Do I really need a plow?

You guys/girls are the best. Thanks for all the information and help. I appreciate your input! I have come to the conclusion that what ever I decide is going to involve work. I'm too small to get someone else to want to come in a bale for me. It's too expensive for me to get good equipment and bad equipment is a head ache. Fertilizing fields to keep up the hay production costs almost as much as the hay would be to buy. Corn sounds very complicated. What else is left for me to consider? Hay is going to cost me $1200 this year. I would like to find some way to make that amount of money so I can continue to BUY hay. Or I need to find a way to cut down the amount of hay that I buy.
So, I need to extend my grazing time OR use an acre or two to do something else. You all make hauling hay sound like the easy work on a farm! Silly me, I thought those 200 bales we unloaded last night an unending experience. ANd..to tell the truth..I am not sure I can drive a tractor straight enough to not cultivate my precious corn right out of the ground.

Rambler -- Do you give farming lessons? I think if I knew half of what you did, I would offer them. What exactly does a harrow do? What I thought was harrowing would only need to be done once. If farmers have to do all that...it's a good thing they have a tractor or 2 or 3. The main reason I picked corn to grow was because it will be taller than the 2-3 feet of snow I can expect. I will not be harvesting the corn off the ears at any rate. You have made some really good points for me to consider. Obviously corn is a lot more work than I thought for a couple weeks worth of grazing at the most. If I already had the equipment for other ventures it would make more sense. Darn that logical factor.

Marc: yes, I still have some good grasses - even alfalfa. Under all the taller uncut stuff. 4-5 years ago, the fields were totally replanted. Then the folks sold the place; the new owners didn't have animals and did nothing with the fields. He was killed in a motorcycle accident; the place was empty for a year then we bought it last year. I am trying to learn about frost seeding, which I think is a good alternative for me. It's the dandelions, burdock and canary grasses that are taking over that are my biggest worry.

Molly: thanks for the price - ouch. How did you know why I really wanted a tractor? Dh can fix anything - I have seen him do it many times over. BUT...it's the time to do it. He even has tools that he can make metal parts and the computers to run them.....BUT, it's all about time. And breaking down with hay already cut....waiting for mr perfect to get a part just right.....scary!

Motdaugrnds: Yes, I could do that..it's the time involved. I just don't have it. God bless you for being able despite your limitations! You are one tough dude...dudette. I did think of planting with the tractor and doing all the cultivating with my tiller. BUT...that would mean planting the rows further apart, I think.

FBB : don't stop now!!! Haygrazer is an interesting plant. Is it perennial or annual? Will they pasture on it before it's hay? What happens if it rains for a week non-stop and it was already 16 inches tall? that's what happened to me this year -without the hay maker. Then I had no way to mow the tall stuff down to punt a cutting and get ready for the next. Yes, I could graze my cow or sheep around the equipment...but that wouldn't make my argument about having it lying around sound so good. ( I also have a weedeater..... but someone would have to run it). You make feeding corn sound like hard work. Dh has already warned me that he is not shucking corn - he's allergic to it....as well as all grasses. I would rather just let them into the corn patch when the other pasture is gone. If the ears are a bit underdeveloped...so much the better. And I also have a pregnant cow to consider. Evidently grazing expectant mothers on corn isn't a good idea. I don't think I will have enough corn to make a difference in calf size, but I do have to consider it.

I think I am back to the old 'you gotta have money to make money' or 'you gotta have equipment to grow crops efficiently'. RATS!!!

Anyone good for any other options that don't involve me feeding pigs? Dh says no pigs, no elephants.

Thanks again. You have given me lots to think about.

Haygrazer is a member of the milo family, and like milo, it only grows by being planted, and replanted every year.

