What livestock is "self sufficent"

That is very true. We are talking about the 21st Century here. This is not the 1800's anymore.

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Yes but equally I have seen them approach or at least tolerate very close proximity without fear as they haven't been preyed upon by humans, no treats involved they just don't see humans as a predator to be concerned with.

As humans are just another animal in nature, I really don't see the point of this. Their inborn instincts are tampered with by every other animal in their environment, human or not. They are just adapting to their environment, and would adapt back if humans removed themselves from it.

More to the point of the original poster, domestic animals if left unattended will survive to the same ability as wild animals, but most wild animals die from being preyed upon and diseases, not many that are born live to old age. As other have said more losses that you would likely want to tolerate.

As well animals like sheep and goats require certain environments to survive predation best, the environments they evolved in, and most farmland is not that environment, in their native environment they had methods to escape predators mainly by climbing where canines and felines could not catch them. They are sitting ducks in a pasture environment.

If you could fence out predators well enough, fence the animals in well enough, meaning set up a safe enough environment, you could likely do it and be ok, like the fencing the exotic game ranches use.

Some people I know who live in Okla. turn their cattle out every spring and never see them again until winter. It is possible to pay Weyerhauser a set price for each head and turn them out on their thousands of acres. When winter comes and they get hungry they will return to their home place bringing what ever they have raised.

Domestic animals need to be checked every day.It is animal cruelty not too.You can live on wildlife year round if you preserve some for the off season.I would turn a person in for not tending their livestock.

Oh my...



One does have to wonder how ranchers all over the West manage, year and year, without people like you to ensure the care of their livestock.

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Accomodation of my one to two week trips once a month to southeast Texas to date from 2003 to 2008 was why I kept my home place livestock choices restricted to bait worms and stocked pond fish as both could be left unattended during my time down south.

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So its ok to stock fish in a pond where a fish kill event is pretty much an eventuality. There will b huge predatorial losses and a HUGE percent of offspring will not reach maturity.

Yet another doublestandard fish are animals too jst becausethey arent cute and fuzzy they can be put in the same situation (but with even higher attrition ratios) as the livestock-- but its only inhumane if they are cuddly?


These are being raised as food not pets alot of people here seem to confused o. The difference

There is this: You Take Care of The Animals and They Will Take Care Of You. And as far as those Huge ranches with 1,000's of acres we are Not Talking about that. We Are talking about 3 to 10 acres. That is Small when just turning them out and let them tend for themselves. A HUGE difference. That is not even practicing very good Animal Husbandry at all. And it sure isn't the Homestead way of caring for ones own animals.

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As others have said, yes you can take livestock, any livestock for that matter, and turn them into a fenced in area and then check on them periodically. If there is enough food water and shelter they may make it. Chances are there will be loses and those losses will be high. You need to remember that sheep, goats, cattle, etc are not native to WV. Those animals have been bred for 1000's of years to have certain traits. Animals that put on the most weight are not always the most hardy, is just one example. Parasite issues are another. Good animal husbandry requires daily, at least every couple days, that you check on them.

I have 3 horses, 10 goats, 5 sheep and 3 cattle running on 15 acres. I don't handle them daily, don't even get in the pasture daily, but they do get "eye-balled" daily. I am able to head off small issues before they become big issues.

If you fence in livestock and them leave them to fend for themselves you are dooming them. Sheep being chased by coyotes can't escape when they are run up against a fence. You will have major losses and those losses, if they don't wipe you out completely, will make it a completely and totally unprofitable, be it for meat or money, venture.

You asked for people's advice and opinions and they have given it. I think the same basic principals, be the animals for food or pets, apply. YOU are ultimately responsible for their welfare.

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Why is a fishkill event a certainty?
Have you studied about pond stocking? A nice little windmill keeps the water from stratifying and prevents pond "turnover" Proper stocking rate, automatic feeder, "seeding" the pond with hiding places (drop some brush in it) and proper pond depth all take care of the problems you listed.

Fish and bees are probably your best bet. Asking questions about how to set up and care for them will get you alot further then getting snippy because you haven't gotten an answer of "Sure, throw a dozen goats out there, they'll be fine"

And please, stop ranting about "these aren't pets". No one is telling you they need little coats and booties and to be tucked in every night. People with experience are telling you automatic systems plug up, people steal and fences can turn into death traps, you need to monitor more often then once a week if you want to actually harvest what you produce.

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I've heard of cattle rustling going on though in my neck of the woods. For a while a good dairy cow was going for 1500-2000 bucks. It would be pretty easy for someone to waltz right in and steal your livestock if you weren't around. If I was considering having critters they would be Guineas or Pheasants, just about anything else is either too tempting of a target for thievery or not hardy enough to survive without daily human intervention.

