roundup ready sugarbeets banned

In the interest of accuracy, you say almost half our population is on some kind of feeding assistance, I think you might want to check your math. http://www.fns.usda.gov/fns/key_data/may-2010.pdf

The population of the US is about 307 million people, so if 41 million are on food assistance, that would be about thirteen percent, wouldn't it?

geo

I just heard 1/2 of the US population is on 1. welfare 2. food stamps 3. housing assistance from a rightwing friend of mine.

Evidently that's in one of those "I hate Obama and you should too" emails they like to pass around.

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In the Renville area, during the 1990's migrant workers was starting to decline. It just cost too much. Several herbicides were developed that could somewhat control weeds in beets. The cost of spraying 3-5 times a year was less than the manual labor of hoeing.

Also mechanical thinners were developed. Beets are seeded very thick, then when they get to growing, you need to remove some to come up with the proper spacing for the bulbs to grow.

So, the migrant farm worker was fading away in this part of the state during the 1990's. I do remember the bean walkers and corn detasselers and beet weeders. Was quite the sight to see groups of people wander the fields. Perhasp that is 'normal' thing in the garden areas of California and so, but for a grain farmer, once soybeans no longer had to be weeded by hand, you just don't see people out in the fields. Ever.

Roundup Ready beets were gladly accepted, as it makes weed control in them easy, simple, and cheap. That is why 95% of the beets planted are Roundup Ready.

There won't be enough non-Roundup Ready seed available if they _would_ ban the RUP beets, because it takes 2 years to come up with new seed. It would take 24 months before seed sources could catch up with demand.

The court ruling I mentioned actually turned the issue over to one of the branches of the govt to re-review and come up with an appoval. Not really a total ban, but a bit of paperwork delay for the moment. So _probably_ won't turn into a big deal, but one never knows what the next step, ruling, or paperwork delay is on deals like this.

While we all have opinions on these topics and I enjoy the directions this thread has gone;

For homestaeders who live cheaply & like to be prepared, this is a bit of an issue to keep an eye on. It could create quite a ripple in sugar prices if something comes from it. I don't mean to make any more of it than that.

--->Paul

Thank you for that post! I thought it had to be possible to raise them on a larger scale without all the chemicals unless there was just something highly delicate about them. Even Paul's post above proves that, chemicals are not necessary just cheaper.

Yes... I do indeed find that interesting....

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Better control of weeds will equal better yields.

When Rup soybeans first came out, they actually yielded 2 bu or so less per acre in ideal conditions... But, with the improved weed control, actual yields went up - less weed problems = better crops.

Certainly one can raise anything without weed control, fertilizer, etc.

But what you put into it is what you will get out of it.

Weed control is a big issue. Mechanical cultivating will damage some of the crop, opens up the ground for more weeds to sprout, as well as more wind & water erosion, and requires a fair amount of fuel & time to do.

Hand weeding requires a lot of time & labor which most consumers the world over are unwilling to pay for any more. I remember reading when soybeans first came to Brazil, they hand harvested them! Wow. Talk about labor intensive... But, labor was cheap, people were available. Today such conditions are seen as oppressive to laborers, and the better pay & better work conditions (which I agree with!) pretty much has priced hand labor out of the commodity foods world. It works well for a personal garden or farmers market plot, but not for the commodity markets.

Weed sprays do a good job of getting most every weed for better crops, and are cheaper per acre, less erosion, less fuel used. The downside is the environmental hazards, and of course they need to change, as mother nature will always try to adapt to whatever we do.

It's possible to raise a crop without doing much weed control, but you likely won't get near as much of a crop. Restricting yourself to only mechanical or hand labor options has some limitations and bad side effects just as the chemical solutions do.

Whatever one wishes to accomplish. We have a gray world, not a black & white one.

--->Paul

If you farm on a large scale for a living, you have to do what is "cheaper" if you plan on staying in business.

An acre in the back yard is not the same as 10,000 acres, and you can't apply the same methods

If you think your methods are profitable, then sell your beets in bulk like production farmers do instead of at higher "Farmers Market" prices, and see if you make enough money to do it all again next year

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I actually like making a profit off my farm so why would I use a method that doesn't pull a substantial one?

Anyhoo sugar should be more expensive because it is not a necessity and it is actually bad for you. I pay on average a dollar a pound for organic turbinado sugar. People will survive just fine if they eat less of it.

Careful there Bud, you came awful close to expressing an opinion there........

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Libertarindependent

I highly doubt that you are paying the mortgage on 1000 acres of $3000 an acre farmland either.

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Libertarindependent

My thoughts are not limited to the USDA, but they do have a well supported feeding program which provides massive profits for the corporate food suppliers.

Are you talking about food stamps? No massive profits there. Are you talking about the food surplus comodities? That is where the USDA supports some farm product at about the break even point? No massive profits there either.
Recently, Russia renigged on a dark meat chicken order. I think it was a huge order, like hundreds of tons. The narrow margin that chicken farmers operate on, the sudden oversupply would have put them out of business, USDA bought up that order and the meat is being used in food programs right now.

