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  #21  
Old 09/07/10, 10:47 AM
haypoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern Michigan (U.P.)
Posts: 9,489
Hay balers only break when they are being used.
If you have cut and raked your hay and it is ready to bale, you will lose your crop while you figure out what's wrong and/or wait a few days for the parts to come in. Working three good drying days into an off farm job schedule seldom works well.
Pasture your land and buy bales. Help the guy that bales your hay. You'll learn how dry is just right and what is a bit too damp. Watch close and you'll learn how a knotter works and how to set a rake so it doesn't throw dirt or roll your hay into a rope.
Birdsfoot treefoil takes lon.ger to dry than grass hay
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  #22  
Old 09/07/10, 12:06 PM
Callieslamb's Avatar  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 16,408
I think the BFT is out for hay fields. I might sow some in the pasture to see what it does. It seems like it would be a problem MIXED with the grass for hay if they dry at different ratesan since we get frequent rain. Clover will do better in hay then? Alfalfa the best? If we could afford to do it, perhaps we should consider taking a piece and replanting with alfalfa and timothy and _________??? Leave the rest to be oversown/frost seeded and mowed for improving?

Yes, I think you have described all the balers I have seen well enough. Sounds like we would do well to have have a few spare parts on hand? Of all the years I spent on the back of a hay truck, I never once raked hay. My older sister was a mechanical wizard and did all of that work. We haven't decided on doing our own hay. We have to choose between providing for what is ours and being dependent on others. Being dependent hasn't worked out too well for us so far.

I am a pretty sure who is going to get to do the bulk of anything we do. But it's interesting to watch my city boy hubby watching 'how to bale hay' Utube videos in the evenings. I think he has watched one of every small sq and ever compact baler that has ever been built. He understands machines. That is one advantage we have. When you have an off-farm job, you'd better have a darned good hired hand or a wife. With as little hay as as we have to do, each job can be done in just a short amount of time. It won't take more than an hour or two to mow or rake.....barring breakdowns- of course. At worst, if we choose to bale, we will have spent money and have to spend more. At best, we will be providing more for ourselves and make our place more productive. Not sure what landing in the middle will do for us.
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  #23  
Old 09/07/10, 12:33 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,609
Alfalfa is the best hay for baling if you can grow it. It is harder to dry down, works better with a more spendy mower-conditioner to dry it quicker, but it regenerates more tonnage more faster than anything else, and needs no N fertilizer. It dies use a lot of P & K and micro nutirients tho. It doesn't like wet roots or low spots with heavy soils. You should get 2 or 3 or 4 cuttings from it every year depending how far north you are, how soon your weather warms up, how even your summer rainfall is. It has leaf hoppers & aphids that like to mess it up, need to spray for the bugs if that becomes a cronic outbreak in your area.

Clover makes a good mix for a pasture to graze. It does not regrow fast enough to make good hay, and it dries down kind odd, hard to get it good for a bale all by itself. It's not worth planting to bale, much better options. Sure doesn't hurt if some is in the hay ground, not worth trying to make a pure stand to bale tho.

Grass hay one will bale once or twice a year, first cutting ends up stemmy & rained on, over ripe most of the time. 2nd cutting ends up tender & fine and good protien.

Horse people are fantics about having this all just so, and paying a king's ransom for thier own version of perfect hay.

For us cattle & sheep growers, forget allt hat perfect crap.

A mixed field of some grasses, some legumes works well for baling. They help each other to give you a good reliable feed source year in and year out.

Mixed grass & alfalfa is hard to get growing - the alfalfa takes over the first year, then slowly dies year after year as the grass takes hold. In 7 years you';ll have a mostly greass hay field.

Mixed grass & clover is good. The clover tends to have good years and bad years, you will see more or less clover year to year.

You rely on the grass in the mix for fiber & bulk. The legume in the mix (alfalfa or clover) helps add protien, add digestability, and puts nitrogen back into the soil for the grass to use.

As you cut & rake, they will dry themselves together into the proper moisture content. Each cutting will end up with a different mix of too ripe, or just right alfalfa & grass, or clover & grass. Some seasons the grass will stall out, and you get a thin cutting of alfalfa. Other years the bugs will devistate the alfalfa, but the grass will be gorwing ok.

Birds foot trefoil is a very specialty crop used for some grazing situations. It does work well, and a few added to your pasture won't be a bad thing in any event. Pretty yellow blossoms if you let it grow.

Corn stalks I mentioned earlier are just that - corn stalks spit out behind the combine, cattle graze them eating up the leaves & husks and fallen ears of corn. Around here 1000's of acres of stalks are baled now, to be part of the feed for cattle in feedlots.

