coyotes ....again

Lyra is right of course. We are a harmful invasive species. We are greedy and we take far more than we need. We kill for sport and entertainment. We have destroyed ecosystems and left how many plants and animals extinct now? That is honest reality and we do well to face it.

On the other hand those of us who are responsible have to look at the situation around us and try to balance out the mess we as humans have made. In my area coyotes are doing just fine, we coexist in peace here. In your area you may need to thin their packs because a bullet is far kinder than nature's method of slow starvation. But that does not mean it gives you the right to shoot every single coyote on sight just because they are a coyote. There has to be a balance there and above all there has to be responsibility and we have to look at the bigger picture that is our local ecosystem.

You also have a responsibility to care for the animals you own and that means secure fences and coops and barns. If you can't create a secure environment for your animals you shouldn't have any. And if you choose not to create a secure environment for them then you can't blame the predators for snagging the occasional easy meal.

If you are a true homesteader and you are where you are because you love the land and nature you know this already I am sure.

One other thought: if you have coyotes coming up to your house they may be looking for water. We have friends who had their watermelon patch destroyed by coyotes and other animals. And that was with a flock of sheep right in the next pasture so it wasn't food they were looking for. Our friends put a strand of hot wire on the garden and put half barrels of water outside it. Problem solved. We usually have anywhere up to 6 weeks straight here in late summer with no rain and water sources dry up.

Coyotes are not pleasant creatures, that's for sure. They get even worse if they cross with wild dogs, too. We don't have any problem with them; the pyranese keep them away, and forgive that misspelling. I hear them, yapping and howling all around, but not on our farm. A most unpleasant sound, I must say.
As for humans being an invasive species, well, we don't have to be... We can choose to live in symbiosis, or lord over nature. You can't cast the whole species into this light... Only most.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

I agree with Lyra about humans being an invasive destructive species. Look at the extinction rate of other species happening all around us and you can't avoid coming to the same conclusion.

We have an opportunity to live on the interest of the ecosystems that are still partially intact but I don't think we have the wisdom despite having the knowledge.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

It's been fairly well established that there is nothing that humans can do to control coyote numbers. It has been shown that when coyote numbers are low they have large litters and when they are high they have small litters.

Killing coyotes really has no effect on the number of coyotes, but it does keep them wild. The net result of NOT killing problem coyotes is just to create a welfare class of coyotes that depends on humans for their existence. This to me is far more cruel and reprehensible than killing the occasional coyote that gets too familiar. If you want to create a class of garbage coyotes by all means, go ahead but if they show up around here I'm gonna make a hat out of them.

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Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

Most of the problems we have with coyotes today was caused by the gov. trying to control and destroy them.

Years ago the coyote ate mostly carrion. The number that hunted animals were a small percentage. The gov decided it would poison them. Dead animals were laced with poison and poison baits were dropped from planes. The coyotes who usually ate carrion were soon destroyed leaving those who fed on live animals. These type of coyotes evolved into what we see today. The coyotes of today will still eat carrion but are much more likely to hunt down animals for their main diet.

We have been here 5 years now, right next to town and 2 weeks ago, a coyote got one of ours lambs. WE have definitely gone on the offensive. I am for live and let live only if they are not eating my stock or pets or anyboy else's around me. When the crops are out, we plan to clean this family out. If some new coyotes move in, it is unlikely that they will be stock eating coyotes.

I run out at all hours of the night, sometimes ATV, with a spot light and a gun. We are calling and baiting too. AS far as I am concerned, they started it.

Wolves are horrible. Only fools would tolerate wolves anywhere near them. I have no doubt, lover of wolves, that you will become intimately acquainted with them! And a tree will fall on your far fenceline and then you'll be hit where it makes an impression- in your wallet!

I would think that hat could get a tad smelly when wet.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

Then you obviously never heard of a tanned fur. Most parka hoods that are trimmed with fur are coyote. No smell at all when properly tanned. If you look around the forum I believe that you will see a photo of our own humble moderator wearing a coyote hat.

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Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

I am not a coyote fan and we have a terrible problem with them here. They eat up Kitty Cats and several years ago even snatched a little dog from an elderly man. We use fire crackers to try and scare them off but for the most part we just lock up our cats/dogs at night, in the barn and we have flood lights all around the barn plus we cleared a complete circle around the back side of the barn so there is no where for the coyote to hide.

I will share this story that happened here two years ago:
We had heard the coyote more than usual. It was scary. Everyone for miles around were talking about it. I even tried to find a trapper and another neighbor tried to hide and shoot them. A neighbor even saw coyote over an embankment watching his grandchildren so basically the whole area was watching and trying to be more careful.

One night, we did not hear any coyote. It was odd. The next night, we did not hear them. Same the third night. Neighbors started calling each other to ask who had heard the coyote lately. We were all very happy we were not hearing them for a change.

