coyotes ....again

Patt · #41 10/03/10, 12:33 PM

We have had a pack in the area for the whole 9 years we have lived here. I have heard them all around us but we have never lost an animal to them that I know of, we are surrounded by a lake and mountain and woods and I am sure there is just too much wildlife for them to eat around here. If I hear them close I round up my cats and bring them inside for the night but that's all I have ever done. All our animals are put up at night in sheds or the barn. I would honestly hate to have to shoot a coyote. If one actually penetrated all the fence and got to the barn we would have to though.

Lyra · #42 10/03/10, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

I can tell you don't have them killing your dogs, cats, hens, and anything else they can get a hold of.

Even if one took my dog I would have the same opinion. I have a deep respect for nature and its creatures. When I was younger, deer would eat apples from our trees. Should I hate all deer and want to kill them because they might take my food? These are wild animals. It is their nature to hunt and forage.

Common Tator · #43 10/03/10, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamp_walker

Coyotes ARE NOT native to every area, they are VERY adaptable, and there is no such thing as co-habitate with coyotes once they move in. They moved into this area about 15 years ago...never seen or heard one and all of a sudden i had calves either dead or with their ears and noses chewed off. The native red fox and grey fox populations were decimated, ground nesting birds(turkey/quail) were history, and it was a race to find new borns before the coyotes did....still is. ALL my barn cats disappeared, a couple blue heelers have been eaten over the years, countless calves and foals, and i trap and hunt them year round. Its even dangerous to let small children roam in some areas. Contrary to popular belief, nature cant be left alone and expected to manage itself. Man made bridges over large bodies of water, interstates with barrier fences, developement, and urban sprawl all contribute to un-natural relocation and pressure. We are responsible for most of the problems, whether intentional or not, and its our responsibility to mange it the best we can.

I've been a fur trapper for 30 years and 9 years ago, i started an animal damage control buisness...coyotes kept me busier than i wanted to be...lol. Forget about cage traps for coyotes. The only coyotes ive caught in a cage were old or sick/mangy chicken coop raiders. And one is about all you'll catch...as said, they are very adaptable. Hunting can be effective for controlling their numbers as well. Trapping will always be the most efficient. Its best to get a seasoned coyote trapper to do it efficently and safely. They arent "hard" to catch but they would be for someone just starting out. Also the size foothold needed to hold a coyote can be dangerous to smaller non-target animals. Traps have come along way though...but they arent cheap. A good trapper can use bait, known coyote behavior, and trap adjustments to eliminate all but coyotes getting caught. With some of the newer traps (MB-450's) its safe for non-targets anyway. This little girl at my feet right now (28lb heeler) has been caught more times than i can count.

They dont have to be completely eliminated but they need controlled...or at least pestered relentlessly...lol. What you see on the news with coyotes wandering the streets is dangerous for everyone. Everyone in this area keeps a rifle in the floorboard...coyotes and hogs are shot on site. The few farmers that have the time, we trap them year round. They are still here but they are back to being shy and elusive. Their numbers are in check, red fox are starting to come back, and some turkeys as well. Their numbers are down enough that herd dogs can keep them away from newborns most of the time if you can find them in a day or so.

Sorry for the long post but i fell very passionate about the subject. Laws are being passed daily by people who have no clue or never had to deal with the problems coyotes can create. When it comes to stuff like this, you have to look outside your own yard or your own expirience. Anyone with the "live and let live" attitude about coyotes, come out here and try to make a living farming for a year... Put down a few calves or foals that werent lucky enough to be killed...bury a few of your favorite herd dogs that were out numbered...There is room enough for all Gods creatures on this planet but not on my farm. Anyone stubborn or hard-headed (like me) and just HAVE to try and catch them yourselves...lol...give me a holler. I'll do anything i can to help ya be successful and do it safely for all the other pets and critters.

i AGREE. Controlling their numbers is the only sensible remedy.

krische1012 · #44 10/03/10, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starjj

Same here in my area of KY. I have never heard them but people say they are in the woods here. A friend was here and he claimed he heard them one night but all the nights I have been here I haven't heard them. I too worry about my small dogs when I put them out after dark and early in the morning.

I have seen coyotes in my area on multiple occasions. Most of the time in broad daylight. Once I was driving home at night and I would swear I drove by a wolf, it was HUGE ( I have a Great Dane, so I can judge size! lol) but my neighbors told me that around here the dogs and coyotes interbreed which can make them larger then normal. Especially in winter I hear them howling and making noise as they hunt. One of my neighbors told me that on a clear night he once counted about 18 running on my fields.