You talked about expensive old machinery. I have my dads JD steel wheeled hay rake, I havnt had to do anything to it, other than keep it greased, and oil in the gear box. The horse mower I mentioned in another post, I hadnt used it in years, I had tipped over my Cub farmall mowing out along my driveway, and decided, Id rather use the sickle mower to reach over the edge of the bank. The pitman stick had rotted. I replaced it, and sharpened the sickle, and cleaned out the gearbox, as water had got in it. It worked perfectly. My bailer had been bought from a man who had used it to bale all over the country. After I had used it several years, a chain had stretched which threw the bailer out of time, and that crashed the needles. New needles, which I already had, and a new chain $25, and im ready to bail again. If you buy GOOD used machinery, you wont have EXPENSIVE problems, UNLESS, u dont use it amd take care of it, and lubricate it like u should. AND IF that were to be the case, you would have the same problems with new machinery, and it will be a WHOLE lot more expensive repairing new machinery than used, since theres still a market for it.

Igo to the extra measure to use old, OLD, O L D farm equipment. Thats just me. Im useing machinery that my grandad, and dad, had. It reminds me of when I was a kid, and everybody used such equipment. It takes me out of Okla, and back to NE Kans. YOU dont have to get such old equipment. There are good used equipment out there to be had and used and maintained that is really reasonable. For an example, and this also goes with plows, Sickle mowers have become obsolete with the advent of disc mowers. There wasnt one thing wrong with sickle mowers. They worked perfectly, they still do. My fields are ALWAYS cleaner with a cleaner cut than the fields around me, AND my fields are always cleaner raked than the big long rakes that most use around here. Sickle mowers go for a song now because they have become obsolete now, AND, theres a number of people comeing onto the scene like you folks, who know nothing about farm machinery, and you see sickle mowers discarded and think that after 150yrs, something became wrong with them, and a EXPENSIVE disc mower is what is needed. THATS BS, Same way with plows. Nobody uses them anymore, and so they have become cheap. They still do what they were built to do, but new people think they have to have a pto roatary tiller behind their tractor.
HARROW. U use a harrow for 2 different reasons. With the teeth laid back, u use it to run over a newly SOWED, NOT DRILLED field of grain. Sowed grain is laying on the top of the ground, and harrowing over it puts it under the ground a bit. With the teeth down, its used for the first cultivation of row crops, as its less invasive to the tiny plants , it dosent root out as much as a cultivator schovel, AND it dosent cover up the young plant like a Cultivator schovel would.

Callieslamb,
Did you look at the option of rotational grazing with electric fences and paddocks? You could then build up your pasture a couple of paddocks at a time. Give yourself some breathing room before you overinvest in equipment and seeds. As the paddocks mature, you would have the option of putting up loose hay in stacks(equipment optional) an acre at a time while still grazing other areas ....... With well managed grass/legume mixtures, you could carry over some livestock until cold weather hits and then switch to haystack feeding. The number of animals you can keep will be determined by the amount of your grass and hay, so you would be able to build up to that number in increments.

The suggestions you have gotten from all over the country have been good, but you must always remember you are trying to "farm" Lake Michigan sand dunes. Highly deficient in nitrogen, and leaching out the other nutrients--as well as becoming instantly "dry" just when things start going good. Growing almost any kind of farm crop--and especially corn, will require huge inputs of Nitrogen from somewhere--manures, commercial fertilizers, or legumes--and possibly a combination of all of them. If your soil is your bank account(capital), then corn is the number one depleter.

And, once you turn over your Michigan sand, you have to quickly re-cover it with something, or you risk losing what little organic, humus content it has. Growing corn would increase that risk. It can be done, but then, you will need even greater inputs of Nitrogen and other nutrients and some way of replenishing the lower humus content. And your soil will go into downward spiral--back to Lake Michigan sand dune. You would have to do what the bigger farmers do, put ammonia, use Roundup, and do no-till--think equipment costs-- (At that point you will have no other option than raising Christmas trees....)

Another point is that corn is probably not the best choice for late Fall grazing, with the method you have suggested--that of letting the corn just grow semi-randomly and turning animals in. Corn just doesn't have nearly the protein content that you could already have with well managed grass/legume mix which you have grown to still be there before cold weather dormancy. And, in all likelihood, around here, the deer would manage to steal a lot of ears from you before you had a chance. You have really described the way of creating a deer plot.......

You are at that in-between point with five acres tillable. Too small for conventional equipment, too big for manual labor. You have to think outside the box. Your neighbor quit baling for you because his margin disappeared. You can't bale because it's too expensive to buy and maintain the usual equipment. But people put up haystacks long before there were balers. The trick is to find a balance that won't cost you an arm and a leg--costwise and literally...... I think you could do it with a toothed landscape rake , and a buckrake attachment-- might need an engineer and a welder....

