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09/23/10, 02:12 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 12,667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springvalley
Plowjockey, I don`t think there were many mega-egg farms sixty years ago. Most farmers wives took care of a flock of hens on the old farmstead years ago 1-200 hundred head mostly, maybe less. They washed and packed them and headed to town once a week with them. My own chickens run around picking through the cow poop, and I have no problem eating eggs from them. I think maybe the chickens at the Mega-farms may have more problems because of stress, put any animal under stress they will get sick and not produce well. I`ll take my farm raised eggs anyday. > Thanks Marc
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I'm 51 and when I was 10, I gathered eggs (2 hrs/day every day $10/wk) in a 45,000 hen battery cage house and our other neighbors had 4,000. These were well established houses for many years already and there were may others in the area.
We also had a small flock, so we were not allowed in the 4,000 hen house, because we could transfer "diseases", from our small flock. sound familiar? We went in all the time anyway, enjoying massive egg fights. 
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09/23/10, 03:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern Michigan (U.P.)
Posts: 9,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. Smith
I'd much rather eat an egg from a home flock where the chickens are allowed to get out and scratch and eat insects and worms rather than the "company" chicken that is crammed into a small cage with 4 or 5 sisters!
Your home chicken gets sunshine and to a certain extent can pick out it's own diet.
The "company" chicken can eat only what is put in front of it and chances are it's never even seen the sun.
While backyard flocks are susceptible to disease by wild birds coming in to eat their feed, I'll still stick with the back yard flock.
And at least with a backyard flock, you KNOW what conditions the eggs have been in. Most people collect their eggs everyday and get them in the fridge. The company may or may not collect all the eggs that day, but what conditions are they stored under? Are they actually in a fridge or left out in room tempature? And how long does it take for eggs to go from hen to store? Some of the eggs in the store might be over a month old by the time you buy them.
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You might know when the eggs were gathered for YOUR backyard flock, but hard to tell what the guy at the Farmers Market is doing or what your neighbor might do. even for our own backyard flock, egg gathering can sometimes get pushed down the long list of things that must get done. When you've got hay to bale or Soccer practice to run the kids to or any number of real world complications we all deal with.
You may not like the housing in commercial operations, but egg gathering and refrigeration isn't something that gets delayed. It's automated. Eggs get cleaned and refrigerated soon after it falls out of the hen.
I know store eggs aren't as fresh as the ones from my chickens, but a month seems a tad long. Source please.
You are correct, free range chickens get to pick their own diet. Mine always picked the oats out of the horse poop and the cracked corn out of the cow patties. Frozen toes from the days of sub zero temps, beaks open, wings out trying to stay cool in the hottest days of summer. Ah yes, those free range hens have it so easy, compared to those betties in the temperature controlled buildings with the million dollar air exchangers, fresh conveyer feed and fresh water running past them.
Try this: Put a hundred hens in a coop with an exit door. Leave the feeders and waterers and a heat light inside. See how many prefer a crowded warm place with feed and water over some fresh air, sunshine and grasshoppers.
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09/23/10, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 34,187
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Quote:
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You are correct, free range chickens get to pick their own diet
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I've seen mine swallow whole mice, and pick maggots off a dead squirrel.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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09/23/10, 04:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NW-IL Fiber Enabler
Posts: 10,215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springvalley
Plowjockey, I don`t think there were many mega-egg farms sixty years ago. . > Thanks Marc
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Marc,
I'll have to disagree with you about that. My mother worked in the large egg production farm in Bancroft IA when she was a teenager. She's in her 70's now. Maybe not 60 years, but definitely 50 years ago there were mega-egg farms.
She had to wear a paper face mask while there.
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09/23/10, 04:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haypoint
Try this: Put a hundred hens in a coop with an exit door. Leave the feeders and waterers and a heat light inside. See how many prefer a crowded warm place with feed and water over some fresh air, sunshine and grasshoppers.
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I don't have 100 hens, but I have 65! Their feed, water and either fans or heat lamps depending on the season are all inside the coop they come in to lay their eggs and get a drink or eat a bit but from 7am to 7pm they spend 90% of their time outside!! The coop door is open all day so it is their choice, and my flock chooses to be OUTSIDE no matter what season not in the coop. Honestly I think this is one of the sillier things you have said in this thread!!!!
