How many pay for fire protection

Post 79 and 80

salmonslayer, my opinion, which agreed with yours, was ripped apart on another forum. As a Firefighter, you absolutely told me what I had sought to hear, how a real professional would feel, being forced to watch a fire engulf a house, destroy pets, and also cause an indelible memory of utter heartache for this family for what, a $75 Fee, no it was so the Fire Department could make an example of him (they sure did and it is back-firing). What you spoke of motivating you was Ethical Responsibility and you also have compassion; I applaud you as this is becoming rare as apathy abounds in our Country.

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Christie Acres
www.SequimForLife.com
http://www.irealtyvirtualbrokers.com...lori-christie/
http://luxurywaterviewhomes.com/
SequimLiving@gmail.com

FINALLY!! Thank you! Those in your community are very lucky to have you to count on

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SWF 46

In that case I would not use the equipment from the town but would have used what equipment was available. But then again I guess that you are OK with a policeman that see you speeding out side his jurisdiction and arrest you for having drugs.It is no different. I haven't heard how involved the fire was when they got their. If it was just a outbuilding or if it was so gone that you would have a frame left. I know how fast some trailers burn it is like a chimney lade on its side. I am sure that many firefighters here would help no matter what area they were in. I had one try to help from a town out side of the state and had to restrain him from getting in the way and slowing the response. Fire fighters have a team set up that work to gather and somebody must have trust in that team. It would be hard to stand their an do nothing but sometimes it is the right thing to do. We have only heard one side of the story it may be different when we ever hear the other side. I know that most of us think that you call the fire department and they can put out the fire immanently. That is not the case. If a house any house is fully involved sometimes it is best to let it burn so that you don't have all the ruble to clean up. I am not blaming anybody yet until I hear both sides. This story could be a complete fabrication of the truth. It doesn't matter that Sawmill Jim having heard the same story but did he go to the fire department and hear their story? I don't know. According to the picture it would have done no good for them to fight the fire. I don't know if they have fire plugs in the area or if they would have to call in tankers. I don't know a lot of things. That is why I don't blame anybody.salmonslayer said that one of the fire fighters had quit and others were nauseating at what happened. I had the same thing happen to me. We puled up to a shop fire everybody went to work then I call them back and moved the fire trucks back. Many of the fire fighters looked at me with horror one quit and started to leave when one of the 55 gallons barrels when through the roof and landed in the same place that the fire truck was parked at first. Then it became clear there was more to fighting this fire than just putting water on it. There was 12 barrels of used motor oil stored in the shop we let that burn and saved a near by house when one of the barrels hit it. I know this is a story that doesn't meat the same as letting a house burn but it also is letting you know that some times decisions seem clear only after you hear both sides story.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

That's pretty much how it is here. There are no fees. The VFDs have fundraisers instead. They help each other out. A big fire will have several VFDs respond even when it's out of their normal area.

I knew that there are areas where fees are required, but after reading this topic, it must be much more common than I ever imagined.

My mother once lived in a town where there were fees. A brand new family moved into town, and hadn't learned about the fees. Their house caught fire. The FD came out only to make sure the fire didn't spread to other properties, but they just sat there and watched the house burn.

But what I keep wondering- what happens if there are people trapped in a burning structure on which the fees haven't been paid?

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They would have tough time to keep me from using all resources in the area to save them. I don't care what the policy is when a life is in danger I will do everything possible to save them and so would any other fireman. I can see them not fighting the fire but when a life is in danger I think that every fire fighter will do his best at saving them. When at a fire that was out of mu district but on Mutual aid when I walked by a door of a trailer that was on fire I heard a whimper I used a axe to open the door and a large German Shepard came bounding out. I caught him and treated him for burns and smoke inhalation and gave him Oxygen until he could breath better. I also went to a house fire and people thought somebody was in their. I put on a SCBA and went to fine them. Before I was half the way their the roof collapsed and I went through the floor and kicked my way out from under the house. Then about that time a car drove up and the woman that I was looking for was in the car. We lost a hose in the fire but everybody was OK. I am no hero I think that any fire fighter would have done the same.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

Same here. It's a volunteer fire deptment and they do fund raisers too which we try to pitch in for when we can.