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Huh...I agree with another poster, are you asking trick questions? I've raised plenty of our own meat over the years, these were not pets, why would you think they were? Just because I take care of them on a daily basis?

You've asked, folks that have raised animals for years are saying that you have to check on them more then every few weeks. I have raised goats for years, no you can not fence them in a few acres and then leave them to their own devices for a week or two at a time. To say that a pond of fish and a few acres of fenced in penned up goats are the same thing? Well, it just makes me think you have never raised animals, ever. You need to re-think your plans. I also think you have vastly underestimated the costs involved to raise animals or else you wouldn't be so flippant about the possibility of loosing the entire herd or flock.

I truly don't understand why you wouldn't just hunt more? Why in the world would you even raise your own meat in your situation? Get a freezer and a canner.

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What he said?

starting to think someones trolling?

I would too - if I didn't decide to 'rescue' them first for my own use which if I was down and out with a hungry family I just might do that and with no guilty conscience. So too would a lot of other people who wouldn't even necessarilly be down and out but simply taking advantage of somebody else's ignorance and negligence..... laughing all the way to freezer camp.

The question itself is an exercise in futility and if the OP attempts it he will be doomed to failure and loss of cash outlay. There is no such thing as "livestock" that is "self sufficient". The two terms are contradictory to each other.

Conhntr, I'd suggest you wait until you're ready to live on your property before you invest in "livestock" and then be prepared to protect it properly as any conscientious animal husbander would. If you must have meat animals that you've stocked to hunt and can't live on the property yourself then make an arrangement with a caretaker to live on the property and protect your stock and property for you. There are many people who would leap at an opportunity like that.

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Well, if there's stocked fish in a pond then you could also stock prawns, those are tasty. Crawfish are also tasty and easy enough to catch in a crawdad trap. Snapping turtles might move in to eat your fish, but those are tasty, too. Is there a hunting season on snapping turtles? Frogs are also tasty, add those to your pond.

My uncle used to keep an orchard out in the country and he'd only go tend it on weekends in the summer and check it about once a month or so during winter. Lots of food in an orchard, although it's not meat. He did have a lot of beehives in the orchard to increase the amount of fruit as well as provide honey. Nobody ever messed with the bees since he put the ornery ones there and kept the tame bees at his house in town.

Wild berries such as wild grapes, (thornless) blackberries, alpine strawberries and such are eminently edible although not meat. Nut trees such as pecans and walnuts are pretty much able to take care of themselves once established and they'd provide you with nuts as well as draw in wild pigs.

So far nobody has mentioned pigeons. I'd think a pigeon coop where the pigeons can fly free but have a home to return to would be pretty self keeping. Fill up a water tank for them once a week, maybe put some feed out and let them forage the rest of the time. Squab is pretty tasty. Build a big coop and once they got established, they'd be self multiplying and self tending for the most part.

If you could make a large enough area predator proof you could see if you could get some domestic rabbits to dig in and have a warren there. Otherwise, whatever you can do it encourage wild rabbits and squirrels to move it would provide you with a few meals.

Guinea hens sound like a good idea. Those things are halfway to feral even when they are "tame". They are really tasty, too!

You could try stocking it with semi-feral varieties of chicken but most likely you'll just be feeding the local varmits. If you have a large enough pond, you could put an island in the center and raise ducks there. If it's big enough, maybe even rabbits and chickens, too. How many predators swim across ponds? Probably all of them as soon as they heard baby chicks, though.

If there's feral pigs in the area, just encourage them to move in. Those are tasty, too, although I dunno if you need a hunting season on them. Aren't there some tasty and edible things that are on the "eradication" list? I'd think if they are enough of a problem that they need to be "eradicated" then they'd probably survive well on their own.

The main difference is mortality rate. Domesticated turkeys are well cared for in order to eliminate losses. Wild turkey die at a much higher rate. I dare say that more die than live.

One other very huge difference is the density difference. Why do you think land is not just crawling with wild turkey? Well, land cannot support the number of wild turkey a man caring for his domesticated turkey can care for.

Another problem is illustrated by this: Our indoor cat, Henry, died just over a year ago at the ripe old age of 19. He was a wonderful boy and we miss him very much. We got three six to nine month old barn kittens late last fall. They always have food and water in the barn. Two of them are now missing. Predator losses will be exceedingly high without human care.

I think genetics has little to do with increased survivability of domesticated animals vs wild ones. Domesticated animals survive at a higher rate than wild animals because they have free and easy access to food and water and humans provide some protection against predators.

I don't know of any homesteaders who can afford to replace their stock at a high rate.

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