Emmy
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09/23/10, 04:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haypoint
I'll respond under the presumption that you are interested in an answer and not just trying to provoke a fight.
.....
Faith is an interesting word. It is a belief in something that cannot be proven. Faith works fairly well for organized religion, but I can see where it wouldn't take you too far in food safety.
I do understand your position. Many years ago, I held some of those same beliefs. But I have discovered they are not factual. Heck, I once thought there was more nutrition in potato skins, carrot peels and bread crusts. I'm always surprised by the number of people that cling to those myths, too.
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Nope like I said just genuinely curious as to how your mindset worked out into how you eat.  Thanks!
I see faith more as something that you have reasonably strong reason to believe in but no absolute proof. I am not a fan of blind faith myself. You and I both know that as far as food safety goes we could sit here for the next 24 hours and do nothing but produce competing evidence to back up our beliefs. (We have actually done that....) But in the end you take your evidence and I take mine: both personal observations and what we read and we build our "faith" on them.
Weirdly enough I thought more like you do before we went into this whole homesteading thing. I was paranoid about every new thing we ate and I was convinced that butchering our own chickens and drinking raw milk would most likely be the death of us. Honestly I don't know how to describe how genuinely fearful I was of that first sip of cow's milk I had from our cow! It sat in the fridge for days before anyone would touch it and I drank it first to make sure it wouldn't make my kids sick. Once I figured out how good it was and that it was safe I was off and running doing research to find out what was really up with our food supply.
If you feel like sharing what changed your mind to your current position?
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09/23/10, 04:43 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haypoint
You lost me on that one.
Most people on raw food diets don't eat meat. Correct?
I don't want this discussion to get ugly. I don't want Patt mad, so let's steer back to the OP.
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Thank you.
Actually weirdly enough they do eat meat.  I am a huge sushi fan but anything else I need cooked to at least medium rare!
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09/23/10, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sequim WA
Posts: 6,352
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We only have (16) chickens, but ALL OF THEM are outside 90% of the time (sunrise to sunset), even though they have food/water inside their warm dry chicken house, too! They even stay out in the rain, too (?!). The chicken house is 8 X 8; one end is 7 feet tall and the other is 6 feet tall (where their door is) and their chicken pasture is protected by a 250 foot long electric mesh fence. We toss food over the fence for them, too, every afternoon. They peck around all day until dusk, rarely going inside except for water. I have noticed they eat from the indoor feeder after dark, and we provide them a light that comes on, shutting down at 10pm. I got debated over that quite a bit, but it worked great, the chickens molted regardless when they needed to, and we got plenty of eggs over the Winter. This is what the locals do and works where I live. Gathering? Well, in our case, we gather when we close up the nestboxes for the night, every single day. We either eat or sell every single egg, so none get old or go to waste.
Gotta agree with Emmy
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09/23/10, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 17,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heritagefarm
So then, the chance of bacteria could be the same. Well, I love my cookie dough, and I've made eggnog. I would trust a backyard egg sooner than one from a factory, simply because it seems the backyard farmer can have tighter quality control. It's also for taste, something just tells me there's something nutritionally wrong with a pale tasteless blob of mush vs. our vibrantly orange firm TASTYTASTY eggs.  |
I can't stand the store bought eggs. I eat farm fresh, small flock eggs almost exclusively, but I don't delude myself by saying that there is any less potential of contracting e.coli or salmonella from eating them, I just don't care.
__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi
Libertarindependent
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09/23/10, 05:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorichristie
We only have (16) chickens, but ALL OF THEM are outside 90% of the time (sunrise to sunset), even though they have food/water inside their warm dry chicken house, too! They even stay out in the rain, too (?!). The chicken house is 8 X 8; one end is 7 feet tall and the other is 6 feet tall (where their door is) and their chicken pasture is protected by a 250 foot long electric mesh fence. We toss food over the fence for them, too, every afternoon. They peck around all day until dusk, rarely going inside except for water. I have noticed they eat from the indoor feeder after dark, and we provide them a light that comes on, shutting down at 10pm. I got debated over that quite a bit, but it worked great, the chickens molted regardless when they needed to, and we got plenty of eggs over the Winter. This is what the locals do and works where I live. Gathering? Well, in our case, we gather when we close up the nestboxes for the night, every single day. We either eat or sell every single egg, so none get old or go to waste.