If you would still insist on growing corn, here's a suggestion: do it as a part of a rotational scheme, as required anyway since you will want to renew and renovate your pastures. (You can't grow the same legumes--especially alfalfa--forever, anyway in the same field) Choose one paddock a year, plow it under, and mine the Nitrogen from the legumes to grow your corn. BUT, make it popcorn, tortillia, or flint/flour corn, cornhusk dolls. Aha! something to sell! And a niche market, at that. Or if it busts, then feed it out. Sound like a plan?

Have you made that trip to Decatur--Southern Michigan Seed? They may just have a system that matches Michigan soils.

geo

Here we do that with Oats or Wheat and undersow with Alfalfa or Clover. But we also harvest them off in the fall instead of letting the animals graze it off. Then the second year we will have a fair hayfield or pasture.

Never tried the Haygrazer that FBB mentions. Sounds like he might know better than me.

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If the grass looks greener it is probably over the septic tank. - troy n sarah tx

Our existance here is soley for the expoitation of CMG

FBB - they have something besides sickle mowers? I guess that ages me. I remember my mom having to run to town for my dad to buy more of the teeth to go on the mower and tines for the rake. I don't mind old equipment. Getting it in working order is another matter.

GEO -I think dry stacking hay would be way more work than baling it. Less equipment, true....but time wise? I don't have my mind made up to do anything yet. These guys have given me a good idea of what it is going to take to produce just 1 acre of corn. I don't think the necessary equipment will justify the crop's output. Making hay is looking better and better. Or maybe a small fruit U-pick.

The best way to make some money from a farm the size of yours is to be able to file a schedule F with your taxes. With your husband working, the loss will save you money on taxes. I would download the schedule F, instructions, and the Farm Tax guide from the IRS website and read them. You have different amounts of time to show a profit depending on what you are raising. The key is intent to make a profit and keep careful books, and all your paperwork.
A small fruit u-pick type of place might be a better use of your land than corn or hay. It may be more profitable too.

If your husband is like mine, and it sounds like he is, machinery running not quite right will drive him nuts until he has it fixed perfectly. With older equipment he will be fixing not only normal wear, but all the things others fixed cheaply and as easily as possible but not right. This can take time, especially if he can make parts, rather than spend the money to buy them. I think there is a law that says farm equipment only breaks when you really need it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

IMO the tiny acreage you have isn't hardly even worth getting a tractor for. A little 20ish hp 8n, Case VAC, Farmall C would do your work and more. Personally, I'd get a good Gravely or BCS and call it enough. Anything larger is just a status symbol.

Rather than plowing, growing corn, etc, I'd work the land you have and try to restore it's fertility. Let native grasses suited to your climate grow. You'd be far better off buying a few loads of manure from a dairy and having them spread it than anything else. Don;t know if that's an option, but think about it.

Anything's an option. It's if I want to do the work involved. We have decided against corn. It's isn't worth it and we are too inexperienced. We found another custom baler in the area. I will talk with him next week. We also have a tractor repair guy near us. DH spoke with him on recommendations...but that's kind of like asking the people I buy hay from if I should bale my own hay or not. I think we are going to stick with making hay. I am looking at frost seeding this spring - darn! I could use a tractor for that too. LOL!! Perhaps I can find some forage legumes that will help the fields be more productive.

I can only wish there was another dairy around here anywhere. I am surrounded by orchards, vineyards and row crops. I had to beg my local feed store to carry grain for my cows for me.

Here are my hay fields uncut all year.

Callie, I'm so glad you started this thread, it applies to us as well.. We have 10 acres, no stock and lots of weeds.

