What kind of tractor to buy

SteveD(TX) · #21 12/15/03, 03:02 PM

I don't think you mentioned whether or not money was an issue, but it is with most folks. If it were me, I would probably do what someone else said and go with a decent new or used riding mower. I got mine cheap, barely used from Lowe's (returned for service and resold), a couple of years ago for $825. It is a MTD 17.5 HP with 42" cut, and will pull a small trailer load of firewood fairly easy. A decent used 4-wheeler will cost you three times as much, and you can't mow with it. Sounds like all you need; a larger tractor will be LOTS more and a waste of money, IMHO.

#22 12/15/03, 03:44 PM

Debbie,

You stated in you original post that you work full time, have no help, are not very mechanical and your place needs some work. You look like a prime candidate for some kind of a tractor. It also sounds like you know little about tractors so here is a very basic primer.
Smaller tractors or “lawn tractors” (looks like a riding lawn mower) generally range in the 8-18 horse- power category and are usually gasoline powered. Most are 2-wheel drive and most are used as lawn mowers. Some of the larger models can also take other implements such as a snow blower, snowplows, tillers and the like. Most of the implements are powered by a simple v-belt from the engine. All should be capable of pulling a small cart. Brands vary but some of the best are John Deere, Toro (wheel horse), Simplicity, Cub Cadet. These “tractors” have not really changed too much since the mid 70’s with the introduction of the hydrostatic transmission. You can find deals in the used category but do some research before you buy. Just because it has “John Deere” on the side does not make it a good machine. For instance the John Deere 318 is arguably just about the best lawn tractor you could buy but the John Deere 317 had some issues. Find a local dealer and talk to them about what you need in a machine.
Larger tractors (actually look like a tractor not a lawn mower) generally start at about 18hp and go to about the 30hp range. Most now are diesel, some of the older ones are gasoline powered. These machines are generally called “utility tractors” and the operative word is utility. They are capable of doing all kinds of farm chores based on the types of attachments you put on them. In the old days tractors were purchased to plow land and power implements (like a cord wood saw). The old machines had something called a drawbar that you attached a plow to and away you went. The implements were powered by a simple pulley and wide flat belt. Most of the old machines did not have or need a front-end loader and were two wheel drive.
Modern utility tractors have something in the rear called a 3-point hitch. This thing accepts numerous attachments and makes the tractor very versatile. Everything from a posthole digger to a backhoe is available for most modern tractors. In general, the hitch lowers and raises the attachment and it powers the attachment using a shaft that is attached to the tractors engine. Unlike the implements for a lawn tractor, the implements for a utility tractor are usually interchangeable with other utility tractors. Modern utility tractors are usually 4-wheel drive and have hydraulics systems. The hydraulic system is nothing more than a pump driven from the engine, oil, pistons and hoses. The pump pressurizes the oil, which travels through the hoses and actuates the pistons. Most modern utility tractors also come with a front-end loader, which is probably the most useful attachment you can get.
Above the utility class (30-200+hp) are both commercial and agricultural machines. Too big for you needs so don’t worry about them.
Purchasing a used machine is a real crapshoot. Unless you know what you are looking at, used iron is just that, “used”. Most of the used utility machines I have seen are literally beat to death and still hold value. If you are going to buy a used machine, have an independent qualified mechanic check it out for you. It will cost some money but used iron does not have any guarantees or lemon law protection in any state that I am aware of. Tractor repair costs can be staggering, which is why most people sell or trade in a used tractor. Used implements can be a real bargain but again you will need to know what you are looking at.
If you are going to buy new the brand names to look for are John Deere, Kubota, and New Holland/Ford. New tractors offer many advantages over used machines, assuming that you can afford to purchase a new tractor. They generally boil down to safety systems and ease of operation.
If buying equipment is out of the question, you can rent it. My local Kubota dealer rents equipment (with or without attachments) for about $50 an hour based on the machines hour meter. The price (8 hour minimum) includes fuel, delivery and pickup. If you plan your major projects right, you could rent a machine 2 or 3 times a year and never need to deal with payments or maintenance. It can also gives you a feel for a machine before you purchase it. You can also just contract out any major job you do not want to do yourself.
About the truck, without 4-wheel drive it would probably be next to useless at doing anything that required it be off the road. It is amazing how just a little rain or morning dew can tie up a rear wheel drive vehicle. Draft animals and working full time usually don’t mix on numerous levels. About the wheel barrel, if you have trouble balancing, try using smaller loads or working with it empty till you get the feel of it. You can also try a smart cart (http://www.whytehorse.com/smartcart.htm). They are very stable but can be somewhat front heavy if loaded improperly. Good Luck.

deberosa · #23 12/15/03, 10:08 PM

Thank you for the information everyone!

