Vegetarian Homesteaders - care to share? :)

Another way to look at keeping animals and how they might pay their way is in their manure. Rabbit manure is great for your garden and rabbits can be fed a good bit of grass and clover and such keeping their feed costs down to a minimum. I would go with a few animals that are there to be your pets and provide you with fertiliser for your garden which will be your money maker.

Regarding feeding the animals after they've passed their prime, it's easy to do that for cheap or free with a few connections. One of my favorite local farms gets expired produce from a grocery store. Check out their latest blog entry, where the Dave Matthews Band donated all of their leftover food to the farm when they were in town for a concert:

http://blacksheepfarms.com/

They are incredibly nice people and have to answer questions here:

http://www.formspring.me/blacksheepfarms

I like worms, too. Hang in there and stick to your guns.

I'm vegetarian too, save for some fish.

Hens... I keep only a few at a time. Generally, a hawk swipes them eventually, which... okay, it stinks to lose a favorite, but hawks have to eat too.

I can't do goats because honestly, they are like dogs to me. I've had a couple and they followed me like puppies. And being a nursing mother msyelf, it would rip my soul up to take a buckling and sell it while it's mama bleated and panicked on the other side of the fence. Nope. Cannot. Do. It.

I made pets out of my meat rabbits when DH was carnivorous. Oops. LOL

I do love most animals, so being without them is odd to me too. But here I am, with two housecats. We're moving for a few months, so I have not replenished my flock, and the neighbor's dog got my rabbits, so yeah.

I do not mind other people eating meat at all. I will sell/swap ducklings to a meat eater no problem. Favorite rabbit does, nuh-uh. LOL.

I will *not* sell pet anything. Say you sell five bucklings... well, two years later, I bet four have been run through the sale barn, tethered, poorly fed, and probably wind up dying of preventable disease when the cute wears off. I would rather an animal be killed humanely to sustain other lives than wasted.

You either have to accept the meat side of things, or not breed food animals beyond what you personally can keep, IMHO.

In a year or two, DH and I will move from this house permanently and have a bit more land. I will likely have a small pony for DS/ my own fun ( hush. I don't want to feed a full sized, no wish to ride, so a tiny thing it shall be. LOL), perhaps a pair of wethers, and hens and rabbits again.

I have had mean chickens though; had one who pecked every chance she got, and she was a JErsey Giant. BIG bruises. If the hawk hadn't swiped her, I was turning her into broth the next day. I won't waste an animal, but having a child, I will NOT keep a mean one. I can be vegetarian the other 90% of the time.

Yes. My rabbits largely ate weeds and garden scraps, and thrived. I only fed a few pellets/BOSS in the winter. My main hangup with bunnies is I despise small cages, and cage wire is $$$. I want to do a colony setup for a few does, but it will have to wait.

[QUOTE=ChristyACB;4645114]Ditto with not hurting the worms. I usually try to keep the raised beds super dry with a plastic sheet so they burrow very deep before I start spading up the top to mix in new compost every year. It works! Give it a try.

That's an interesting tip. I'm going to try it. Thanks

I'm very confused...You don't eat meat because of attachment to animals yet you are willing to keep them caged/confined to a small property and most likely these animals are not native to your area.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. It seems being a vegetarian homesteader these days means absolving yourself from responsibility by burying your head in the sand.

Animals in the wild are eaten/die thus is the cycle of life. It sounds like you want the best of both worlds. The superiority complex that you do not "harm animals" but on the same foot you are willing to domesticate them and "use" them for your personal gain.

Hypocritical imo.

You know, we all have our own journey. Not a one of us veggie-types has snarled at you meat eaters, have we?

Seriously, why people get so rude about someone else's dietary choices... dang. There is no superiority complex, though if you're jumping to the whole "Those vegetarains think "they" are better than "us"..." well, that's on you. Not those of us who just choose not to eat flesh.