It is amazing how some folks have this idea that the government and big Ag are evil. You won't change your mind and I won't stop shaking my head.

The world is a complex place. When anti-business groups win suits like this in the courts, you increase regulation, grow government, make farming less profitable, thus unatainable for more people, drive more jobs away from this country and in this case increase the use of chemicals.

But for now, you can "stick it to big business and the government" Dream if you want, but Lassie isn't at the end of the driveway anymore.

I wonder what people get on a per acreage basis when not using any of the so called nasty pesticides, nor use the GM corn, How much Bushels Per Acre do They Get when using none of the above mentioned.

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You're making a profit because you're getting an inflated price
Sell them on the open market by the ton and you'll see why real farmers do what they do

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ok years ago when I grew sugar beets commercially (about 15) we used a lot of mildewcides and pesticides and that won't change with rur beets. the big thing with wanting rur beets is the weed problem and the fact that migrants are getting to expensive. years ago you got fined if you had weeds and so vast armys of migrants were neccessary and you rarely saw a weed in the beet patch. today you don't get fined but it does drag down your tonnage if you have a lot of weeds crowding the beets. do I like rur plants NO do I use rur plants YES, you have to farm a lot of ground to make it today and with rur plants you plant and spray, no plowing, mulching, cultivating which saves us thousands of dollars in fuel and time. by the way sugar beets are a high risk, high reward crop that takes a lot of special eguipment. an interesting side note, last year the sugar factory imported mexican sugar that they could not sell as they had used a dangerious chemical to process it, they reprocesed it and mixed it with new and sold it to the public, makes you wonder about the future and factory farms.

if you guys are serious about wanting to know current costs I can ask the neibor who still grows sugar beets what his margins are.

Well, I don't know about that. I used to have a very set idea about how I felt about big Ag: that it was pure evil. We lived in suburbia and grew our own vegetables in a few raised bed boxes filled with sterile soil (no seed weeds.) Life was wonderful (except when it hailed and killed our entire garden) and we went to our garden boxes, pulled the odd stray weed out, shook our heads and scoffed at big Ag and wondered why they needed to use GMO seed and all those chemicals.

Then we moved out to the country and tried to turn a pasture into a vegetable garden. Suddenly it was a whole 'nother ball game. Our family was having to get up in the wee hours of the morning so we could all go out and weed the garden together. Every few days there would be a whole new crop of weeds to deal with. That made me view the corn and soybean crops all around us in a whole different light. I honestly don't know how they would be able to grow what they grow without RR seeds and chemicals and still make a profit, not short of slave labor anyway.

Now don't get me wrong. I am still anti GMO and I hate the idea of one company having the monopoly on our food supply. I think the foods people are eating is the cause of many of today's health problems. I don't know what the solution would be, other than for each family to grow their own food, but I know that's not going to happen. I still choose to do so for my own family and I believe we're healthier because of it, but I no longer look down my nose at the GMO/RR farmers. There is just no other way they could do what they do and still produce enough to feed the masses without GMO/RR. Today's total disconnect from where our food comes from, and demand for cheap food demands GMO/RR practices. If it gets outlawed here it will just move overseas where there aren't strict laws, the same thing as happens with our factories. So many strict regulations, environmental taxes etc. have sent our factories overseas, they just can't afford to stay in business in the US anymore. All we're doing is sending our pollution and chemicals overseas, the end product we're importing is the same or inferior to what we could have grown/produced here.

Oh and this next growing season? I'm going to use mulch. Lots and lots of mulch.

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Sorry Patt, but I have to disagree with you on that. Sugar is a long time human and animal life staple just like salt is a staple. From the viewpoint of a life-long old style homesteader who puts up all manner of preserved foods, including sugar-cured meats, herbal medicines and spirits, sugar and sugar by-prodiucts (i.e. molasses) is most definitely a necessity. It is a preservative and has been used as a reliable food preservative and medicinal ingredient for humans and their livestock for thousands of years. Even wild animals and insects know the life enhancing value of sugar.

Sugar is only bad for irresponsible or uneducated sugar-junkies who use it in excess without any thought or care for their health.

.

I would much rather have sugar and then cook from scratch using it, and then I know just how much is in my foods.

Rather than buying so many pre-processed foods with sugar/corn syrup in almost everything! Lets not get into food dyes either. Now those are TOTALLY unneeded.

Weeds are a hassle, no way around it. In a way, I wish everyone had to raise some of their own food, then they would understand what it takes, and also might be a bit better in health.

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Did anyone know sugar makes a grand fertilizer? Gives the starved micro organisms in poor soil something to live on.
Also, maybe we should specifically be referring to sucrose, since glucose is a sugar and is one of the main constituent for plant activity.

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