Then, a neighbor called to tell me that other neighbors suspected that a "summer man" (people who have a house up here but do not live here / they live away in Cities) had set out poison way out in the Water Sheds land. He said they thought the coyote had been poisoned and that was why we did not hear them.

I had very mixed feelings about this report. Poison is a very bad way to die. Also, other animals will get in the poison and if Bear or any other animal eat the coyote body, they could die too from the poison. One of our dogs had to rush to the Vet that same year due to eating something bad the Vet said had poison in it.

Sorry this is too long but.......we missed the Coyote howling. Their sounds had become part of us and part of living here. I did not like it knowing that some Coward had taken poison out there to kill wild things including the Coyote.

I know that sounds "two faced" that I would be OK with someone shooting them but not for the poison.

In any case - we have learned to live with the Coyote and sometimes enjoy their Howling. We do take precautions and we help neighbors who need to learn more about how to lock and fence.

Stay safe.

I hear them howl out in central Texas, if you can call it howling.

I was wondering how many were going to be around the place I bought a couple of months ago and found out when I took a week off to go work on the place last week. I was sitting around at night after cooking some supper on an open fire.

Heard a pack of them north a few miles start up, got every dog within earshot going as well. They went on for 20-30 minutes, getting closer then quiet.. Then a little I heard the two Pyrenees that live with a sheep herd about a half mile to my east go off on something for about 20 minutes, I suspect the coyotes got quiet when they got somewhere near that place.

Then a while after the Pyrenees quieted down another dog or two started up about a half mile south of me, more goats and such down there... then back to quiet you could hear for miles..

Got me to thinking my place with no fence and nobody there for the last 6 years was likely the perfect land for em to come south through so I might be seeing a lot more of them in time when I move down there.

Umm excuse me I regularly read home tanning books and plan on doing some myself. Why are you so rude?

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

Those of us who actually live in wolf country live and tolerate them. Believe it or not we do have farms in Minnesota and we also have the largest wolf population in the lower 48. All of the anti wolf B.S. coming out of the west is 99% political anti wolf propaganda not truth or facts. Do you see Canada crying wolf all the time? No and they have more wolves then anybody. They farm there too, imagine that, life goes on with wolves. I have wolves on my property and have never lost a livestock animal to one. Wolves are not anymore evil then any other animal on this planet. They have just been demonized by our culture in childhood fairy tales and some people can't get over that fear as adults. With wolves and coyotes, the only pattern I see of regular predation is people who let their pets run loose in the country unsupervised, keep their livestock in poorly constructed fences and shelters or allow their animals to birth out on range. They are the ones that get preyed on regularly because of their animal husbandry skills. Shoot and kill all the animals you want but its not going to solve the problem, you will loose more livestock when the next ones move in and the cycle goes on.

I guess I can say I am pretty well acquainted with wolves. I was close enough to this one to see up his nostrils....

Now I am a eco-wacko, bunny smoocher, tree hugging fool!

Simmer down, now, they didn't get the wet dog joke.
Ed

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"Agriculture is our wisest pursuit, because it will in the end contribute most to real wealth, good morals, and happiness."
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1787

Welcome to the club.

I'm in wolf country too and have no problems with them. I agree 100 percent.

Since they're protected by federal law, what exactly are you proposing?

What we need is to reinstill the fear of man into the wolves. I'd like to see a tightly controlled season on them now that they are maxing out their population capacity.

A friend was hunting grouse last year and had a wolf chase his dog so close to him that he was able to hit it with his hat. He thought it was a young wolf.

He also listened to a pack of wolves kill a neighbor lab that strayed too far from home. He said it went on for several minutes.

If a wolf comes after my dog while I'm hunting this fall I will shoot it without hesitation.

Personally I'm glad their back in our woods.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Not at all. A bullet tends to make for a quick and painless death, poison is a horrible way to go and it affects too many other animals. The person who did that was irresponsible and what they did was probably illegal too if it was on government land.

I do agree that it is time for a controlled season in MN. I would like to see them become a respected game animal in the state. If they had more of a economic value like other game animals it would help change their image. My guess would be when a season does come, it will be a once in a lifetime lottery hunt like moose.

The feds have loosened the laws on wolves in MN where you can protect your livestock, pets and self if you or they are being attacked. I would make sure to have some evidence of it though, simply seeing or being close to a wolf is not enough. A man near St. Cloud shot a wolf because it was "headed" in the direction of where his son was hunting. That didn't fly as a valid excuse for it being shot and he was convicted of shooting a federally protected animal.

Now I would not hesitate either to shoot one if I had a gun in hand and one was attacking my dog. I have had to shoot a few warning rounds at one when me and my dog ended up in the middle of a wolf hunt while grouse hunting. I figure I did it a favor in the long run, hopefully, it will stay away from people.

Now, if my dog takes off into the woods and is wandering all over the country then gets killed by wolves that is my fault for letting them roam. I am not going to hold it against the wolves for doing what comes natural to them.