I do have a neighbor with a new tractor who will hire out for $65 an hour for the big jobs. I hate to impose, but then he is making $$$ ;-) There is a Kubota dealer a mile from here and I have checked them out. Not very helpful in shopping, but it's good to know that that is a good machine. I will have to know what I want before going there though. Have also checked out the John Deer Garden tractor you mention.

How long should I expect to use any of these tractors? The John Deer I looked at was about $2800 which is not bad if I could expect 10 years out of it.... Same with Kubota - a little more expensive, but they got cheaper as soon as I mentioned I looked at a Deere. Kubota place also offered service on site if I had a problem.

Thanks again for all of the input!

Debbie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Debbie,

You stated in you original post that you work full time, have no help, are not very mechanical and your place needs some work. You look like a prime candidate for some kind of a tractor. It also sounds like you know little about tractors so here is a very basic primer.
Smaller tractors or “lawn tractors” (looks like a riding lawn mower) generally range in the 8-18 horse- power category and are usually gasoline powered. Most are 2-wheel drive and most are used as lawn mowers. Some of the larger models can also take other implements such as a snow blower, snowplows, tillers and the like. Most of the implements are powered by a simple v-belt from the engine. All should be capable of pulling a small cart. Brands vary but some of the best are John Deere, Toro (wheel horse), Simplicity, Cub Cadet. These “tractors” have not really changed too much since the mid 70’s with the introduction of the hydrostatic transmission. You can find deals in the used category but do some research before you buy. Just because it has “John Deere” on the side does not make it a good machine. For instance the John Deere 318 is arguably just about the best lawn tractor you could buy but the John Deere 317 had some issues. Find a local dealer and talk to them about what you need in a machine.
Larger tractors (actually look like a tractor not a lawn mower) generally start at about 18hp and go to about the 30hp range. Most now are diesel, some of the older ones are gasoline powered. These machines are generally called “utility tractors” and the operative word is utility. They are capable of doing all kinds of farm chores based on the types of attachments you put on them. In the old days tractors were purchased to plow land and power implements (like a cord wood saw). The old machines had something called a drawbar that you attached a plow to and away you went. The implements were powered by a simple pulley and wide flat belt. Most of the old machines did not have or need a front-end loader and were two wheel drive.
Modern utility tractors have something in the rear called a 3-point hitch. This thing accepts numerous attachments and makes the tractor very versatile. Everything from a posthole digger to a backhoe is available for most modern tractors. In general, the hitch lowers and raises the attachment and it powers the attachment using a shaft that is attached to the tractors engine. Unlike the implements for a lawn tractor, the implements for a utility tractor are usually interchangeable with other utility tractors. Modern utility tractors are usually 4-wheel drive and have hydraulics systems. The hydraulic system is nothing more than a pump driven from the engine, oil, pistons and hoses. The pump pressurizes the oil, which travels through the hoses and actuates the pistons. Most modern utility tractors also come with a front-end loader, which is probably the most useful attachment you can get.
Above the utility class (30-200+hp) are both commercial and agricultural machines. Too big for you needs so don’t worry about them.
Purchasing a used machine is a real crapshoot. Unless you know what you are looking at, used iron is just that, “used”. Most of the used utility machines I have seen are literally beat to death and still hold value. If you are going to buy a used machine, have an independent qualified mechanic check it out for you. It will cost some money but used iron does not have any guarantees or lemon law protection in any state that I am aware of. Tractor repair costs can be staggering, which is why most people sell or trade in a used tractor. Used implements can be a real bargain but again you will need to know what you are looking at.
If you are going to buy new the brand names to look for are John Deere, Kubota, and New Holland/Ford. New tractors offer many advantages over used machines, assuming that you can afford to purchase a new tractor. They generally boil down to safety systems and ease of operation.
If buying equipment is out of the question, you can rent it. My local Kubota dealer rents equipment (with or without attachments) for about $50 an hour based on the machines hour meter. The price (8 hour minimum) includes fuel, delivery and pickup. If you plan your major projects right, you could rent a machine 2 or 3 times a year and never need to deal with payments or maintenance. It can also gives you a feel for a machine before you purchase it. You can also just contract out any major job you do not want to do yourself.
About the truck, without 4-wheel drive it would probably be next to useless at doing anything that required it be off the road. It is amazing how just a little rain or morning dew can tie up a rear wheel drive vehicle. Draft animals and working full time usually don’t mix on numerous levels. About the wheel barrel, if you have trouble balancing, try using smaller loads or working with it empty till you get the feel of it. You can also try a smart cart (http://www.whytehorse.com/smartcart.htm). They are very stable but can be somewhat front heavy if loaded improperly. Good Luck.