Thank you so much for this post! We just lost our home to a fire back in February along with several of our pets and our car. We forgot to pay our dues last summer but our guys showed up and tried their best to save it. I can not imagine if our son on top of the trauma of watching the house burn (my husband and I were out of state at the time) had been forced to watch it burn while the Fire dept sat at the end of the driveway and watched it go up. I have been in tears over some of the arrogant posts here and elsewhere! you have restored some of my faith in humanity!

Everyone here is assuming if they had fought the fire, it would have all been saved, yet they fought YOUR fire and you still lost it all.

The man's Grandson started the fire that caused it all by leaving a trash fire unattended.
He could have gotten his pets out, and CHOSE not to

Odds are great that by the time the FD arrived on scene, it was too late to "save" anything

His wife isn't blaning the FD, and no one here should be either.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...ocId=D9IML9VO0

It appears to me by the time they got there, it was already beyond saving, and most of the news accounts are sensationalizing (as always)

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

EXACTLY! I can not believe how unneighborly so many people are.

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I can't believe I deleted it!

The news reports I've seen say the fire took two hours to get from the burn barrel to the house. If that's true, the house could easily have been saved at little expense. Both sides were wrong in this story, but emergency workers should hold themselves to a much higher standard. The IAFF (firefighter's union) has condemned the department's decision not to fight the fire, and rightly so. The family is right not to blame the firefighters though. In the fire service it is vitally important to follow orders from superiors. But they have insurance and they have declined offers of help from their community, saying it isn't needed. No one got hurt. Property can be replaced. Memories aren't flammable. All's well that ends well.

I wish it was really all that easy and pain free.....

I didn't mean to say it was easy. Losing your house and family heirlooms and photos and such can be devastating. But it isn't the end of the world.

My information comes from a firefighter related website I subscribe to.

The Cranicks have had 4 fires in the last 10 years and still have managed to NOT pay the subscrition fee. Each year the fire department sends out a letter reminding residents of the rural area of the subscription fee, it is followed up with 3 more letters and 3 phone calls if no subscription fee is sent in. Does anyone still believe that he FORGOT to pay?

The City of South Fulton has NO OBLIGATION to offer fire protection outside the city limits. Obion County offer NO FIRE PROTECTION AT ALL to the rural residents. The City of South Fulton began offering fire protection via subscription to the rural residents. If you pay you get service if you don't you take your chances because you don't get fire protection. It is the property owner's choice. The residents have voted down putting the cost of fire protection on the tax bill.

Now as to the right and wrong of the issue. Is it right for the homeowner to NEVER pay the subscription fee and still expect service? Not in my mind. It takes cold hard cash to run a fire department. You need to pay for personnel, equipment, trucks, maintenance, fuel, building or buildings, training, insurance and dozens of other things I haven't listed. If no one pays how do you budget to pay for those items? If you charge after the fact how long will it be that more decide to gamble and not pay and yet still expect service? Sorry, NO. Mr Cranick knew the risk, played the odds and lost his home. Although reportedly, insurance is covering it all.

It is a crappy position for the fire department to be placed in but the blame lays squarely on the shoulders of the property owner and not the City of South Fulton or the fire department.

Honestly, if I were the fire chief, after this debacle I would stop offering fireprotection outide the city and force the issue with the county over fire protection. It appears to me the county has really dropped the ball here.

I agree completely. The fire department is in a no-win situation with a subscription service. They should tell the county the cost for covering the entire county and the county should vote yes or no and everyone lives with the decision.