It is difficult to do both hay & pasture on 5 acres. Will you have the neighbor's 2 acres, or more, available for some time in the future? In my brain any such deal can be fun, but it needs to return more than it costs to be fun. That will be difficult on 5 or 7 acres. If you get to 10, then being self-sufficient on the hay with both pasture & hay ground starts to work 'here'.

Would would be great is to have (5) 2-acre pastures, and rotate your livestock through them. In spring as hay grows faster than the critters can eat it, you mow & bale 2 or so of the pastures. This would be a typical livestock mostly-grass fed system. You would overseed some legumes into your current hay, and the rotational livestock and mowing every other year or so will build up the grasses in short time, no need to plant more grass.

That would be ideal, but you are limited by the size of your land. I know, one has what one has & has to make it work out. You're just a tad small to make the payments & produce enough..... Heck, i greaze out parts of the lawn and around buildings here on the farm to help with the pasture, whatever one can use.

--->Paul
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  #24  
Old 09/07/10, 01:32 PM
springvalley's Avatar
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callie, all I can say is move down here next to me and we can help each other bale hay. I need help and you need someone with equipment and knowledge. >Thanks Marc
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  #25  
Old 09/07/10, 01:40 PM
swamper
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,030
It is invasive. I have it planted in wet sandy soil, but only as deer food, which they seem to not get enough of in the summer. It takes the pressure off the clover. I let the weeds and Indian Grass grow in some spots and the Trefoil just grew up the weed stems, plus it seems to hold longer in cold weather when it is in with the weeds. It grows more thick if it is mowed though. I planted it ten years ago and haven't reseeded since. But then, I'm not haying it either.
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  #26  
Old 09/07/10, 03:44 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 16,408
Rambler, I think you should write me a book. I will pay dearly. What, when, how to plant. When to harvest, when to see it's all going wrong (but I think I have that one down). do this and don't do that. do you do Utube videos?

Nope we don't have enough land to do it all.....but we have enough to do some. I should be able to graze the cow and a few sheep on the 2 acres. Leaving 3 for hay. SHOULD the operative work. We are 1 cow to an acre in grazing here. I can probably always use the neighbor..not sure if I want to. It isn't a stable relationship and he is rather - ummm.....off on drugs part of the time. I can buy 5-20 acres to the north of me any time but it's under lease until next year. Not sure I want to - would be more likely to get rid of the sheep instead. I'm not getting younger very fast. The cow is the priority. Everything else exists to support the cow.

We get 3 cuttings here - sometimes four, but I don't think I would want to stress my fields with 4 (or pay for the fertilizer to keep the grass growing). We have light sandy soil in spots and clayish in others. Mostly, it averages out to average. I don't have any wet spots. I will look at some grass blends with clover in them which seems to be the general planting. I need to look at my far grass there might not be any alfalfa there now and I could see it there. I would like tofind something more permanent though. Alfalfa seems a bit picky for a beginner. I don't want to have to keep reseeding it every other year.

I don't have to make money at this. It would be nice if the entire venture would pay for itself. And I don't have to add the cost of hay equipment to the mix. We would just buy that and call it done. it would be great if it paid off..... It's more being able to do it that's important. We may still decide that the time involved with hay is just too much. It is certainly easier to have it delivered, but it's easier to get my milk and veggies at the store too!
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  #27  
Old 09/07/10, 03:55 PM
Callieslamb's Avatar  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 16,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by springvalley View Post
callie, all I can say is move down here next to me and we can help each other bale hay. I need help and you need someone with equipment and knowledge. >Thanks Marc
It's a deal. You find the DH a job equal to what he does here and we'll be right down!!! We're only here for the job and Blackwillowfarm.....(hint: he holds the more patents than anyone else in the corporation of Whirlpool - so something in designing is a must- preferably pumps and/or drain systems. And if he could drag me along to China or Italy or Poland once in a while that would be good too).

I would love to haul hay for someone else.....sure I would!! LOL!! You might find me poor help. My dad always said the poorest man on the crew was the first one to the water jug...just as I was about to take my first drink. And I thought I winning meant beating him to it.
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  #28  
Old 09/07/10, 03:57 PM
Callieslamb's Avatar  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 16,408
[QUOTE=jross;4627363]It is invasive. .............QUOTE]

And it has a yellow flower? I wonder if that's the weed I already have growing all over and the neighbor too- him more than me. Kind of climbs up everthing else? I haven't noticed them eating much of it.
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