I really do not care what anybody else eats... well, provided you're not noshing on endangered pangolins or something. I do have an issue with commercial meat production, because that, I think, is just abominable abdication of responsibility.

My issues are more that I cannot raise my own right now, so I am vegetarian. And my own animals wind up pets if they'll allow it, so yeah. I could no more eat my pet hen than you chomp into Fido. My status may change this summer, as my DH still likes meat, and he hunts. I'm fine with that, as I'm fine with eating extra roosters who never saw it coming. Meh. Six one way, half a dozen the other.

I guess I should have put a disclaimer stating that I was speaking generally and specifically at the same time. People like the OP are what this is directed at. Not directed towards vegetarians in general. Sorry If I offended, although I would hope that in a society that's First founding principle is based of freedom of speech, I'm not sure WHY I am sorry, but I digress as that is another subject completely.

Take it as you will.

First, some of these domesticated animals wouldn't last 3 days in the wild. The large coyote I saw last night was on the edge of a small town. Second, there is a humane way to treat and raise animals with respect (natural/organic/cage free farming). I see the other side of the coin. I am not a vegetarian and I see other non-vegetarians abuse animals all the time. So to think that those who eat meat are the only ones that are justified in raising animals is just wrong.

Now we know the real issues, can we have a calm discussion now. You would eat meat if you could raise it but because you made a pet out of it you can't eat it now!!!! Is that a vegetarian? Just asking (and ducking)....James

I am not a vegetarian but I am intrigued, I came here to get a view into how people handle this situation. I came with an open mind and to help if possible (the OP asked). Why is it that vegetarians think we need to listen to them tell us why we are bad. "Oh, I see you eat meat, that is so disgusting, do you know how they raise chickens these days"? "We" don't ask them IF they are vegetarians in a normal conversation. "Oh are you a vegetarian"?

I think the OP was sincere, but....she knew where this could go. She should keep animals to a minimum, chickens for eggs, goat or cow for milk, other animals for manure, etc. Then dispose of them as she sees fit. That is her stuggle. The only other way is not to eat ANY animal product, Ever. Any animal she has is for her enjoyment, these animals then become her responsibility for life. It can NOT suffer. For the rest of her life she has to treat it like it was her child. Anything else would make her a hypocrite.
But on the other hand, if you respect it's life and know it is one of God's creatures, Your responsibility is only to not LET it suffer during it's life....James


edit. Your responsibility is only to not LET it suffer during it's life with you....James

I heard of a money maker several years ago that you might look into. There was a person that rented out herds of either sheep or goats for a specified period of time(and after inspection of the site as to fencing and such) for the purpose of clearing land and weed control/grass mowing.
I am an avowed omnivore..if I raise it I will eat it. My sister however is struggling with being a vegetarian. I say struggling because sometimes she will eat meat and most times it is milk and eggs but has been as strict as vegan. She is doing research on opening a vegetarian restaurant. The realities of such an opperation has had her shift focus several times. She started with vegan and vegitarian dishes only...being me I told her she will get more patronage if she has several meat dishes for "mixed" families. Then comes the question wether the vegans will sit down with carnivores in the same room considering the sights and smells. Only solution at this time is a seperate vegan dining room. I offer this information only in light of real world considerations on the practical interaction between vegans,vegetarians and omnivores. Feathers will be ruffled as well as plucked.

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" As needs-MUST!!"--- in other words..a gal does what a gal has too!

It seems a lot of people can get as upset about food and food production as they can talking about McCain vs. Obama. It's odd, really.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

It's harder living as an ethical vegetarian, no doubt about it.

For rabbits, there are some you can collect the fur (they shed... at least several of the ones here do...)... whether it'd ever be worth it is questionable.

If you breed registered goats, from established and well known lines, you could possibly sell your registered bucklings to other breeders. There's a buckling that was brought here that cost $300. Someone pays ~$300 for an animal that doesn't weigh 50lbs..... it's not going to be eaten. So, go with hi-dollar registered goats, and you can avoid the agony of bbq cabrito dreams.