fordy · #24 12/15/03, 10:33 PM

One last point about John Deere mowers.....I have been told that you can ONLY buy parts from a JD dealer(can you say expensive). Which means that you will have to take it back to a JD dealer for repair. Mowers like toro, snapper , cub cadet, murry all use alot of the same parts which means anybody can fix their machine without having to return it to the dealer. One source for parts translates into Expensive parts and un-necessarily high labor rates for repairs when necessary........s.kuteman

:no:

earthship · #25 12/16/03, 07:04 AM

"How long should I expect to use any of these tractors? The John Deer I looked at was about $2800 which is not bad if I could expect 10 years out of it...."

The smaller John Deere's are made by Yanmar and you can get parts in many places. Deere's go for a premium - must be that green paint - The price of 2800.00 is good - I assume this is a small unit? 10 years in the life of a good tractor is nothing. There are thousands of 50 year old plus tractors ;-)

gobug · #26 12/16/03, 09:04 AM

I'm looking to buy also. Lots of good advice, thanks to all. Different years, makers and models all have their own foibles. Here's a web site to help sort it out. Just for tractor talk.
http://www.ytmag.com/crawlers/wwwboard1.html

#27 12/16/03, 09:13 AM

Debbie,
In the $2800 price category you are looking at a very small lawn tractor. Both Kubota and John Deere make excellent lawn tractors. Both will run you premium prices compared to other brands but both will retain resale value. The John Deere 318 I mentioned before is an older model. I don’t think JD produces it any more. Last used 318 I saw was going for $4800. The 318 is an excellent used machine but is usually very difficult to find. People just don’t want to sell them.
The numbering system on John Deere tractors can be very confusing. Basically, John Deere makes (or used to make) 4 sizes of lawn tractors: 100, 200, 300 and 400 series. All of the tractors in a given series used the same size tractor frame. The differences in the numbering come down to engines that were available. For instance the 317 was a 3 series tractor with a 17 horse power Kohler engine. The 318 was a 3 series tractor with a 18 horse power Ohan engine. Otherwise the machines were the same. I am not sure if John Deere still uses this kind of numbering system with its lawn tractors as I have not shopped for one in years. When shopping for a tractor be sure to mention to the sales people that you intend to use it to pull a cart and mow x # of acres per week plus what ever else you need it to do. You might need a little more grunt than $2800 will provide.
As far as how long a machine will last? It varies depending on how much you use it and how well you take care of it. Life of equipment is measure in operating hours as measured by an hour meter (basically a digital clock attached to the engine). When the engine is running the clock records running time in hours. Small lawn tractors may not have an hour meter but all larger equipment will. Estimated life span of a small gas powered aircooled motor should be about 2000 hours. If you log around 100 hours a year, it will last you about 20 years (200 hours=10 years etc). If the engine is liquid cooled, it should go about 3000 hours. Diesels are generally much more robust than a gasoline counter part and should go about 5000 hours. I have seen industrial diesels go for over 10000 hours before major service is needed. This is measuring the life span of the engine not the rest of the components. In most cases, if the engine dies and the tractor is still in good condition, you can replace the motor and keep going.
Tricks to get maximum life out of your equipment. If at all possible, keep your equipment in an outbuilding (old barn, garage) out of the elements. If you can keep it off a dirt floor, so much the better. Dirt floors have a nasty habit rusting the underside of anything stored on them for extended periods of time. Rust is the enemy of all lawn mowers especially the mowing deck. Always check the oil level of the engine before you start it. Keep up with the required maintenance. Aircooled engines will benefit from frequent oil changes and cleaning of the cooling fan and fins. Invest in a small air compressor and blow down your tractor after each mowing session. Removing the chaff and dirt from the engine will help it run cooler and last longer. Have a mechanic or a trusted friend show you how to change the oil in your tractor. Have them show you how to clean the air filter. Learn how to remove and sharpen the mowing blades (keep them sharp). If you don’t want to do this yourself have the local dealer service the machine at least once a year. Lastly, don’t push your equipment beyond its capacity. Really put some thought into what you need your machine to do and how quickly you need to get it done. Buy what you need plus a little extra for the times when you are in a hurry or need that little boost. Leave the big jobs to the big equipment. Good luck.