I have found bones dumps with cow, deer and assorted smaller bones. The coyotes have no problems trotting up right behind my house.

There are definitely coyotes in my part of Kentucky!

tinknal · #45 10/03/10, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

Even if one took my dog I would have the same opinion. I have a deep respect for nature and its creatures. When I was younger, deer would eat apples from our trees. Should I hate all deer and want to kill them because they might take my food? These are wild animals. It is their nature to hunt and forage.

We are talking about predators here. Any large predator that comes to feel comfortable around humans is a dangerous one and needs to be eliminated. I have coyotes, bears, and in all probability mountain lions in my area. Bears and coyotes are regularly hunted here and because of this they try to avoid humans and human habitations at all costs. The population is healthy, and so is their respect for humans.

Swamp_walker · #46 10/03/10, 05:08 PM

Patt, keeping your animals up is a good way but everyone cant do that. All i can do is try to find new borns before the coyotes do. Its not as big of a problem as it once was thanks to a "neighborhood watch" kinda thing. They just got out of control so fast that it took a while and cost alot of native species to get the non-native coyote numbers down to a manageable level. Last i heard, your state had one of the last known populations of the native red wolves ON THE PLANET...coyotes are taking care of the wolves though and they'll soon be history if not already. I firmly believe that nature can no longer take care of itself. We've mettled and done far too much damage for that to happen and we should be responsable and do what we can to manage what little is left.

Yeah it seems coyotes dont create hovoc everywhere for some reason. Some areas have good numbers of them without affecting the other wildlife and/or farmers, while other areas are almost destroyed, wildlife wise. My guess is the areas where coyotes are native have evolved to handle them? Coyotes populate and become the dominate predator too fast in other areas for native wildlife to keep up. Thats just my un-educated guess though.

Patt · #47 10/03/10, 07:09 PM

The reason we don't have trouble with them is because they have plenty of natural food sources and where I am there is very little civilisation, there is just no pressure on them.

The guy next door to us has 70 acres and he puts his first calving heifers over there every Fall. He has never lost a calf even with our local coyote pack. We have far more problems here with unrestrained dogs than coyotes.

I do agree though that our meddling has wreaked havoc on the food chains around us. We have been fighting racoons for the last 3 years. The only reason I can come up with for it is because the lake up the road from us has become a hot building spot for yuppies and they love to feed critters. Suddenly we have a booming racoon population and sadly they like a little chicken with their corn. We have shot I don't know how many in the last 3 years and we shot 1 in the 7 years before that.

Lyra · #48 10/03/10, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

We are talking about predators here. Any large predator that comes to feel comfortable around humans is a dangerous one and needs to be eliminated. I have coyotes, bears, and in all probability mountain lions in my area. Bears and coyotes are regularly hunted here and because of this they try to avoid humans and human habitations at all costs. The population is healthy, and so is their respect for humans.

Humans are the worst type of predator. Respect shouldn't be given to a species that has done so much damage.

tinknal · #49 10/04/10, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

Humans are the worst type of predator. Respect shouldn't be given to a species that has done so much damage.

There really is no response to this kind of foolishness.

Lyra · #50 10/04/10, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

There really is no response to this kind of foolishness.

Your lack of respect for my opinion only reaffirms my belief in the harm that humans are capable of doing to one another and the world.

jen74145 · #51 10/04/10, 05:49 AM

We had one try to snatch a child off a playground last year; adults all around, but it wanted that kid. A couple incidents of them getting way too close to children, and apparently a couple chased a pair of twelve year old boys last winter.

When I had my dog, they did the sing-and-taunt at the back fence each night. Now that he is gone, I get nervous one is going to surprise me alone with my toddler some day. We go for a run each night, and as it's getting darker earlier, I get a bit jumpy if we get caught out past dusk.

jen74145 · #52 10/04/10, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Killing predators when you encounter them may not reduce their population by any meaningful amount, but it creates both a learned and genetic aversion to humans. The reason that wolves, bears, big cats, etc so seldomly attack humans is that through thousands of generations of evolution humans have killed any predators that became too familiar.

If we stop all killing of predators soon they will become so brazen that it will not be safe to step outside your door.

Yes, this.

I'm all about coexistence and letting apex predators be, we've so few left. But if I had, say, a mountain lion in my yard? No, he's toast. I would feel bad about it for a very long time, but I have a little boy. The coyotes here have been thinned out; or at least, they haven't come singing to my fence in several months.

And they don't take the weak/infirm. They take whatever they can catch. If that means it's the best doe in the herd who turns to protect her kids, fine by them. They don't have some moral code with the betterment of the herds in mind, they're just hungry.