Milk cows? They should live for a long long time. Maybe commercial dairies nowadays slaughter at 3 years, but I have a hard time believing it. Only a year or year and a half and then slaughter... methinks not.

I rarely slaughter any of my excess roosters... I think of them as Shock Troopers... if there's a predator about, hopefully they'll follow orders from der Texican and sacrifice themselves. It's free range here... and every varmint in the world thinks it's an Easy Free Range Diner.

On all the other animals, everything feels pain. Also, all life, whether it be animal or vegetable, has a purpose, unto itself. [Out on the far end of the spectrum, I also feel rocks have feelings... always feel a pang of regret and say a little silent farewell, when I put them 'to sleep' in a large bed of concrete or mortar... not to see the light of day for millenia]

I try and live as much as possible by a Buddhist tenet... To live is to Suffer... Suffering is inescapable... for us to live, something else must suffer...

...whether it be a bird, a cow, a carrot, or rutabaga...

I soothe my conscience with the knowledge that a lot of species would be diminished or even extinct without human interference. I kill only when necessary. For the last year, I've gotten all of my meat supply from the butcher... my conscience is clear, in that I didn't kill the animal, and didn't create a market for it to be raised and slaughtered... the meat was excess that the butchers previously had thrown away.

Good luck, and hope you can find the balance you need.

btw... I never hurt worms... reckon I'm feeding about a million of them... in the areas around the chicken house and barns, where I feed, if you lay cardboard or heavy paper on the ground, and come back several days later and pull it up, you'll find thousands feeding on the surface.... they dare not do it in the open, or the free range poultry would feast on them.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Who said I wanted to confine them to a small cage or property? What does an animal being native to my area have to do with raising it with kindness? I want the best of both worlds? What worlds are those? Who said I had a superiority complex? Did I not say that I don't care if other people eat meat? Animals are already domesticated, so I'm not inventing the wheel here. Use them for my own personal gain? Uh... I DID say I wasn't vegan, didn't I? I'm not sure what your issue is... I seem to have missed your point completely. Are we even remotely on the same page?

Yes, I'm somewhat confused myself. I can only raise it if I'm going to eat it -- to have it for another purpose is hypocritical somehow?

Well... Vegetarianism isn't as cut-and-dry as veganism. Vegans don't use animals for any purpose, and there's even heated debate in their community about keeping animals as pets. "Vegetarian" simply means to not eat product that comes from a dead animal. TECHNICALLY, they can wear leather, eat honey, and whatever else has to do with animals as long as they aren't ingesting the dead animal... Although most vegetarians are a BIT more strict by not buying leather (a product an animal has to die for, even though they don't ingest it). As long as the poster is currently not eating animals, they are considered a vegetarian. A vegan, on the other hand, would have a serious cow over such a consideration. A vegan wouldn't eat an egg from a chicken if it was the last food on earth because the hen "owns" that egg, and to take the egg (even if she's abandoned it on the other side of a deserted island) would be "stealing"... Vegans think that if you're even considering eating the animal, you should be stripped of your vegan title... "Veganism" is a way of life, whereas vegetarianism is more of a to-each-his-own choice of food.

Why is it that ANY people think that you want their opinion about your choices? On the other side of the coin, it seems to be, in my experience, that I won't mention my eating habits, but as soon as the new person in the group realizes I'm a vegetarian, the snide, rude comments start in... "Lambs eat grass, so in a roundabout way, you're eating grass... Have some stew." or "If we weren't supposed to eat animals, how come they taste so good?" "Mmmm, this bacon sure is tasty, look!" (then I get it shoved into my face)... What's the deal? Why are people so rude and disrespectful? You got me. It seems that no matter what you eat, you have to deal with morons on the other side who think you need to think what they think and do what they do.

And yes, I knew the possibilities of the thread, although I don't understand it...

