How many pay for fire protection

Wendy · #61 10/07/10, 11:07 PM

We pay dues. Actually to 2 different volunteer fire departments. Each of them say we are in their boundries. One is $15 a year, the other is whatever you want to give each year. We send them both $20 each year. Cheap enough & not something I would want to do. I applaud anyone that serves as a fireman. I hope I never have to use their service, but it is still money well spent. They also do several fund raisers every year such as festivals & breakfasts & chicken fries. All for a good cause.

Sawmill Jim · #62 10/07/10, 11:37 PM

As it type they got a big fire in Dukedom Tn seen Dukedom Latham and Parmersville Fire depts there from Tn . Also Ky depts were Cuba and Water Valley these i saw .Think Fulton may of sent a truck don't know about South Fulton as their Chief may still have a sore head

Dukedom Latham ,Parmesvillie an the Ky Dept's are real Volunteer Dept's that don't care if you paid your 75 bucks or not .

Now my revised number of Fire Depts in the 20mile square is up to 13 .

Some these guys on these Dept's would charge the down yonder hot place with a bucket of water And win

Well this was early today haven't been back yet to check it out .

I think this is one they may hang their hat on TCA code 6-21-702

That area makes the laws as they go and the City judge rules .

Few years back their Pd areasted a man on Ky property and took him to Union City where they have jail space . I would do a night in jail for what he got .

Fat Charlie don't have to be a City resident Tn. State laws apply threw out the State . If your Moron mayor and City make stupid laws State an Federal morons are the decider

romysbaskets · #63 10/07/10, 11:39 PM

Here on the island we have first rate Fire Trucks, volunteer Firemen and emergency equipment. There are yearly assessments that cover all the amenities here, including the firehouse and trucks...it is very nice, a well designed golf course (I don't golf, I am the fishing, crabbing, shrimping, clamming kind of girl) a duck pond and older but functional tennis court. We have a great picnic area, a private marina and a large covered area with over 20 picnic tables for events, weddings and such plus the island ferry. All things pertaining to the upkeep and emergencies of the island residents is covered by each one of us in increments based on a property by property basis. If you own more than one house you pay more in assessments. They have fund raisers, a yearly pancake breakfast etc.... You have no choice but have to pay these fees. Everyone does pay them.

If a neighbor's house caught fire, first the siren goes off, the entire island can hear. They all gather at the firehouse for instruction. In the event of a fire of a neighbors home, no neighbor here would hesitate on manning a hose of their own if needed. There are folks here who have not paid their assessments and they are behind. The fire truck must put out their fire regardless and without question!

This man didn't pay for a service, during his emergency he offered to pay. I think they should have taken his money and put it out. These men do a great job for their communities but yes, there is a cost. The article clearly states the man offered to pay for services then and there at the fire itself all expenses. They should have charged him and put it out. I would never watch a neighbor's house burn without trying to help. His reason for not paying prior to is not the issue once they are there and offered full payment for their services. The consequences for this man should have been that he be charged for actual charges versus the $75 he refused to pay before. I can't justify the watching of someone's home burning. I would most likely assume homeowners insurance would include some provisions in their area possibly and might have paid it....who knows? State to state this is different. Here in Washington state it is against the law to ignore someone else's emergency! They could not have refused here! Right or wrong is it law here! Our ferry stopped during a late run one night caused by a storm. They didn't wait for the Coast Guard when our Ferry's Crew saved two lives, folks in the water, no life jackets, boat broken up on the shore! Should the ferry have not saved them because maybe they were late on their assessments? GUESS WHAT, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A HOUSE HERE! They would likely have drowned since the Coast Guard couldn't get there as fast. So you see there are choices in life we make, not all folks agree but maybe......there is a grey area where we can show some compassion for others that don't always make the right choice..... I appreciate every Fireman who risks his life for others, I have nothing but the highest respect for these brave men! This decision was not made by the whole, it was the man in charge! I continue to second the suggestions to support your firemen and respect their position. Many are volunteers in small counties and here!

