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08/25/10, 03:07 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txrider
I would take exception to that, in the shallower coal bed methane fracturing at depths as shallow as 600 feet or so there is clearly possibility to damage and or pollute aquifers.
For most shale and other gas wells though, it's several thousand feet down, and of no danger to water aquifers at all.
As well, underground disposal of brine can also ruin aquifers if not done properly. Especially in areas where they convert very old wells with corroded well casings into disposal wells and pump brine down into the depleted reservoirs under high pressure. All it takes is a small leak in the casing somewhere near an aquifer depth.
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Nothing you said refuted my very simple statement that there is no documented case of fracturing harming the water supply. The big issue with coal bed methane is water disposal and I agree, disposal wells can be an issue.
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08/25/10, 03:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb862
That is definitely the operative word here. From what I have seen/heard and from others have posted here, none of their health ailment cases ever makes it to being classified as "documented" because the gas powers that be and those that are profiting from it (state/local governments,etc.) do not allow it to happen. Which is the way things always seem to go when money is involved...
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Throw away your tin foil hat, life will be a lot better.
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08/25/10, 03:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer0101
The industry has been using hydraulic fracturing for decades. There is not one single documented case of causing damage to the water supply. This is all baseless propaganda by people who depend on deluding the gullible with emotion.
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Oh for goodness sakes! Why don't you come and tell that to all the people here in AR whose wells have been destroyed by it? Explain to me exactly how the wells are good and within days or weeks of the fracing starting they aren't anymore? Yeah the gas companies come up with all sorts of BS excuses and reasons and yeah they have the money and influence to win out in these cases and yeah they are jerks who paint the well owners as ignorant or just trying to make a quick buck but facts are FACTS!
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08/25/10, 03:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordy
..................Too say that every gas well drilled is 100% sealed off from polluting fresh water zones several thousand feet Up the bore hole is a bit of a stretch ! Fracing a well by pumping fluid and frac sand at 6,000 too 10,000 PSi and fluid volumes around 50 too 100 barrels per minute means that it is quite possible that the pressurized fluid found a weak point in the cement job surrounding the casing and made it's way UPhole into a fresh water zone ! This , then , establishes a pathway for the gas too follow once a large % of the frac fluid has been recovered , the flowback completed and the gas well brought on line . , fordy  |
Pure speculation. People have repeatedly failed in trying to show this has happened. The reality is that ever bit of this garbage comes from people that abhor even the idea of fossil fuels and who look for any excuse to stand in the road and yell stop.
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08/25/10, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Upstate NY currently
Posts: 594
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08/25/10, 03:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Pixie
At some point reality has to set in... if you're sitting on a postage stamp sized property you probably aren't going to support gas drilling, if you have a larger property (in my case over 250 acres on two parcels) your school and property tax bills are nearly $12K AND the economy has effected your income, well you're going to be more supportive. I own property in two gas areas- Marcellus Shale and Trenton-Black River. I support responsible gas drilling because NY has a multimillion dollar deficit and the money has to come from somewhere, I (and many many like me) simply cannot pay any more in taxes. That's the bottom line.
There are many NY politicians (and those that are campaigning to become one) that support responsible gas drilling. They will get my vote.
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Here is the problem I have with that: you are solving one problem with an even bigger one. Instead of dealing with the fact that New Yorks taxes are too high and getting them reduced you want to destroy your land with gas drilling. Never solve one problem with another one. You have just pushed forward the payment onto your children.
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08/25/10, 03:17 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patt
Oh for goodness sakes! Why don't you come and tell that to all the people here in AR whose wells have been destroyed by it? Explain to me exactly how the wells are good and within days or weeks of the fracing starting they aren't anymore? Yeah the gas companies come up with all sorts of BS excuses and reasons and yeah they have the money and influence to win out in these cases and yeah they are jerks who paint the well owners as ignorant or just trying to make a quick buck but facts are FACTS!
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If there were a shred of truth to these claims the lawyers would be all over it, and they have no hesitation about going after a company of any size as long as the money is there. This is indeed a bunch of people trying to make money off of anecdotes and ignorance. Amazing how many people want to live in the myth.
Last edited by Wanderer0101; 08/25/10 at 03:28 PM.
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08/25/10, 03:20 PM
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****
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central New York
Posts: 8,645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patt
Here is the problem I have with that: you are solving one problem with an even bigger one. Instead of dealing with the fact that New Yorks taxes are too high and getting them reduced you want to destroy your land with gas drilling. Never solve one problem with another one. You have just pushed forward the payment onto your children.
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I suppose I could see your point IF I didn't think that gas drilling can be done in a responsible manner- but I do and it can be.
A blanket statement such as: "Instead of dealing with the fact that New Yorks taxes are too high and getting them reduced" is very easy to say, but much harder to actually do- what magical hole do we pull the cash from?
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People say I can't multi-task. Well, I can tick you off and amuse myself at the same time.