Besides, there are so many of the things that it's the responsible thing to do to thin them out a bit. We get people here screaming that they've found the CHupacabra when no... mangy starving coyote. To be fair, the poor creatures hardly even look canine anymore, they're so sick and hungry.

Txrider · #53 10/04/10, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

Even if one took my dog I would have the same opinion. I have a deep respect for nature and its creatures. When I was younger, deer would eat apples from our trees. Should I hate all deer and want to kill them because they might take my food? These are wild animals. It is their nature to hunt and forage.

And you aren't part of nature? It is in our nature to protect our domestic animals from predators, just as it is in theirs to do what they do.

Humans aren't the only predator that kills coyotes, and it's not against nature for us to do so. We are just as much natural and part of nature as any other mammal. We're just a whole lot smarter.

fishhead · #54 10/04/10, 09:04 AM

The most efficient use of time is to beef up the defenses like an electric fence, fortified coop, guard dog. Do it right once and your animals are safe for a long time.

Focus on killing and you will face an almost endless stream of predators that require lots of time indefinitely.

Lyra · #55 10/04/10, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txrider

And you aren't part of nature? It is in our nature to protect our domestic animals from predators, just as it is in theirs to do what they do.

Humans aren't the only predator that kills coyotes, and it's not against nature for us to do so. We are just as much natural and part of nature as any other mammal. We're just a whole lot smarter.

I consider humans a harmful invasive species. We domesticated wild species in the first place. Most humans abuse the power we have over nature.

I don't recall anyone mentioning that wolf packs are good at keeping coyote numbers down. But then, we have eradicated the wolf too.

Glenda in MS · #56 10/04/10, 09:59 AM

Oh my!

How about this? You are most welcome to come to my farm in South Mississippi and sleep out in my field. I think your opinion on predators and humans being an invasive species might be challenged or perhaps not. But, while the coyotes are chasing you down, and a member of my family comes to your rescue with a rifle, I think you will come to understand the prey/predator relationship and how we aliens ( invasive species) fit in the schematic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

I consider humans a harmful invasive species. We domesticated wild species in the first place. Most humans abuse the power we have over nature.

I don't recall anyone mentioning that wolf packs are good at keeping coyote numbers down. But then, we have eradicated the wolf too.

65284 · #57 10/04/10, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jen74145

We had one try to snatch a child off a playground last year; adults all around, but it wanted that kid. A couple incidents of them getting way too close to children, and apparently a couple chased a pair of twelve year old boys last winter.

When I had my dog, they did the sing-and-taunt at the back fence each night. Now that he is gone, I get nervous one is going to surprise me alone with my toddler some day. We go for a run each night, and as it's getting darker earlier, I get a bit jumpy if we get caught out past dusk.

Easy solution, pack heat and quit worrying.

65284 · #58 10/04/10, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

I consider humans a harmful invasive species. We domesticated wild species in the first place. Most humans abuse the power we have over nature.

I don't recall anyone mentioning that wolf packs are good at keeping coyote numbers down. But then, we have eradicated the wolf too.

If you think wolves have been eradicted you are badly misinformed about that too. Ask folks in the upper midwest and the far west about wolves.

Aside from the eco-wackos, bunny smoochers, and tree huggers you won't get very many positive responses.

Lyra · #59 10/04/10, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65284

Aside from the eco-wackos, bunny smoochers, and tree huggers you won't get very many positive responses.

So be it.

Txrider · #60 10/04/10, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra

I consider humans a harmful invasive species. We domesticated wild species in the first place. Most humans abuse the power we have over nature.

I don't recall anyone mentioning that wolf packs are good at keeping coyote numbers down. But then, we have eradicated the wolf too.

I consider humans simply the apex species of the moment, the only single animal capable of providing life on earth a chance to avoid eventual extinction when the sun burns out and the earth is reduced to a cinder, so far anyway. Nature made us how we are, the same nature that made all other animals how they are made us how we are, and we are perfectly natural to be the way we are and as much a part of nature as any other creature. Nature created us and created our human nature..

We, just as wolves, coyotes etc. are not the original inhabitants of this planet by far, we are all fairly recent and transient newcomers and we will all become extinct just like all the millions and millions of extinct species that preceded us, preceded wolves, preceded coyotes, save for a very very few that last even a few million years like crocodiles..

There are still a lot of wolves, we simply replaced them as the apex predator in areas we inhabit, so their function to keep coyote/deer/etc. populations down is now part of our natural role.

We are part of the natural cycle of the planet, as much as a wolf, a tree or a termite.