Old Vet · #64 10/07/10, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkintn

Most (in any) of the VFD's don't charge subscription fees.

I red that to mean that VFD's don't have subscription fees (dues).I guess it is not so. Will you explain that so that I can find what you are saying? Most all citys around here that have a VFD have dues you pay or you pay taxes that covered the fire department. I know of no VFD that have grants that covered the operation. They get grants but it is so small that you can't but a fire truck without spending money that you have. In Arkansas the Forestry Commission supply used military equipment that you will have to be painted and repaired before you can get to a fire and you must pay for them to get it to where you need it from where they find it.

ChristieAcres · #65 10/08/10, 04:30 AM

Our property taxes pay for our services, including fire. We have both paid and volunteer Firefighters (proper term for both men/women).

The homeowner should have been punished financially for not paying his $75 fee, like as in, being charged for the cost of putting out the fire, instead of watching it be engulfed in flames. The higher ups are gonna see consequences for not permitting their Firefighters to do their jobs! Also, one Firefighter was attacked afterward. I don't blame the Firefighters, who are on orders, but the authority above them for making a very foolish choice simply to "make an example" out of this schmuck. Did he deserve to watch his home go up in flames, with all they owned inside, including their pets? I don't think so, but wonder why he didn't lift a finger himself.

I am sure glad I don't live there! I'll stay right where I am

rkintn · #66 10/08/10, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Vet

I red that to mean that VFD's don't have subscription fees (dues).I guess it is not so. Will you explain that so that I can find what you are saying? Most all citys around here that have a VFD have dues you pay or you pay taxes that covered the fire department. I know of no VFD that have grants that covered the operation. They get grants but it is so small that you can't but a fire truck without spending money that you have. In Arkansas the Forestry Commission supply used military equipment that you will have to be painted and repaired before you can get to a fire and you must pay for them to get it to where you need it from where they find it.

It means that the Volunteer Fire Departments do not charge fees or dues like the City of South Fulton FD. All the VFDs that I know of will respond and take action whenever they are called. Paying taxes and paying dues are two totally different things.

I totally do not understand how a firefighter could just stand by and watch a house burn to the ground. To me, that would be like a police officer standing by and doing nothing while a crime was being committed in front of him. There are ethical obligations whenever you are in a position of public servant.

Fat Charlie · #67 10/08/10, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Fat Charlie don't have to be a City resident Tn. State laws apply threw out the State . If your Moron mayor and City make stupid laws State an Federal morons are the decider

Does state law require cities to provide fire protection to unincorporated areas? If it does, does the state help out or is it just an unfunded mandate?

ChristieAcres · #68 10/08/10, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkintn

It means that the Volunteer Fire Departments do not charge fees or dues like the City of South Fulton FD. All the VFDs that I know of will respond and take action whenever they are called. Paying taxes and paying dues are two totally different things.

I totally do not understand how a firefighter could just stand by and watch a house burn to the ground. To me, that would be like a police officer standing by and doing nothing while a crime was being committed in front of him. There are ethical obligations whenever you are in a position of public servant.

I concur and agree with you, but the Firefighters were strictly forbidden to use the Firetruck/Equipment once there by Fire Department management. They could have lost their jobs for disobeying. No, I cannot imagine a Firefighter watching a fire burn down a house no more than I can imagine watching a Police Officer watch a crime, doing nothing. Yes, this truly had more to do with ethical obligations, a failure of such. The $75 fee? Hmmm, was it really worth a home and pets being destroyed... Guess they really proved their point. That was certainly accomplished.

garyinmississip · #69 10/08/10, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thequeensblessing

Pay as you go type of service is when you pay for something after you receive a service. This sounds so much like mafia-type "protection money". You pay a set fee every month or so and they will protect you. Otherwise, no promises! Yes, it's legal, but is it ethical? I can't wrap my brain around that.
We pay taxes that include fire response, make donations on fund drives, and donate to and attend VFD auctions. I'd be irritated if they added a "fee" on top of that. But if they do, I'll pay the fee, but they won't be getting all the other cash from me that they currently get.

thequeensblessing, Do you pay mafia-type protection money to your automobile insurance company or do you pay for repairs after you have an accident? What about home or life insurance? This is no different. Mafia-type protection money is where they say, "you pay us or WE will destroy your property." The fire department did not destroy the house, the man's grandson did. I think you are out of line here for accusing the fire department this way.