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08/25/10, 03:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronbre
have seen some of the contracts they are trying to get signed around our property and they have clauses where they can come in and litereally take your land for next to nothing and next to no reason..needless to say we didn't sign..none of us in our neighborhood signed
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If your in a gas area... you should learn about your resource. Simply ignoring the fact of what you have wont help.
Start a landowner group and research the best deal for you and your neighbors. One of then will lease, then if it's a crappy lease your quality of life may suffer as well.
Never sign a boiler plate lease. Addendums are the key.
If they drill with in 1000 ft of my property line, they pay to test my well water, my spring, my pond. Before any drilling.
They must post a bond for returning the property to the previous condition prior to work.
They are to discuss any drilling plans and I have input and approval on construction location.
They must follow best management environmental practices.
It also limits them to staying more than 500 ft from any structure.
No road can be built closer than 500 ft from my house.
No pipelines that don't carry my gas.
No drilling/construction during hunting season.
No surface use on property that is less than 10 acres.
A plough Clause.
very limited deductions for conditioning and only if I get more for the conditioned gas than if it wasn't done.
This is but a few of the protections a good lease can give. Mine does. 
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08/25/10, 03:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanb999
If your in a gas area... you should learn about your resource. Simply ignoring the fact of what you have wont help.
Start a landowner group and research the best deal for you and your neighbors. One of then will lease, then if it's a crappy lease your quality of life may suffer as well.
Never sign a boiler plate lease. Addendums are the key.
If they drill with in 1000 ft of my property line, they pay to test my well water, my spring, my pond. Before any drilling.
They must post a bond for returning the property to the previous condition prior to work.
They are to discuss any drilling plans and I have input and approval on construction location.
They must follow best management environmental practices.
It also limits them to staying more than 500 ft from any structure.
No road can be built closer than 500 ft from my house.
No pipelines that don't carry my gas.
No drilling/construction during hunting season.
No surface use on property that is less than 10 acres.
A plough Clause.
very limited deductions for conditioning and only if I get more for the conditioned gas than if it wasn't done.
This is but a few of the protections a good lease can give. Mine does. |
Thank you so much. The most sensible post on the entire thread.
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08/25/10, 03:52 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Pixie
I suppose I could see your point IF I didn't think that gas drilling can be done in a responsible manner- but I do and it can be.
A blanket statement such as: "Instead of dealing with the fact that New Yorks taxes are too high and getting them reduced" is very easy to say, but much harder to actually do- what magical hole do we pull the cash from?
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You stop spending.....
Or get King Brian to give you a pot of gold.
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08/25/10, 03:55 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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08/25/10, 03:56 PM
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****
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central New York
Posts: 8,645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patt
You stop spending.....
Or get King Brian to give you a pot of gold. |
I thought we were having a serious discussion? To me, the condition of the NYS economy is quite serious apparently to you it's a joke. 
__________________
People say I can't multi-task. Well, I can tick you off and amuse myself at the same time.
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08/25/10, 03:59 PM
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I agree with Pancho
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,970
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Can someone please give me a one-sentence description of what the problem is with gas wells being drilled near your home?
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08/25/10, 04:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haven
Can someone please give me a one-sentence description of what the problem is with gas wells being drilled near your home?
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Would you want this right near your house? In the yard where you have your BBQ and picnic table?
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08/25/10, 04:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ouachitas, AR
Posts: 6,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Pixie
I thought we were having a serious discussion? To me, the condition of the NYS economy is quite serious apparently to you it's a joke. |
Just trying to lighten things up a bit. Since you are an Irish Pixie I figured a leprechaun might be an option for you. 
Seriously though you/your state are in the same fix most all of us are in America today: we have a reduced income and so we can't meet our expenses. The best option is always to slash expenses. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is always the worst possible option. May solve the problem today but it can cause a much worse one down the road.
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08/25/10, 04:09 PM
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Miniature Horse lover
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Central WI.
Posts: 21,256
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Nice law suit,,,, a year old,,,,,, and brought to you because the epa has way too much power. LOL on them.
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08/25/10, 04:11 PM
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Miniature Horse lover
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Central WI.
Posts: 21,256
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If I was getting some of the "pie in the sky" and a pretty fair imcome from it, you darn betcha I would't mind it one bit.
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08/25/10, 04:11 PM
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I agree with Pancho
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanb999
Would you want this right near your house? In the yard where you have your BBQ and picnic table?
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No, but my area of ohio is littered with little wells all over the place on private property, and they have all been there for as long as I can remember. Are they polluting water wells or something? Should I be concerned about the pumper located about 6 acres over from me?
Just trying to understand what the controversy is since i didnt see the tv show.
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08/25/10, 04:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haven
No, but my area of ohio is littered with little wells all over the place on private property, and they have all been there for as long as I can remember. Are they polluting water wells or something? Should I be concerned about the pumper located about 6 acres over from me?
Just trying to understand what the controversy is since i didnt see the tv show.
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Mostly the controversy is from people who were stupid enough to buy land without minerals.
Then you have the envirowackos.
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