coyotes ....again

Ruby · #81 10/05/10, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf mom

Yup - fearmongering.

Used to be you fenced to keep creatures OUT. Now it appears that humans are entitled and don't need to do that anymore.

Those that say coyotes & wolves kill sheep & other animals - I'd agree -

BUT two things: if you have those animals, isn't it your responsibility to care for them by whatever means including fencing?

Secondly, if you watch their kill (unless they are in your non-secure area), they kill the weak and infirm thereby preserving the best DNA to be passed on through generations.

But, then....

Where we live I have 2 1/3 acres. All except some of the side next to the road is fenced. I have my front and part of my back completely fenced. The coyote come up to my front yard fenced because it buts up to a vacant 5 acre lot. They ALMOST killed one of my dogs by spreading WHIP worms. Coyotes carry them and the vet said they will migrate from one area to another. My dogs have never been out of our yard except to go to the vet ore groomers. Peanut was so sick from the whips that if the weekend had lasted one more day she would have died.

I WILL shoot any that I see from now on. We have seen them in daylight walking the fence line.

wendle · #82 10/05/10, 03:15 PM

Hunting coyotes in this area is legal, and they are very thick, even after hunters go through. Not sure if there is a particular season , but I know you can get a permit to hunt if you are having troubles with any. It doesn't seem to make a difference in their numbers. There is quite a lot of fields and woodland to make nice habitat for them . Even with good habitat and plenty of natural food they will still kill livestock, dogs and cats. I suspect they don't realize those are not wild animals, so not supposed to be on their menu. They are not limited to killing the weak, ask anybody who has lost perfectly healthy sheep or dogs.
Because of problems here I have to have a lgd . I don't let my border collies out wandering unattended. My 12 year old daughter carries a cell phone, and doesn't go hiking by herself.
The coyotes respect my lgd so far, if things changed and they were getting by him, or attacking him, you bet I would be sitting up nights hunting them. For now we seem to coexist just fine.

Patt · #83 10/05/10, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby

Where we live I have 2 1/3 acres. All except some of the side next to the road is fenced. I have my front and part of my back completely fenced. The coyote come up to my front yard fenced because it buts up to a vacant 5 acre lot. They ALMOST killed one of my dogs by spreading WHIP worms. Coyotes carry them and the vet said they will migrate from one area to another. My dogs have never been out of our yard except to go to the vet ore groomers. Peanut was so sick from the whips that if the weekend had lasted one more day she would have died.

I WILL shoot any that I see from now on. We have seen them in daylight walking the fence line.

Interesting thinking....I suppose you will have to kill all wildlife and birds in a 5 mile radius from you if you want to keep any parasites from being brought into your yard......

tinknal · #84 10/05/10, 04:21 PM

If you really are a "homesteader" trapping and hunting coyotes makes perfect sense. Taken when the hides are prime they are simply another crop to be harvested. No different than harvesting your tomatoes, butchering your hogs, gathering eggs, or hunting deer.

ThisLittlePiggy · #85 10/05/10, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65284

Easy solution, pack heat and quit worrying.

Amen. Things are out of balance these days. Yes, coyotes are a part of nature and we should respect the entire natural world but the truth is we are a part of nature too and we have to demand their respect. In the end respect is a function of cause and effect. I respect the coyote’s ability to hurt my child, pets, stock because they have demonstrated that they will do so if I don’t take a stand. If I want them to respect me I have to demonstrate that I am also dangerous because as predators that is what they respect. You can’t be nice enough to a predator to make it stop being a predator. True kindness is to remove the ones that don’t respect human boundaries so that we aren’t forced to remove all of them.

When my sons were small we lived on a mountain top. There were bears but I had a large pack of dogs and kept my garbage / feed up where they couldn’t get at it so it was safe for my sons to play outside. Then a LA hippy decided she wanted to experience the “On Waldon Pond” thing and built a geodesic dome across the road. Her version of communing with nature included scattering dog food in her yard to feed the bears. Needless to say they became a problem and my kids couldn’t play outside anymore. So I did what I had to do and put out the word that I needed people to hunt bear on my land. End of the “bear problem” except there never was a “bear problem” there was a human problem. Frankly I preferred the bears to the neighbor but you can’t shoot your neighbor for being stupid so the bears had to pay for her actions.

What happened with the bears is true with the coyotes as well. People leave out pet food, trash and yes even live bait in the form of pets so it is a given that they will be attracted to our homes. You can’t shoot your neighbors for being stupid so you have to shoot the coyotes. We can live in harmony with nature IF we are smart and respect animals for what they are. Predators are predators and they are supposed to be dangerous. So are we. That IS balance. End of story.

jen74145 · #86 10/05/10, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meanwhile

I am not a coyote fan and we have a terrible problem with them here. They eat up Kitty Cats and several years ago even snatched a little dog from an elderly man. We use fire crackers to try and scare them off but for the most part we just lock up our cats/dogs at night, in the barn and we have flood lights all around the barn plus we cleared a complete circle around the back side of the barn so there is no where for the coyote to hide.

