Vegetarian Homesteaders - care to share? :)

I'm not flaming, but having been in the horse rescue business for a LONG time, I see people all the time who state they want horses for reason 1 but use them for reason 2 (i.e. adopt or buy a pasture pet and then begin riding or breeding it). What makes you think that people who buy your animals for pet purposes really intend to use them for such?
I always tell folks when rehoming/selling an animal, your rights end at your property line. They can say they want a buddy and they could even sign paperwork to that effect- but none of it forces them to do as they said.
I truely don't see a way for someone with beliefs such as yourself to make money and/or get rid of (said in the nicest possible way) an animal with a clear conscience.

This is why I recommend that should they no longer be able to care for the animal properly, particularly one with health or mental issues, that it be euthanized.

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

That's a good point.

I knew a woman back home who had taken an aged horse with health problems to the sale barn intending it be sold for slaughter. Why she didn't just have it put down, I'll never know, but she was a country woman who saw livestock as, well, livestock, and it seemed appropriate for her to get a few final bucks out of the thing. She was appalled, however, when someone outbid the slaughter buyers and apparently bought it as a pet, prolonging its suffering.

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

There's nothing wrong with flaming. Our culture, in general, doesn't have the basic respect for nature. Life is a gift no matter what form it comes in.

Hey Silverflame:

Best of luck to you. I do know what you mean. Although I am not a vegetarian (my wife is), I try to eat no meat unless I raised and killed the animal myself. And I really hate killing animals, so I'm not eating much meat. But you can't raise chickens without dealing with the extra roosters. You can't raise goats without dealing with the little billys.

We raise our animals humanely and treat them well. They live very good lives (particularly in comparison to the horrific CAFO life).

On our farm we would be overrun by deer if we didn't hunt them/allow others to hunt them.

Bottom line: I have come to the conclusion that there has to be some animal death in a truly sustainable farm. Someday that won't be true...

peace and best wishes

I really like the BBC show The Good Life/Good Neighbors. But I think they had The Good Life: Helen and Scott Nearing's Sixty Years of Self-Sufficient Living in mind. They chose not to have animals on their homestead.

My husband had a thought on the worms: why not just raise the small red ones that are strictly for compost piles and such? We have a guy out here who raises and sells them.

Sounds like you need to keep a very minimal number of animals for pets (or to rehome) and find a way to make your "profit" off plants. I understand to a point but....I am glad I can live the "easy way". Eat, drink and be merry. I hate to dispose of a producing plant but.... everything dies, God put them here for us to use AND enjoy. I make it a priority to NOT cause any undo suffering, one well placed bullet.... Waste not want not....James

Wow. I'm so excited to see that people actually responded and the thread hasn't been locked yet. You guys rock!

3 years??? I've had chickens still laying eggs daily at 13. Maybe they only lay for 3 years in commercial establishments because 3 years is the max most battery hen operations keep a hen before sending her to slaughter?

The "slaughter after production" thing is horrifying to me. My old neighbor used to raise pigs. He had a black pig and a white pig that we (inventive) teenagers named "Doc" and "Marten". Well, Doc wasn't having piglets. Had her checked by the vet, she was sterile for some unknown reason. Was eating breakfast at their house a few weeks later and the dad was like, "Want some bacon? It's Doc. Remember Doc? She's MIGHTY TASTY!" Yeah... I'm sure things like that didn't help an already-struggling omnivore turn vegetarian at all!!!

The rabbit manure I am thinking about selling for gardening. It's amazing stuff. I think the reason people think it's the most perfect of fertilizers has to do with the lack of nitrogen?? Something along those lines. It doesn't "burn" like other manure can. When our childhood neighbor complained about the rabbits "smelling", we offered her some manure as a peacekeeping. Her love in life was her rose bushes... Not a single complaint about the rabbits a few months later. She'd hear us in the back yard and ask if we needed her to take more "fertilizer" off our hands. *lol* We'd set the ladder next to the back fence and send her over full buckets (we lived in the city). She was a very happy gardener!

And yeah, the monk thing? *lol* It's like those people who were Breathatarians? Yeah, I'm trying to not allow myself to go off the deep end here. My family already thinks I'm insane.

Eh, I don't think that's hypocritical. At least you realize the weight of your decision to eat meat. Most people prefer to not know, and stop you from telling them... and then go buy a bucket of KFC. The fact that your eyes are open about what you're consuming I think is just fine. It's good to have respect for the animal who's giving his life, and the person who has worked hard to process it in a humane manner for you.