Wow, sounds like she's going to have an interesting time of things. The only people she may get eating there are people with open minds, and good luck finding that these days!! She may have to post a sign on the door that tells people to check their opinions at the coat rack.


I appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions on the matter. I wasn't just asking for opinions on what you thought could be a solution, but also for other people's trials and tribulations in their attempts at farming from a veggie POV... So I'm glad to be getting those stories as well. It's just not very common online to find people with similar viewpoints who are willing to share their funny or exasperating stories, so I appreciate it.

According to my veterinarian, who is a semi-retired bovine lactation expert from the frozen north, most cow milk dairies overfeed corn to the point that the cows do overproduce and burn out by six years of age. If they managed their feed operations better, the cows could live (and produce) twice as long.

He still makes regular trips north for consultations, so I assume he knows his stuff.

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Yet another thing I don't get up in arms about... Life's too short to get all bent about lame things... Wouldn't you rather worry about... chocolate or vanilla?

Thanks for the great response, Texican! I think the rabbits will pay for themselves. I used to raise show rabbits and made enough money to cover their feed, shavings, cages, etc... Hopefully I can make that happen again. I plan on having sheep for fiber, so maybe I can get some fiber-happy customers who are willing to pay decently for the angora. I do like the idea of thinking of the rabbits are dual-purpose just because of the manure. I certainly do plan to use it on my own gardens, and I'm sure I could probably sell some as well. I also do plan to have ADGA goats. I've always loved showing animals, so since I am planning to do milk goats, that would definitely work to my advantage to have them registered. The extra rooster idea is great. I don't plan to have spare roosters in with the hens, so letting them roam would be fine with me. I don't think I'll end up with a million of them. Having had free range flocks in the past, I do realize they don't last forever, so I don't think I'll mind having several little "farm ambassadors"... I don't mind keeping hens past their productive life. I feel they've more than earned it... But in the past I only had about 250+ hens. In the future I plan to have more. I may change my tune once I'm feeding 500 non-layers. I love the Buddhist idea... I have a friend who also believes that veggies feel pain. I can't even think that way. If it's ever proven scientifically, I'll accept it. But until then... thinking of my food screaming silently as it boils just creeps me out! And on the worm thing... I didn't know this (obviously I'm not a big composter) until I started researching the worms yesterday, but they're probably coming to the surface when you set down a big piece of cardboard or paper because moist/wet cardboard and paper is one of their favorite treats. Also newspaper... Who woulda thunk!

Very interesting, Alice. Corn overfeeding. Hmmm. I've never been to a commercial goat milk dairy, but I wonder how they operate. I know some of them boast they have producers who are 11+ and still look fabulous. I wonder if their goats only get grain at milk time, like most home dairies? Would be interesting to look into.

I have to admit that some Vegans SCARE me, in fact I had to leave a Vegetarian Forum because the Vegans found out that we keep Bees...we have "enslaved Bees", "forcing them to pollinate the crops". I'm glad they didn't know about my chickens.
I respect where they are coming from but the viscousness was a bit much.

I like what Texican suggests about raising good quality Goats, we've considered that but with the economy as it is right now our goat adventures must wait. Quality goats require more than browse for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and around these parts goat feed and alfalfa aren't cheap (we have plenty of browse which is why we first thought about goats) so we'll spend this downtime learning all we can about raising and selling goats.
Worm Wrangling is pretty cheap and easy to get into and here in the Valley folks buy up the worm poo/tea for their gardens, patio plants and houseplants (that booth at the farmer's market always closes up early) There's a Worm guy down Eugene way that has to lock his wormbins because of thefts...valuable stuff!

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"At The Worlds Beginning There Was A Mother"
~ Chinese Tao Te Ching~

Vegetables screaming...Oh my, that reminds me how bad I felt pulling the Beets....~lol~... Downright silly huh!?

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"At The Worlds Beginning There Was A Mother"
~ Chinese Tao Te Ching~