The owner did not "forget" to pay. He CHOSE NOT to pay. From what I read, the city sent out multiple notices to those outside the city to remind them of the $75 fee and even followed up with phone calls. The owner had ample opportunity to pay but did not. He gambled and he lost. I'm sorry that he lost his house but it was his fault, not the fire department's.

I understand the house was a single (double?) wide. These types of structures are consumed by fire very quickly. It is entirely possible that the department determined that the structure could not be saved and conserved their resources for use on what could be saved--the surrounding buildings.

I'm actually surprised at the responses of some on this board. Most of us talk about being self sufficient and taking responsibility for our own actions. But now many are excoriating the fire department for doing what it legally had to do.

How many of us who put away food will give that food to those who did not save any food when TSHTF?

texican · #70 10/08/10, 01:38 PM

I pay a few cents per mil for a local fire district... they help support the local volunteer fire departments... haven't figured this years taxes, but it's got to be around $20.

I know several of the volunteers.... went to school with one... I do believe they'd "pay" us for fighting fires... they love it so much. However, it does cost money for hoses and fuel and whatnot. Since I've had to call em to come down and fight neighbors fires, I don't begrudge em a little tax money.

ChristieAcres · #71 10/08/10, 01:55 PM

What is lost in the thread, I believe, is a matter of ethical responsibility, making the Firefighters look like villains (they weren't). I think having our services paid for via our property taxes is a lot better. Also, other areas have assessments. You don't pay, you get a lien. Houses don't burn down. I thought this was a good way to handle that. It sounds like the community disallowed an assessment or inclusion, which would have raised their taxes, so ended up with this scenario of paying a yearly fee instead. Still a sad deal for the Firefighters, no matter what everyone's opinions are.

We come from all different states and viewpoints based on our own unique communities. I like how it is handled here much better.

Sonshine · #72 10/08/10, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyinmississip

thequeensblessing, Do you pay mafia-type protection money to your automobile insurance company or do you pay for repairs after you have an accident? What about home or life insurance? This is no different. Mafia-type protection money is where they say, "you pay us or WE will destroy your property." The fire department did not destroy the house, the man's grandson did. I think you are out of line here for accusing the fire department this way.

The owner did not "forget" to pay. He CHOSE NOT to pay. From what I read, the city sent out multiple notices to those outside the city to remind them of the $75 fee and even followed up with phone calls. The owner had ample opportunity to pay but did not. He gambled and he lost. I'm sorry that he lost his house but it was his fault, not the fire department's.

I understand the house was a single (double?) wide. These types of structures are consumed by fire very quickly. It is entirely possible that the department determined that the structure could not be saved and conserved their resources for use on what could be saved--the surrounding buildings.

I'm actually surprised at the responses of some on this board. Most of us talk about being self sufficient and taking responsibility for our own actions. But now many are excoriating the fire department for doing what it legally had to do.

How many of us who put away food will give that food to those who did not save any food when TSHTF?

If i have food and my neighbor is starving, I would share, with the understanding that we work together to grow more food. I agree, it was a mafia type FD. What ever happened to going into these types of careers because you have a desire to help mankind? To me it was a slap in the face for them to go and then do nothing. Why did they even waste the gas to go? So they could protect the surrounding buildings? They could have protected them better by putting out the original fire.

Sonshine · #73 10/08/10, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

I pay a few cents per mil for a local fire district... they help support the local volunteer fire departments... haven't figured this years taxes, but it's got to be around $20.