Most of my chicken population went the way of the wild animals. Bald Eagles, mostly... Naughty birds. But can't say I blame them. I practically set up a KFC in the middle of the Sahara. They were passing through and couldn't believe their eyes. It's baffling to me when people build a house on top of a cougar den and can't understand why the cats are stalking their dogs... What are dogs made out of? That's right, MEAT!

I would love to have honey bees, but am allergic to bees. I recently read that although you may be allergic to one type of bee, you may not be allergic to another though, and they can test you for the different types. I'm interested in going to get tested for honey bee allergies. Honey bees are awesome!

That's a great idea with the plastic sheets! I'll have to try it.

I actually researched the worm thing, and it seems people are still arguing about whether or not they feel pain. Apparently they've found something inside the "brain" that suggests that they do feel pain, as that's the part's only purpose? But you know, the debate goes on... Worms are very strange, I agree. I wish all the scientists would just agree for once!

Oh, I've done rescue before... I know what you mean! I guess I look at it like... If they say they're going to be bought as pets, I'm going to take them at their word. Unless I plan to make it high-maintenance by checking in on them and such, I couldn't guarantee how the animals was being used. Even checking in them, you can't be sure of it... And I CERTAINLY don't want to be playing babysitter. Once I sell the animal, I agree with you, it is out of my hands and I have no say in the matter.

I think the only way for me to have a clear conscience is to decide I'm going to feel a certain way about it, and stick with my decision. The only issue is deciding how I'm going to feel about it. I think if I advertise them as pets/fiber/packing animals and people buy them as such, that is fine, and I won't put further thought into it. I truly do feel it's a person's choice whether or not they eat meat. I also feel it's their choice to lie. When I was a young omnivore I used to tell people, "I don't care what your plans are for it, just don't tell me if you're going to eat it." Which was fine, except for people who are NOT going to eat it laugh and say "I just wanted a pet for the family," while people who ARE going to eat it don't respond, so you pretty much know at that point you're selling it to someone's dinner table... I'd rather not go through that. So I need to find a middle ground... Advertise them as pets. Sell them as pets. If I happen to end up with some in the end, sell them at auction. That way I don't have to ask and they don't have to lie... And I know plenty of animals who have gone for pets and breeders through the local auction... So there IS a chance of them not ending up as food. I just won't have the option of knowing. And I guess if that's as clear a conscience as I can get, then that's what I'll have to do... I'll just have to see how I feel about it later on. Because it's looking like that is my option, unless I only want to raise only a couple animals a year to be really crazy about the quality of homes they're going to... or not have animals at all.

Ugh. Yeah, if something is at the end of it's happy life, I'm definitely in agreement with putting it down. There is no reason to dump your "problem" on someone else, and every animal deserves that kindness. It's not worth making a few bucks on. My conscience would eat away at me!

(I responded so much the site told me to shut up! Can you believe it? )

Yes, I haven't thought far enough ahead yet to figure out what I'll do with the extra roos when I'm raising and keeping replacement chicks for my purebred flocks.

The horror!! I don't think I could do a "vegan homestead"... Animals are the thing that brings me the most happiness in life. If I can't have animals, a homestead wouldn't be worth it to me. Raising carrots certainly doesn't bring me the joy that hatching chicks does... I would truly feel like a chunk of my life was missing. Currently I'm living in an apartment... I've planted a flower bed out back and I raise tropical fish, snails, and dwarf shrimp, along with having pet mice and my 2 dogs. Life without animals is just... not really life to me. It's strange to not have livestock though.

He sells them for composting?? Interesting. I'm sure that people could use them for fishing too, but I'm guessing that's not their purpose. I've never thought about selling worms for compost purposes. Interesting! Thanks for the idea!!

And I think that's the best an animal can ask for that has to be killed. It's too bad it doesn't work that well in the commercial system.


Thanks for all the great responses, everyone!

Can I go with you?

Very interesting thread!
I'm a Vegetarian, we have Chickens (30 and want more) and sell the eggs, we've got folks wanting us to raise and sell for meat too...Dunno since I get attached to each special personality...~lol~... Property owner keeps hinting that he'd partner with us in a Rabbit for meat business...Dunno same reason as the chickens (we're already in a beekeeping partnership with him). Got some Indian Runner ducks, we keep getting asked if we're gonna breed to butcher.
We'd love to make more money from our critters and bee operation. (considering raising red wigglers for compost)

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"At The Worlds Beginning There Was A Mother"
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i am joining gone a milking, wolf mom and pretty paisley.

Yes, I just looked up the worm thing. Apparently there are 4 kinds of worms often used for composting, depending on exactly what you need. So that could be fun. I know rabbit manure grows MONSTER worms, so... Definitely a possibility there!