I will share this story that happened here two years ago:
We had heard the coyote more than usual. It was scary. Everyone for miles around were talking about it. I even tried to find a trapper and another neighbor tried to hide and shoot them. A neighbor even saw coyote over an embankment watching his grandchildren so basically the whole area was watching and trying to be more careful.

One night, we did not hear any coyote. It was odd. The next night, we did not hear them. Same the third night. Neighbors started calling each other to ask who had heard the coyote lately. We were all very happy we were not hearing them for a change.

Then, a neighbor called to tell me that other neighbors suspected that a "summer man" (people who have a house up here but do not live here / they live away in Cities) had set out poison way out in the Water Sheds land. He said they thought the coyote had been poisoned and that was why we did not hear them.

I had very mixed feelings about this report. Poison is a very bad way to die. Also, other animals will get in the poison and if Bear or any other animal eat the coyote body, they could die too from the poison. One of our dogs had to rush to the Vet that same year due to eating something bad the Vet said had poison in it.

Sorry this is too long but.......we missed the Coyote howling. Their sounds had become part of us and part of living here. I did not like it knowing that some Coward had taken poison out there to kill wild things including the Coyote.

I know that sounds "two faced" that I would be OK with someone shooting them but not for the poison.

In any case - we have learned to live with the Coyote and sometimes enjoy their Howling. We do take precautions and we help neighbors who need to learn more about how to lock and fence.

Stay safe.

Yeah, I hate poison too.

Nothing should die like that.

As far as why I don't... "pack heat"... I have my reasons. Seriously folks. You're not dumb enough to think the idea had never occured to me. No reason to be rude. Go play outside or something, get your crankiness out.

fantasymaker · #87 10/05/10, 09:25 PM

LOL And just how many of you have actually seen a coyote or wolf take live stock?
EVERY Time Ive tracked down one ofthese cases its been a dog....EVERYTIME.
No I dont think coyotes dont ever mess with stock Im just surprized at how often they dont and its blamed on them.

Txrider · #88 10/05/10, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendle

Hunting coyotes in this area is legal, and they are very thick, even after hunters go through. Not sure if there is a particular season , but I know you can get a permit to hunt if you are having troubles with any. It doesn't seem to make a difference in their numbers.

It is more than legal here, they pay a $10 bounty per coyote..

In south Texas they have had issues for years with Coyotes bringing in Rabies from Mexico. They have been baiting with oral rabies vaccine for years.

Txrider · #89 10/05/10, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

LOL And just how many of you have actually seen a coyote or wolf take live stock?
EVERY Time Ive tracked down one ofthese cases its been a dog....EVERYTIME.
No I dont think coyotes dont ever mess with stock Im just surprized at how often they dont and its blamed on them.

Well in my case the livestock was a dog, a nice big 100+ lb dog... just wandered too far away from the house at night to go out after a pup and a pack of them took her and the pup.

They used to come up and stare through the cattle gate about 100yds from the house nightly..

With goats and sheep I can see them getting in trouble, not so much with larger livestock.

Lyra · #90 10/05/10, 10:26 PM

Of course the wolves get blamed for everything. They act like uncivilized wild creatures foraging for food. No respect at all for humans and their fences. Their behavior is atrocious. Wolves ignore the fact that humans rule the world. Humans need to put wolves in their place.

Txrider · #91 10/05/10, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

Of course the wolves get blamed for everything. They act like uncivilized wild creatures foraging for food. No respect at all for humans and their fences. Their behavior is atrocious. Wolves ignore the fact that humans rule the world. Humans need to put wolves in their place.

Not at all, but a wolf that messes around in a bear den, gets too close to a bull moose, a mountain loin etc. gets killed.. Just as a wolf who gets into an apex predators territory like humans will be killed.

The wolf will act similarly to protect it's territory vs a smaller predator and think absolutely nothing of it, even if it killed the very last of a species..

A wolf and a coyote are competing predators, nothing more, and stronger and larger competing predators routinely kill each smaller ones.

It is natures way.

JasoninMN · #92 10/05/10, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Not at all, but a wolf that messes around in a bear den, gets too close to a bull moose, a mountain loin etc. gets killed.. Just as a wolf who gets into an apex predators territory like humans will be killed.