I know several of the volunteers.... went to school with one... I do believe they'd "pay" us for fighting fires... they love it so much. However, it does cost money for hoses and fuel and whatnot. Since I've had to call em to come down and fight neighbors fires, I don't begrudge em a little tax money.

Tax money I agree with. We all pay taxes and that should cover the costs of protection. So where's the tax money this family payed in?

Old Vet · #74 10/08/10, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

Tax money I agree with. We all pay taxes and that should cover the costs of protection. So where's the tax money this family payed in?

What tax money are you talking about? Just because you pay a tax for income or personal property or real estate tax there may not be a fire tax. Many fire departments have dues like this one it is $75 per year. I pay my dues of $35 dollars per year for one house and another $35 for another house. The government is not there to pay for everything. How many think that it will pay for automobile insurance it is the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkintn

It means that the Volunteer Fire Departments do not charge fees or dues like the City of South Fulton FD. All the VFDs that I know of will respond and take action whenever they are called. Paying taxes and paying dues are two totally different things.

I totally do not understand how a firefighter could just stand by and watch a house burn to the ground. To me, that would be like a police officer standing by and doing nothing while a crime was being committed in front of him. There are ethical obligations whenever you are in a position of public servant.

I could not have stood their and let it burn unless it was fully involved when I got there. I used to be the Safety Officer on my fire department it was my job to sit back and watch the fire and some time I would pull everything back and let it burn because of safety concerns. I was the only person that could over ride the chief in letting it burn and I did it some times.

Sawmill Jim · #75 10/08/10, 04:09 PM

At the start it was an out building burning their garden hose was not good enough . Tn has a responsibility law for all EMS depts . As i said before i know the whole flock around South Fulton .

Couldn't pay me to live there .

garyinmississip · #76 10/08/10, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

Why did they even waste the gas to go? So they could protect the surrounding buildings? They could have protected them better by putting out the original fire.

The "wasted" the gas to go because they got a call from the neighbor who did pay his fee. According to the article, they did not respond to the call from the homeowner because, as a non-subscriber, he was outside their jurisdiction. It would be no different than if they got a call from someone in the next town over. It would be outside their jurisdiction and they could not respond unless requested by someone with authority to make such a request (perhaps the neighboring FD, if an agreement existed). When the neighbor reported that his property was being threatened, they responded and protected that property.

So when the SHTF and all these people without food start showing up at your door because they know you have food, you will share your remaining food with them?

I'm really sorry that the man lost his trailer but I do not believe the FD is in any way responsible here. The man let his grandson play with fire without proper supervision and too close to the house and he failed to pay the required fee for fire protection. He gambled and he lost. I'm really sorry for his loss but it is his fault and his alone.

As I and others have said before, trailer homes burn very quickly and the man was outside the city limits (how far, I don't know). We haven't had statements from the fire department but it is possible and probable that the structure could not have been saved and the prudent thing to do was to protect the surrounding property.

watcher · #77 10/08/10, 05:09 PM

As I have mentioned in the thread in GC there is something being missed here. Every one in the county knew the rule/law and have done nothing about it. That means they gave the system their passive support. If they didn't like the system they could have demanded it be changed and voted to have it changed. Its their county and I think they have the right to have the rules/laws they want. Neither you nor I have any right to say they should or must change the system they have.

Old Vet · #78 10/08/10, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watcher

As I have mentioned in the thread in GC there is something being missed here. Every one in the county knew the rule/law and have done nothing about it. That means they gave the system their passive support. If they didn't like the system they could have demanded it be changed and voted to have it changed. Its their county and I think they have the right to have the rules/laws they want. Neither you nor I have any right to say they should or must change the system they have.

Of course we do they should pay the taxes and everything should be covered. That is the way many here feel so why not. I wouldn't like it if somebody else would do it in my county. I don't even like the health care provision because it is non of their business. But now days it doesn't matter you get things that are not right in my mind because others think it is OK.

salmonslayer · #79 10/08/10, 10:17 PM

Quote:

I think a big part of the argument is that there are several VFD's in the area that would have responded and put out the fire, but the 911 system would not route the call to them instead it routed it to the nearest town, South Fulton. Why didn't the town call a VFD of they KNEW they weren't going to help the guy? Sure, they had no legal obligation but ethically, I think they can be held liable for that. I for one hope the guy hires a lawyer and looks into his options. It may just very well save someone else from this disaster.