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Thanks lorichristie, of course my coop is bigger, maybe 40' x 30', with 20 nest boxes, 6' to the ceiling and a light that comes on for about 3 hours a night. I also gather all the eggs when I shut them up for the night! I wash the ones I am going to sell and the rest stay the way they are until myself or my family eats them...I don't wash the eggs we keep for personal use never have probably never will, none of us has ever gotten sick from our eggs!!
Emmy
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09/23/10, 05:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NW-IL Fiber Enabler
Posts: 10,215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springvalley
. Most of the amish around these parts at least have cage free, but they are still confined, not so bad.
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marc, when was the last time you were in one of the Mennonite 'cage-free' barns? Paul was at the Kromph's this past spring to help them cleam out the barn before the next batch of layers were added. He had to go in to the facility in a pert-near haz-mat outfit. As they took up the flooring, there were multiply rats to the left, right and center. They may be 'cage-free', but they don't see sunlight and there sure is a lot of cannibalism in those facilities, not even counting the rats.
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and my horses don`t work near as much as they should.
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LOL! Your horses are on vacation, sir!!!  We need to get another Horse Progress Day in the works just so your horses will work for one day a year! 
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09/23/10, 06:20 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sequim WA
Posts: 6,352
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For those who like eggnog, but are concerned about using raw eggs? There are great cooked eggnog recipes, too. Google and try 'em until you find one you like!
The way I figure it, getting things back to the basics, is the healthiest way to go. Len & I are incredibly healthy compared to most people we know, are physically stronger, and have higher stamina levels, too. I am healthier than I was 20 years ago. At this point, I could care less what others think, if I feel great living the way I do? I will continue to do so. That includes eating our own fresh eggs every single day!
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09/23/10, 06:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 17,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorichristie
r, and have higher stamina levels, too. I am healthier than I was 20 years ago. At this point, I could care less what others think, if I feel great living the way I do? I will continue to do so. That includes eating our own fresh eggs every single day!
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No one here has a problem with that. I feel the same way. The problem is that 95% of the population do not get their food in this manner, and there is no way to provide their food in this manner. Small sustainable practices may someday provide significantly more than it does now, but we still need big ag to feed the masses.
__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi
Libertarindependent
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09/23/10, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NW-IL Fiber Enabler
Posts: 10,215
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Quote:
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Well, I love my cookie dough, and I've made eggnog. I would trust a backyard egg sooner than one from a factory, simply because it seems the backyard farmer can have tighter quality control.
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Yes, the CAN, but don't always DO.
I know of a local backyard egg/dairy farmer less than 2 miles from me ( & not on this list), that I would never drink the milk from their goats, eat the eggs from their hens or buy their horses. I've been inside their house.
My barn is cleaner.
Just because someone CAN, doesn't mean they DO. Again , it gets back to 'know your source'.
Last edited by MullersLaneFarm; 09/23/10 at 08:31 PM.
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09/23/10, 07:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,273
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Are my free range eggs safe?
If I ever find out where the chickens are hiding them, I'll let you know.
__________________
Anne
Give me a sweet home set among the trees,
With friends whose words are ever kind and true.
-Phoebe Carey-
LONE PINE FARM
Barnesville, PA
Boer goats, Angora goats, Eclectic mix of poultry
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09/23/10, 07:18 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sequim WA
Posts: 6,352
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tinknal
Quote:
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No one here has a problem with that. I feel the same way. The problem is that 95% of the population do not get their food in this manner, and there is no way to provide their food in this manner. Small sustainable practices may someday provide significantly more than it does now, but we still need big ag to feed the masses.
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The OP had nothing to do with the 95%, although the article led to a comparison. OK, me? I am the 5% and wow, my neighbors buy our eggs, many have their own chickens, there are plenty of fresh egg signs up. So, where we live? I think the 95% is wayyyyyy off. Certainly I care about others and feel bad that they eat old eggs. I can get the latest shipped eggs, crack one & compare to one of my fresh ones. Not a comparison. Where you buy eggs here is completely up to the individual. They can buy fresh eggs or old eggs from the store. I don't have to.
Back to the OP:
Quote:
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Reply to thread 'Are your free range eggs safe?'
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Yes due to the way we care for our chickens, feed them, and provide for their needs as well as we can, handling, safety measures, and there you go. I just love fresh eggs!
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09/23/10, 07:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 5,069
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Quote:
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I know store eggs aren't as fresh as the ones from my chickens, but a month seems a tad long. Source please.
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According to the USDA the packing date is 1-7 days from when they were collected, the expiration date can be no more than 30 days from the date of packing (so that would be a maximum of 37 days) and if they use a "Use By" date it can be no more than 45 days from packing date and that has to include the actual day of packing so maybe a maximum of 51 days from the day they were layed. http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams....g2&resultType=
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I can't stand the store bought eggs. I eat farm fresh, small flock eggs almost exclusively, but I don't delude myself by saying that there is any less potential of contracting e.coli or salmonella from eating them, I just don't care.
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My sentiments exactly. If you are afraid of contamination and think store bought eggs are safer eat store bought, if you actually like taste and are comfortable with the risks eat from your backyard flock.
I am always amazed at some of these arguments on a homesteading forum. I work outside everyday where there are snakes, poisonous spiders, wildlife, equipment dangers etc and I am far from any medical facility. Its a risk I understand and accept just like with my food and if I wanted to be free from those risks I would live in a condo in a big city...but then the big city has its own risks just like store bought food has its own.
Personally I think arguing that factory farms are safely regulated and that the chickens prefer to stay caged is about as valid as those who think their backyard flocks cant carry any disease because the chickens are loved and have a twinkle in their eye. Both of those views sound like some 1940s Department of Agriculture propaganda 8mm movie we saw as kids.
I eat mostly farm raised eggs that are free range because I can where I live now but I also feel safe eating store bought. Nothing wrong IMO with big farms but its clear there is an anti homesteading/small farmer bent in some of the posts (yuppies with a hobby farming addiction?) just as there is from the virilent anti big ag crowd (how many threads bashing Monsanto have been closed down).
The only thing I agree with both sides on is there are a lot of myths floating around.
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09/23/10, 08:05 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 17,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorichristie
tinknal
So, where we live? I think the 95% is wayyyyyy off.
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You live on Earth. 7 billion and counting.
__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi
Libertarindependent
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09/23/10, 08:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,813
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I once inspected a large egg farm when doing approval of food sources for the military. Eggs went to the washer and were supposed to be sprayed with a bleach solution. I noticed the bucket of bleach was empty. Failed them as a source.
They were approved by the USDA, but nobody was watching them 24/7. The fact that something is inspected, or government approved doesn't mean alot. Perhaps no more risk than home flocks, but there is a false sense of security with that stamp on the carton.
There's the other little concept, that the more crowded animals are, the more chance of spreading disease. Which is why our kids didn't go to daycare, though some advocate it to build immunity.
While the disease issues are dramatic and get the most attention, I look at things more from a nutritional aspect. Most of the health problems in our country are due to nutrtion problems - affecting obesity, cancer, heart disease, etc.
Large farms make their rations on a least-cost basis. Basically find cheap ingredients and add supplements to counter any deficiencies. For example, a friend of ours runs a cattle feedlot in farm country. He often has piles of potato waste from french fry factories. Put that in the ration and then add vitamins and minerals to make it "complete and balanced". I've even read of candy waste added to the ration, like gummy bears.
Unfortunately, there are micronutrients like antioxidants that will be lacking in such a diet. What goes into an animal is what will come out. I'm not against supplements, but would prefer to supplement a diet that has something in it to begin with. If parents fed their kids nothing but twinkies and a vitamin/mineral supplement, we'd consider it abuse.
Anyway, I like my cows and chickens to eat something green, with supplements added. Most of the country doesn't care as long as it's cheap. Which is the policy of our government - cheap, low quality food.
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09/23/10, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sequim WA
Posts: 6,352
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Quote:
tinknal
You live on Earth. 7 billion and counting.
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Good one! Of course, reading it the way it was written, as a question with an answer directly afterward, yep, should have added a few more words...
I live in a conservative community of hardworking people 5 minutes from the Hood Canal, yes, on Planet Earth, thankfully where I want to live 
A short while ago, I went out, treated my chickens to some bread, gathered the eggs, put them in cold soapy water, dug up a comfrey plant, harvested the roots, and organized the seeds gathered earlier. Right now, I took a break and am headed back to make dinner, wash my eggs, and find a place for my seeds to dry undisturbed. I am happy I don't have to buy seeds for my garden next year 
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