We have a White garden tractor with a 3pt hitch which is pretty strong and bigger than a lawn tractor. Earlier this year Orscheln's had a cultivator by Agri-Fab that we picked up for 1/2 price, which was about 600. The cultivator has it's own motor and does a good job on the garden, haven't tried it in the field yet, but I think it's coming to that and think it will do well. It is the only ground breaking equipment that we have (excluding the walk behind garden tiller) and by going over it two or three times it becomes fine enough to plant in. We would still like to have a tractor but, like you the expense is a killer and we don't know enough about them to buy intelligently, not to mention the attachments. Question to those who know, how does one discourage weeds in the hay field ? Chemicals not a preference.

One thing we learned, is that cutting whatever grass is growing out there at about one foot, seems to discourage the weeds a bit and encourages the red clover to spread -which the deer really like. OTOH, my Son is gone most of the time and he does the field, while I try to keep up with the yard.

I hear so much about improving the land that I do what I can. We partially heat with wood and so those ashes have gone into the garden and over the yard. Grass clippings from the yard also go to garden or compost piles. Lots of extra work with the grass catcher, but the grass adds nitrogen, till the grass in in the fall, till the ashes in in the spring. We inherited lots of trash (oil containers, soda containers-plastic and cans, baling twine, all very rough on mowers and expensive even with us doing the repairs. Still cleaning up. Part of what I'm trying to say is that improving the soil is not cheap, but you can do a lot with manual labor. Tractors and other equipment need barns / sheds, that we don't have either.

Hope this thread continues, as I need the info also.

Katy,
around here it is learn as you go. I have too little land for a custom baler to take me seriously and I will be last on the list of fields baled. I have too much land to just graze the animal I have. I can bale my own hay or buy it. I can use some land for something else. It isn't an easy choice.

I could have saved my hay this year if I had just had a way to mow it down. Once it got too tall I was lost. I did keep my neighbor's 2 acres we were pasturing on mowed for a while with the lawn mower. that was myform of rotational grazing - mow 1/3 of it at a time to keep them eating elsewhere. We had a chance of rain every week- didn't always get it, but the balter I had coming wouldn't come with more than a 30% chance. When he did have a chance to get out and bale, it wasn't my little spot first. The only 2 weeks we had without a chance of rain was when his dad died. It was a bad year for us. If I could have had it mowed - I would still have the ability to bale some hay even now. Luckily, others got plenty put up and we can buy it for a decent price. It just isn't a practice we want to continue unless we find a venture to cover the $1200 we can expect to spend each year.

I have been improving my garden soil with manual labor, but 4 acres of hay fields are too much for me to consider. Here, we don't fertilize until after the 1st cutting. So, we didn't fertilize either...waiting for that baler-guy. Let's start a new thread on hay fields - this is probaly too much for others to read to get to your question. And I'd like to know the answer too!

It is true that it would be cheaper to buy hay. But if we used that reasoning to decide which things we'd do as homesteaders, we would probably just move to town and buy everything. It's hard to compete money wise with someone who is a specialist and does things on a large, more efficient scale.

So it comes down to what you like doing. We all have to do something besides our professional job.

NOw that's a great argument. If I was only after cheaper, I would buy my veggies, milk and meat in town. Then I could go back to my former life of a daily visit to the gym, home decorating worries, and lunch with friends on a daily basis.....enlisting their help in what fingernail polish to buy.

You can buy a used single plow for around $100 and you wouldn't necessarily have to keep it stored inside anywhere. Lean it up against the elm tree behind your house would be good enough. However, I think you would be better off with a disc harrow and disk the whole area up that you want to plant on and plant spring oats on it. You don't have to break the ground up deep, just enough to rake it out and sow your oats.

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r.h. in oklahoma

Raised a country boy, and will die a country boy.

What about weeds? Do the oats keep the weeds back enough? Can you sow oats in the fall or do you want until spring?

No oats won't keep the weeds out. When we lived in WI we planted oats as a cover for alfalfa. Do you have any neighbors with equipment that would have time and be willing to plow, disc, drag and plant the fields for you? If they have time in the fall to prepare the land and plant in early spring, they might have the time.
My husband will do what they call clipping around here-- mow about eight inches high so the weeds are trimmed in the fall and the grass can still store nutrients for winter.
Be careful that you don't plant some type of vetch or other crop that does not have strong stems if you want to make any hay in the future. They tend to tangle very badly and without one of the new fail mowers can be almost impossible to mow. The are also slow to dry.