Because no matter how you look at it or what you may think about him not paying the fee...THSHTF for that guy and now he is out of a home, belongings, memories and peace of mind. It's just wrong.

I couldnt agree more. I am a volunteer firefighter and first responder and we pay $50.00 a year as part of our association, how much taxes do we receive...zero. We are a non-profit entity. Our members list is updated whenever the volunteer secretary/treasurer gets around to it and I sure wouldnt want to bet someones home on a clerical error. We dont even look at our members list, the bean counters do that after the fact when they look at billing the person if needed.

I dont blame the firefighters and neither does Mr Crannick, he relates that several of them were physically sick over what they were ordered to do, one has quit, and I suspect that the morale burst and public scorn heaped on this department and the city of South Fulton administaration will cause others to leave either voluntarily or unvoluntarily.

What in the heck is wrong with some of you that you have no concept of humanity and compassion? Was this guy negligent? Yes!! But do you really think its appropriate for his wife, kids, and the three dead animals to pay for his negligence? Good grief.

I would expect that homesteaders, even if you hated the guy, would band together as neighbors and put the freaking fire out. And I wonder if the home was a fancy expensive mansion owned by somneone with political clout would it have just been left to burn.

I am glad so many of you are so perfect that you have never made a mistake, maybe the next time I roll on an auto accident where I am dealing with the consequences of drinking, or poorly maintained equipment, or speeding I should just let you die becuase you didnt exercise personal responsibility. Maybe some of you just havent figured out that the reason most fire departments and first responders even exist is because people dont always exercise "personal responsibility"

This was a disgrace to all involved and thankfully the reason its in the national news is because its so unusual. I took an oath when I became a fire fighter and the oath didnt include extorsion or protection rackets. Please let me know who you are that thinks this was the right thing to do so I dont inadvertantly move to your neck of the woods.

Sonshine · #80 10/08/10, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salmonslayer

I couldnt agree more. I am a volunteer firefighter and first responder and we pay $50.00 a year as part of our association, how much taxes do we receive...zero. We are a non-profit entity. Our members list is updated whenever the volunteer secretary/treasurer gets around to it and I sure wouldnt want to bet someones home on a clerical error. We dont even look at our members list, the bean counters do that after the fact when they look at billing the person if needed.

I dont blame the firefighters and neither does Mr Crannick, he relates that several of them were physically sick over what they were ordered to do, one has quit, and I suspect that the morale burst and public scorn heaped on this department and the city of South Fulton administaration will cause others to leave either voluntarily or unvoluntarily.

What in the heck is wrong with some of you that you have no concept of humanity and compassion? Was this guy negligent? Yes!! But do you really think its appropriate for his wife, kids, and the three dead animals to pay for his negligence? Good grief.

I would expect that homesteaders, even if you hated the guy, would band together as neighbors and put the freaking fire out. And I wonder if the home was a fancy expensive mansion owned by somneone with political clout would it have just been left to burn.

I am glad so many of you are so perfect that you have never made a mistake, maybe the next time I roll on an auto accident where I am dealing with the consequences of drinking, or poorly maintained equipment, or speeding I should just let you die becuase you didnt exercise personal responsibility. Maybe some of you just havent figured out that the reason most fire departments and first responders even exist is because people dont always exercise "personal responsibility"

This was a disgrace to all involved and thankfully the reason its in the national news is because its so unusual. I took an oath when I became a fire fighter and the oath didnt include extorsion or protection rackets. Please let me know who you are that thinks this was the right thing to do so I dont inadvertantly move to your neck of the woods.

Yes, yes and yes! I just don't get people these days. There is no humanity left, it's all about the almighty dollar.