Wolves prey regularly on moose and bear.

whiterock · #93 10/05/10, 11:38 PM

I have seen coyotes attacking cows with new born calves, they will chew off the tails and ears, and while keeping the cow occupied, will kill the calf. One stole a lamb from me one day with my daughter standing on the other side of the fence.
Ed

mtnbluet881 · #94 10/05/10, 11:55 PM

Inside the city limits I saw a coyote the other day. It came across the road right in my headlights and looked like a bunch of sticks walking. Such a scranny thing, but fast. I knew immediately that it was a coyote. Reminded me of a deer, only smaller.

Now it was on the other side of the river from me, and I do hope it stays there. However, if it would kill some of the woodchucks, I wouldn't mind. Someone gave me a small rue plant and a woodchuck ate 99% of the plant. I hope she has another one. I had it on top of an enclosure. It must have crawled right on top. Ate my lamb's ears too, but those I have replaced.

I have never heard of any confrontations of humans with coyotes. However, a person was walking his dogs along a hiking path in Western Illinois one year ago that he always goes on. Well, a coyote barred his fangs at him a liitle distance away from him near the path and so they turned around and did not take that path that day. He found that very odd and I found it rather scary, but have not experienced it.

Common Tator · #95 10/06/10, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnbluet881

I have never heard of any confrontations of humans with coyotes.

This article tells of two incidents of coyotes biting children, including one where the coyote was dragging the child away.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354054,00.html

This article discusses a number of attacks. All of them that were discussed were attacks on very small children.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/s...5.20f599a.html

tinknal · #96 10/06/10, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasoninMN

Wolves prey regularly on moose and bear.

True, but an unwary wolf around a healthy adult bear or moose is either getting a new one ripped, or is getting stomped into a puddle of mud.

tinknal · #97 10/06/10, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

Of course the wolves get blamed for everything. They act like uncivilized wild creatures foraging for food. No respect at all for humans and their fences. Their behavior is atrocious. Wolves ignore the fact that humans rule the world. Humans need to put wolves in their place.

When it comes to wolves there are two kind of people. The first are folks who see them as a normal part of the natural world. Like all other animals neither good nor evil. These people recognize that wolves have a place in this world and believe that as long as wolves keep to the wild they should be left alone. They also recognize that when wolf numbers get out of balance with the ecosystem that they can become a problem and some of them need to be killed.

The second kind of person emotionalizes the issue and believe that either

A. No wolf should ever be killed

OR,

B. Every wolf should be killed

They anthropomorphise wolves into either evil entities, or noble symbols. They are neither. They are just another species among millions.

Txrider · #98 10/06/10, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasoninMN

Wolves prey regularly on moose and bear.

As do we also.. But wolves usually take the weak, old, and very young.

LisaInN.Idaho · #99 10/06/10, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

When it comes to wolves there are two kind of people. The first are folks who see them as a normal part of the natural world. Like all other animals neither good nor evil. These people recognize that wolves have a place in this world and believe that as long as wolves keep to the wild they should be left alone. They also recognize that when wolf numbers get out of balance with the ecosystem that they can become a problem and some of them need to be killed.

The second kind of person emotionalizes the issue and believe that either

A. No wolf should ever be killed

OR,

B. Every wolf should be killed

They anthropomorphise wolves into either evil entities, or noble symbols. They are neither. They are just another species among millions.

There are also the kind of people who realize that wolves have become a political hot button powered by the hunting and ranching lobbies which are quite powerful in the western states and spend a lot of money trying to get their competition for elk or anything that jeopardizes their use of public lands for grazing their cattle or sheep... eliminated. They have no problems skewing the statistics in favor of their position. Just like any other special interest group.

Txrider · #**100** 10/06/10, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

When it comes to wolves there are two kind of people. The first are folks who see them as a normal part of the natural world. Like all other animals neither good nor evil. These people recognize that wolves have a place in this world and believe that as long as wolves keep to the wild they should be left alone. They also recognize that when wolf numbers get out of balance with the ecosystem that they can become a problem and some of them need to be killed.

The second kind of person emotionalizes the issue and believe that either

A. No wolf should ever be killed

OR,

B. Every wolf should be killed

They anthropomorphise wolves into either evil entities, or noble symbols. They are neither. They are just another species among millions.

And then there's people who view humans as somehow apart from nature.. As if we weren't created and along with everything else on the planet and just much a natural part of the order of things as any other creature.

We're just the only animal that feels guilty about killing another animal, and thinks about the long term ramifications of doing so.

And people who somehow think the world should not ever change, that despite millions of years of every creature alive going extinct in it's turn, that somehow the current natural world will stay as it is forever more, or should, that somehow we can prevent that from occurring.

Wolves have evolved and adapted and succeeded exponentially well, they evolved into dogs and adapted a symbiotic relationship with the apex predator.. The wolf and coyote may well be like the neanderthal that came before humans, with a similar destiny. What is certain is that no creature on this planet has ever survived as a species forever without change including us.