deberosa · #28 12/16/03, 09:41 AM

I think is was the LT1xx series that I was looking at. My brother says it's worth getting the two pedal transmission feature, he does maintenance at a campground with one in the summer. They let me drive one in the parking lot of the store - guess they know how to sell their stuff! ;-)

Good to know about putting them on a dirt floor. I was going to keep my tractor in the barn, but sounds like it will get a place of honor in the garage if I get one. ;-) Especially with the dampness around here.

Debbie

Alex · #29 12/16/03, 06:25 PM

I've been thinking about your upcoming purchase.

You know, I have had those lawn tractors - had some townhouses, with about 3 acres around them, needed to mow that grass often - it was good for that.

And, its not a real tractor. Think if you want a tractor or a lawn mower with expensive cart to haul stuff around. The real tractor won't cost that much more for what you get and can do so much more - if you need to do so much more - and will last a long time.

The lawn tractor will work great to cut that lawn - for awhile, and it might be just what you need. Take your time and look around and think about it.

Don't let your heart fall in love with the new green paint at the John Deere or orange at the other dealers. Stand back take a break and think about it (as I said above) - you can have an older tractor fixed up as nice as you want.

Good luck and enjoy whatever you get.

Alex

deberosa · #30 12/16/03, 10:31 PM

Thanks Alex for the VERY wise advice. ;-)

Just tonight I went to home base - checked out those pretty green John Deere's, then on the way home passed the pretty Orange tractors with the 0% interest for 36 months and 0% down. ;-)

Patience is not one of my strong points, but I do need to think this one through thoroughly.

#31 12/17/03, 12:21 AM

[QUOTE=deberosa]Hi,

I have just purchased my 4.5 acre farm this fall and want to start a homestead. My question is what kind of tractor will I need - do I need one and how do I decide?

My advice would be to stay away from the 8/9N Ford, 20 Fergusons. One reason is they are usually overpriced and you can buy better models for very little more. A more important reason is they lack live power, and more important in my opinion, live hydraulics . My hay is baled in small (4'X4') round bales by a neighbor. When I brought it in from the field with my 8 N I had to back up and "stick" the bale, put the tranny in neutral, raise the bale, put the tranny back in gear and take it to the barn. When the clutch is engaged in the 8/9 Ns it kills all power to the PTO & hydraulic systems. When bush hogging it is easy to stall these under powered tractors if you try to cut something a little too big, when you clutch it wont raise the 3 point hitch, and the blades stop turning. More than once I have had to take a machete and flail away UNDER the mower to free it, not much fun. A much more suitable option would be a 600 series, or a 3000 Ford. I soon replaced the 8 N with a 3000 with a front end loader with power steering. I wouldn't have any tractor with a front end loader unless it had power steering, they can be difficult to handle to the point of being downright squirrely. Just a couple more things to think about, in case you didn't have enough.

MelissaW · #32 12/17/03, 08:50 AM

Hi Debbie! I'm no expert on tractors (DH has that covered), and you've already gotten so much great advice, but I thought I'd chime in with a woman's opinion. Our property sounds similar to yours, and we have lots of tractors, including a backhoe loader and a skid steer. I, personally, feel most comfortable driving the Ford 8N. It is great for preparing the garden, hauling a trailer, and digging holes with the post hole digger attachment. I'm average sized (5'5", 125 pounds), and the big tractors are just too much for me to handle comfortably. With a finish mower, the chores are done in a snap. I think our model is a 1948, and aside from regular maintenance and a new set of tires, it has been problem free. Here in Ohio, they average 2-3 thousand dollars. A lawn tractor is easy to drive too, but ours doesn't have the clearance to haul firewood out of the woods. You are very admirable to take on a homestead alone. You go girl!