So you wouldn't have a problem raising animals that were going to be used for someone else's food? This is why I dig vegetarians... The community is so diverse and interesting. I used to raise rabbits for the meat trade when I was younger... It was back when I was still eating meat, but I had such a hard time with it. I was part of a co-op, so I just raised them, shipped them out, and got a check in the mail, and didn't have to have any part of the butchering, but I don't know how I feel about that anymore. I think vegetarians who eat meat-free for personal health (and not animal-loving reasons) have an easier time juggling the moral issues...

It'll be interesting to see what you choose, and how you feel about it. I like all the different perspectives. It's helpful to see how others feel about things and justify their choices.

Can anyone explain to me what the point is in posting to "not post"? Is it just a way of voicing that you disapprove or disagree with the subject matter without being rude?

And if so... what's the point in posting it?

And if you obviously don't agree with vegetarian homesteading practices, what's the point in clicking on the thread, since that much is obvious in the title?

If you just don't want to comment because you don't want to be a part of the flaming when it ensues, I can understand that, but I would think that would at least gain a somewhat sketchy thumbs up before you run away...

I appreciate you walking away rather than posting something nasty, obviously, but what's the point in the "I'm certainly saying how I feel about this, but without saying anything" post?

I'm curious.

Oh, we struggle with the very same things.
Unfortunately, I have no insights for you.
We want to have animals, but how many non producing animals can we afford to keep?
We 4 goats right now, 2 of them were billys (now wethers!) we even took then to a vet to get neutered like dogs do, rather than inhumanely banding them. (They were over 2 and VERY big.) One of them is great, it's like he had a labotomy, he's no mellow now. The other one is nothing but a prick. Ever hear of sterile billy syndrome? That's him. But we keep him, because we know no one would keep him as a pet. We feed him and provide for him, but we hate him!!!!! But we would never take his life.
The Good Life is a very good read. But they advocate veganism. No animal products whatsoever. I have to admit, alot of what they say makes sense. (Financially!)
I wish you luck in figuring things out. I think everyone is right, you need to find what works for you.
We're starting to keep bees next year, and I'm already feeling guilty about taking their honey!!

I think I'm going to post that "I'm not going to post" in a bunch of animal killing topics!

I was wondering the same thing!! Just don't post and then you are covered!! Seems simple to me.

I enjoyed reading your OP. I don't eat any meat excluding seafood. I am not much into animals besides dogs and cats so that helps a bit.

I love the idea of using the worms for composting. I could see myself buying some for that purpose.

A funny story...about a month ago I had gone out to my garden and saw that something was eating away at my tomatoes. Then I saw the creature...a green thing attached to the stem. Nearly camouflaged. I knew instantly that it was a hornworm. I've never seen one before but I just knew. It was war! They were eating my precious tomatoes. I don't buy tomatoes in grocery stores and while I love tomatoes I typically only get them for about 3 months a year. So I dutifully started pulling them off. It took FOREVER to find them. Had them all in a cup and realized ahh man, I can't kill them. I just couldn't. So I ended up walking to the very edge of my property and throwing them far into the woods. The whole thing was just a bit comical. As much as I don't really care for insects and such I just can't kill them.

Honestly, if I was to click on a post entitled "Butchering Hogs" and post "Hrm... " or something, people would get up in arms about it and tell me to stay out of the post if I didn't want to read about killing pigs...

By me posting about vegetarian choices, I would think that it would encourage people to laugh at me/the situation (in a friendly way) just like you would anyone else here. I know that a lot of veggie-types are hard to stomach because of the holier-than-thou approach, so I would think that maybe getting to know someone who isn't that way would be refreshing for some. By me posting about vegetarian choices I've made in my own life, I'm not threatening you. If you feel defensive, maybe you should take a look at why you're feeling that way. Are you feeling judged? And if so, why are you judging ME? If it's because you simply feel defensive about eating animals, maybe you should stop eating them. If it's because you've had bad experiences with vegetarians before, I'm sorry for that, but we are all individuals, and that's not what I'm here for, so I would appreciate not being lumped into the "evil vegetarian" role that you're used to.

I just don't understand why people feel they have to voice their displeasure. Is it necessary? I'm not judging anyone for their choices. I don't understand the purpose. "Thumper, what did your father tell you?" Saying you're not going to comment is a comment.

And on the topic of the worms... Hornworms are some of the strangest looking creatures on the planet! Can you believe how FAT they are?? I also don't kill insects. It's SO ridiculous, but I just can't. I take them outside and release them. Even spiders.

You worded it well.

Maybe they posted something, changed their mind and said they were stepping out instead? By commenting on it, you are making an issue of it, best to just leave it alone. (Said in a nice voice )

I think raising compost worms would be a great idea.