Right or wrong, taxes or dues or nada, it never hurts to Know the members of the Volunteer Fire Fighters. I went to school with "Bumpy" and my sisters went with the other five guys. Make a call, anytime, and if the bridges haven't washed away, they're going to drop what they're doing and come do some fire wrassling. They love doing it. We love em for loving it.

In high school, Bumpy and another fella were already Volunteers... one day in study hall, folks were talking lowly amongst themselves... and I was humming away reading some pulp novel. For some reason I did a low slow siren, barely audible. Bumpy and the other guy's ears perked up, they jumped up and ran out the room. Ten minutes later, they came back and said it was a false alarm... I kept my head in the book!

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

I agree when you look at it you see that it takes money to do all these things. I wonder whether the fire department will have enough money it is owed or if not then what they do is put a lean on the property. How many leans can you put on a property and when will they be payed? When as a fire fighter I payed for gas for the truck out of my own pocket to be able to get to the fire because the fire department was broke . How many would have done that? I payed for over 50 gallons and some of the other fire fighters pay for more. That is what made us go to the taxes instead of subscription. Now they have a lot more money to buy things like hoses, equipment and training.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

Unfortunately, you are missing the entire point. Mr Cranick KNOWINGLY, over a course of YEARS, DID NOT PAY the subscription fee, and INCORRECTLY assumed that the firefighters would act OUTSIDE OF CITY POLICY and fight his fires. HE WAS WRONG. Knowing or not knowing the firefighters would have made absolutely NO difference. If they had fought the fire they would have been subject to disciplinary action all the way up to being fired. And for what? A guy who has had 4 fires and STILL NEVER PAID? Sorry not a chance.

I am sure those firefighters love their job, love fighting fires and helping people. But like everyone else there are rules and consequences in life and losing your job for a man who refuses his own responsibility is simply not a fair exchange.

I remember the bad old days of buying parts and equipment out of my own pocket. Did it because I had to, not because it was right. We too are getting far better support for the volly FD from the community and village board.

If I accept what FyredUp wrote, Mr. Crannick hasn't paid the subscription fee for a number of years despite the fact that he has had multiple fires on his property. If that is truly the case then he was basically trying to game the system.

But let's consider a little further. The city had no obligation to do anything about fires in the surrounding county. They made a decision that for the nominal sum of $75 a year they would extend fire service to anyone in the surrounding county. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. In fact, it sounds like a down right bargain compared to having no fire service available at all.

Our local VFD doesn't have a subscription but I'd pay in a heartbeat if they did. They get some money from the county (not a lot) and accept donations. I always make sure to throw some money in when they pass the boot. Those guys put themselves on the line and personally I'm not very sympathetic to Mr. Crannick. He gambled and lost. In fact, I'm going to make an extra donation to our local VFD next time I have the chance.

He and his family ended up with their place burned up and that's a shame. I believe that the right to make decisions includes the right to make poor decisions. That means consequences. FyredUp indicates that this isn't a simple oversight on Mr. Crannicks part. This is not a case of he forgot or was a little late.

The term for saving people after the fact from their poor decisions - and the fact that they know they will be saved from the consequences of their poor decision - is called "moral hazard".

I self insure on my barns. If they burn up I take the loss rather than the insurance company. It's a risk I have chosen to assume. I'm not going to cry later that the insurance company should cover my loss if I decide to try to get insurance as my barn is burning.

If individual neighbors chose to help someone like Mr. Crannick, that is their perogative. To demand that a fire department that normally would not have come to his place anyways has an obligation to him when he refused to pay the subscription fee is nonsense. They came to protect the person next door that paid the subscription fee.

That leaves the question of 911 routing Mr. Crannicks call one place vs the other. If he had truly had 4 fires over the previous years then I have to assume that he already knew where the call would be routed. That being the case he should have kept the direct line to other FDs in the area in the hopes that they would come and pull his chestnuts out of the fire.

I can't find fault with the city FD. Why do I have a feeling that they will get - if they haven't already - a flurry of people deciding the $75 subscription fee is a real bargain after all.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike