What could they be spraying on this field?

Why was he using R on alfalfa? Is the GM Alfalfa out already?

__________________
I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

I'm guessing that he's trying to get rid of the weeds? According to the email that I received, they're thinking about planting corn or beans in the field since the alfalfa didn't do so well. It was horribly weedy.

__________________
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http://s-jfarms.com

A fall application of Glyphosate is a typical practice to kill alfalfa, especially if you desire to use no-till as your seeding practice. It was probably combined with 2-4D for a better kill.

That is a very poorly informed comment, and has no basis in any fact. Period. Agent Orange was similar to 2,4-D. It did not share anything with Glyphosate. They work differently, are different chemicals, have nothing in common.

The problem with Agent Orange was that it had 2,4-T in it, which has some dioxons in it. That is the bad stuff.

2,4-T was banned many many years ago. (Corrected - oops, got that typed wrong the 2st time...)


Roundup is totally different.


I will agree it's not nice to let the stuff drift into the neighbors, and if he had any 2,4-D in it, that can be pretty hard on some garden plants like tomatoes. As someone else said, Roundup really is low-smell, and it does not kill alfalfa very well, so typically something else is mixed with it.

People have a different level of 'compfort' with chemicals, Roundup tests far less toxic or hazardous than gasoline does. If you refuel your own lawnmower & have a few gallons of gasoline on your property, you have a much more dangerous chemical than the one to 2 quarts of Roundup that is spryed per acre.

That doesn't mean you should enjoy it or be subject to it; only to compare 'threat' levels.

Sorry it's a problem for you, it's a black eye for all farmers when such things happen.

Both Roundup & 2,4-D have very short intervals of keeping livestock out of a fields sprayed with them. From 0 to 7 days, mostly zero days. As you're field was not directly sprayed, but only caught a light drift, it should not be something to be real worried about. Again I understand, your place, you should have control. Only saying the 'threat' level to your livestock would be extremely low.....

--->Paul

That is a very poorly informed comment, and has no basis in any fact. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambler

2,4-D was banned many many years ago.

--->Paul

Actually, that is a combination of my fat fingers on a small keyboard and not proofreading what I wrote! I will correct it in the message above, as it's a rather importantant goof I made. Some might say it is just my fat head causing the problems.

2,4-T was banned for most uses, of course. 2,4-D might be one of the longest-used broadleaf weed killer around, in common use since the 1950's, perhaps came out even earlier, and still used all over. It is the common ingredient in the dandylion lawn 'weed & feed' granulars.

--->Paul

Ugh. I am so sorry. Sorry for you, for your goats and for the generations to come. It's a tragic situation any way you look at it.

Got any plant death on your side of the line?

No offense... I just prefer using the method where the weed disappears, and you don't even have to spray it.

__________________
I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

grandmajo, here is some info you might find helpful:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/921

WIHH, I agree. The stench of manure, while pungent and far reaching, is much preferred to any pesticide application.

You know, I've lived just about my whole life in the country. In this same county as a matter of fact. I can remember as a kid, when the neighbor guy would come down and let my folks know when he was going to spread manure, so that my mom wouldn't hang out laundry that day. Same thing if they were going to spray something, (which was pretty rare). It was called common courtesy, being neighborly, having consideration for others, etc. I guess that life in the country has changed just like it has every where else.

Danaus29, I appreciate the link. But anything that is written to be governed by the ODA isn't even worth the paper that it's written on. In my own experience, the ODA laws and rules only apply to the little guys like me, not the big farmers.

__________________
S-J Farms
http://s-jfarms.com

My XW would do that, plus others I've known. Tell about a problem, but get defensive if offered a solution.

One fact of life that I keep reminding myself of, " We cannot change other people or their actions. All we can change is how we react to others and their actions."

Wishing the neighbor had manners or gave two hoots about over spraying your property won't get it to happen. Just won't.

Danaus29 gave you the tools you need to tackle your stated problem. Your reply sounds like a deflection of the solution allowing the problem to persist while adding in a bit of pity.

The problem isn't people breaking the laws and being inconsiderate. The problem is people that choose to let that become normal behavior. When you were a kid, people were neighborly, in part, because they needed to get along in the community. Today, things have changed. But your neighbor still must be considerate, IF you are willing to respond to his actions and give up that "the law is on the big guy's side" excuse.

Call the ODA, get an employee to come out and test or at least take a report. Tell them you felt the drift on your skin. Your neighbor does not want to lose his pesticide applicator's license. Write down the names of everyone you speak to. Make an effort.

Please give up that "ODA laws and rules only apply to the little guys like me, not the big farmers." It is wrong and doesn't look good on you.

Keep us informed on your progress.

Sorry, but I've dealt with the ODA firsthand and I don't feel that it's an excuse. We spent from June 28th to July 9th, 2009 surrounded by a manure covered field, and on one side it was 50 feet from our house. It took me until July 7th to even find the right person to speak with. I kept getting passed from person to person who would say it wasn't their department and to try this person at this number. I filed a formal complaint, and 2 days later the ODA guy contacted me. In our phone conversation he stated that he had spoken with the owner and an hour and a half before he called me. That was about the time that the tractors finally showed up to start incorporating the manure into the field. The ODA guy said that the owner admitted that he got "a little close" to our house. That's a violation of the set-back rules for application. I have it in writing from the ODA in their own report that they spoke with the owner and he admitted he was too close to our house. There was no fine issued, nothing. He said that the owner stated that his written manure management plan stated that they had worked in the first application within 48 hours after it was applied. I told the ODA guy I live and work here, it didn't happen. The ODA guy offered to come do an inspection, but told me that it would take him a couple of hours to get here. I asked him what the point would be, since the field would all be worked by the time he got there and he agreed that it would be a waste of time. He then told me that in the future it would be better for me to just call the owner directly rather than get him involved. He also informed me that he had never had a complaint about that farm. Interesting, I personally know several people who have called to ODA regarding similar issues, but yet they have no record of complaints?

The previous property that I owned was about the same distance from this farm. The year after their first cow barn went up, my property tax bill showed a reduction in taxes with a statement after the reduction saying "XX dairy affected zone". The county auditor got in trouble for doing that and it was removed on the next bill.

This year the owner made it a point to let me know that he was appointed as the family farmer representative on the new Livestock Care Board which is overseen by the state. I take that as a threat, he's implying that if I turn him in again, he'll be sending inspectors out to my farm. So, from my understanding he can have them show up unannounced at my farm by filing a complaint. But yet if I file a complaint it takes 2 days for someone from the ODA to even respond? And he gets a week advanced notice from the ODA (his own words) before they show up to do an inspection of his dairy and records. Sorry, but that sounds a bit slanted in his favor.

__________________
S-J Farms
http://s-jfarms.com

Your opinion is cool. I've got no problem with that.

Your 'facts' in this thread were wrong, and that just doesn't help anyone. It clouds things up, making it worse..... Don't mean anything extra by that, and enjoy your messages through the forum. Just - I think you were wrong on this one is all.

My typing skills aren't the best, and someone pointing that out - well I gotta laugh at myself with them, and no offense taken at all.

Looks like the original poster has some issues with the farm in question, and has a house that is way too close to the proerty line and invites problems like this. I wish there were much bigger setbacks for houses out in the country. They should be 150 or 200 feet off the line - if you are in farmland area, you shouldn't be able to wreck a farm, any more than the farm should wreck your house. Would help for a lot of these sorts of problems. It's not right to let spray drift across someone else's property, tho at times can be hard to be 'perfect' on that. Manure tho, it's how we grow things, and I see it as a shared problem when one chooses to have a house too close to a property line. One of those, what do you expect, sort of things.

Don't think we will get a real accurate view of this situation, always 2 sides to it.

--->Paul

rambler, my mom's house is about 200' off the property line and her idiot farmer neighbor has actually lifted the spray wand so he can spray the fence line and also her property.

The problem is idiots and jerks who care nothing for other people and their right to live in peace. Crop fields do not need to be sprayed right to the fenceline. You can stop spraying 20 to 50 feet back and still have adequate coverage.

grandmajo, I truly wish I knew what to tell you. People who are jerks shouldn't be farmers. This "gem" should be reported to the Livestock Advisory board oversight in charge (whoever that might be). Pulling an inspection on you is not supposed to be one of the duties of the board and would indicate he is using his position for intimidation. That is an act that is supposed to get him kicked off the board. (I bet he collects a hefty sum for that "voluntary" position) Later tonight I'll try to look around to see if I can find anything else to help you. Did you call the Board of health on him for the manure?? If not, I think you should call them and give them a heads up on the situation. Maybe you and your other neighbors should ban together and seek the advice of an attorney. Ohio right to farm does not protect farmers who willfully violate other laws and ordinances.

Paul, for our state there is a 100 foot set-back from the residence if the manure is to be incorporated within 24 hours, it's a 300 foot set back if longer than 24 hours. You are correct in that my house is set too close to the property line, it's 50 feet from the south property line. If I could have seen into the future when I looked at this place, I would have passed on it. I've owned this house since January of 2001, but never had any contact with the farm until June/July of last year.

I wish that I had been able to grab my camera fast enough and take a video of this guy spraying. He started at our east property line where the pasture is and the goats were in it at the time. What was weird was that he only made 1 pass around the perimeter of the field, then he left. This was on Monday and it rained the next day, so I doubt that it would do any good to have anything tested? I kept the email from the owner's son stating that it was basically round-up and there was no animal concern.

Danaus29, when the incidence with the manure happened last year the board of health was my first phone call. They told me that they weren't responsible and to try the ag extension office. That guy never answered his phone or emails. So I then called the Ohio EPA and got bounced around by them. Someone there finally told me that the EPA didn't handle that anymore and that I needed to contact the ODA. It took 3 different phone calls to them before I finally was given to the right department/inspector. I left a message and when I hadn't received a call back within 24 hours I sent an email and worded it as a formal complaint. 24 hours after that is when the ODA guy finally called. As far as the neighbors go, he's paying them to lease their fields.

__________________
S-J Farms
http://s-jfarms.com

These comment illustrate that you are NOT a farmer and that you have no idea of the physics or the methods used when spraying fields.

Your neighbor may be a true idiot, I won't dispute that, but stating that I can merely not spray 50 feet is completely ludicrous.

Jim

That's terrible! And yes it does fall under OEPA and the local board of health jurisdiction.

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/3745-27-03

This part is pretty far down:
(c) Land application of the following solid wastes authorized under chapter 6111. of the Revised Code,

(i) Agricultural waste for incorporation into soil for the purposes of use as a soil amendment and agricultural or horticultural applications, provided that all of the following conditions are met:

(a)The agricultural waste is limited to source-separated non-processed plant materials, including stems, leaves, vines, roots, and raw vegetables, fruits and grains.

(b)The agricultural waste is land applied exclusively on fields owned by the owner of the agricultural production operation that generated the agricultural waste.

(c)The land application of the agricultural waste does not create a nuisance or health hazard in the judgement of the health commissioner or the director.


ORC water pollution regulations do not apply in this case (ORC 6111.04) so you can't use that route even if he is applying animal waste right next to a waterway. But under the Ohio Administrative Code the local health department is required to determine if the manure does constitute a health hazard.

Lazy J, I will assume you have never seen the damage done by herbicide spray drift when the spraying was done on a windy day. In order to spray the weeds any contact herbicide needs to be sprayed over the top of the weeds. If the droplets are very tiny the slightest wind will carry them for quite a distance. Even if the droplets are large the mist will still carry. Every single herbicide MSDS cautions against overspray. Every single herbicide container cautions against overspray. If your nozzle is held 5 feet above the ground you will get a radius from the nozzle that exceeds the diameter of the nozzle. The proportion depends on the diameter of the nozzle, the psi of the spray, and the fineness of the spray droplets. The spray can easily go 20 to 50 feet past the edge of the sprayer.

Herbicide drift damage is just starting to be documented. Too many farmers believe it can never happen so they spray how and where they want. As I stated before there are many factors that determine how far herbicide drift or overspray goes. A responsible landowner does their research and tries to keep the drift to a minimum. Special care should be taken when the crop field is next to a home. There usually isn't a problem when the same crops are growing in adjacent fields.

grandmajo's neighbor did not just turn a corner and suddenly find a house and lawn where there was a corn field the year before.

I grew up on a working farm. My grandfather was a farmer. Yes he used pesticides and herbicides. He was very careful about where he sprayed. He checked wind conditions and watched where his sprayers were hitting. And yes, he did frequently stop 20 to 50 feet from the end of the field on the side that was downwind. He occasionally lost edge crops because the adjacent farmers weren't as cautious about where their spray went. When he rented his fields he had a strict agreement with the renter about not spraying when the wind was blowing toward the house or more than x miles per hour.

This is just one article about drift:
http://www.ipm.montana.edu/CropWeedS...icidedrift.htm

Who cares what your grandfather did, stopping 20 to 50 feet from the edge of the filed does NOT give adequate coverage.

Do you know if the OPs neighbor used air induction nozzles to recude drift. What about the use of low vole high pressure to limit the effects of Drift?

With all due respect to your Grandfather and his practices, spraying technoloy has improved drastically since the days of your grandfather. I am sure your Grand dad also had a party line and no internet.


My Grandmother was a teacherand my Grandfather a master tool and die maker, using your logic I must be an expert at both teaching and tool and die making.