What livestock is "self sufficent"

Read op it is illegal to take wild turkeys out of season.

Did not think of the "nurture" factor but i would think the majority ofthose behaviors are instinctual especially with a birds.

This.

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Well I eat deer year around , I just freeze it.

The thing is that meat costs ya, one way or another. I killed two deer last winter, but I think I will plan on three this winter.

I'm sorry it just kinda reminds me of the folks who wonder why I charge for vegetables from my garden,

"All you do is plant them"

Livestock is the same, you must raise and nurture them. You get out of anything what you put in to it.

I believe by your title that you are a coon hunter, do your dogs train themselves?

My livestock is are not pets, but they still require attention, and they pay me for it by feeding me.

heck, I even enjoy the work actually.

Many behaviors are instinctual but the very presence of any human intervention in the animal's life compromises those instincts -- especially when that human intervention is related to the animal's (in the case of domestic animals) extremely limited food supply. The effects of nurture can even be seen in wild animals, further supporting the idea that genetics plays a very small role in the equation, have you ever seen a wild duck, swan, goose or squirrel happily approach a human because it has learned that humans mean treats? This happens very often in areas heavily travelled by tourists and causes well-documented and widely-accepted complications for those wild populations. The inborn instincts of those animals, despite their wild genetics, have been tampered with as a result of human presence in their environment.

Domestic animals don't have the street smarts and I've raised a lot of different kinds of animals so I couldn't think of anything until reading Phil Johnson's post. I had some "jail breakers" too that survived being outside of my fence. Guinea fowl!! I raised them to adults then they took off one day out of the blue. I could hear them screeching in the distance. I tried to bring them back home but they were so mean and after trying to catch a mean one, I'm sure they sensed my fear! They also hid in trees, which is why they survived the coyotes.

Canadian Geese are an excellent example of this. Many hunters call them welfare geese, cuz the would rather live in town when given the chance.

You would think wrong.
A domesticated animal is changed from it's wild ancestors. Sometimes in ways we see - double breasted, white feathered turkeys unable to fly - and sometimes in ways we don't see - like loss of the no longer necessary instincts.

You are also not taking into account that Nature factors in an incredibly high loss rate. Out of every 100 cottontails born, about 5 make it to breeding age (4 months) and out of those 5, it is win-the-lottery type odds against any of them seeing a year old.

This loss rate would bankrupt any farmer. And anyone who thought that this loss rate was acceptable should NOT be keeping animals.

Also, you are not taking into account that wild animals have largely unlimited range. While most do not want to leave their territory, they still can if there is enough pressure. If you leave your domestic animals unfenced, what makes them stay?
And if they become a nuisance to your neighbors, maybe you will be lucky enough that the neighbors just shoot them, but more likely you're looking at a lawsuit.

Whatever you want in life, you have to work for it. We have domestic animals for the same reason we have gardens. What we can raise is fatter, yummier and easier to find then what nature provides.
EVERYTHING else thinks so too, deer raid our gardens, and foxes raid our chicken coops, and raccoon are happy to wipe us out of everything.
You can work hard by raising domestic stuff and caring for it.
You can work hard by hunting and foraging enough wild stuff and preserving it for when it's not in season..
Your choice.

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Ok once again I did not read all the Post.I've raised about all Animal and Poultry you can think of.Came to the conclusion if you have one you might as well have as many as your property can handle for the simple fact one will keep you tied down.

I always took care of my own animals for the simple fact they are mine they are my responsibility.

I got rid of everything thinking let the place grow up for Wild Game which has worked out fine.If I was to try raising Animals and Poultry again it would be for $$.

big rockpile

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There are ways to keep domestic stock and not be there daily to care for it. I know of a guy who raises goats. He has them on a pasture with good fence, an electric wire around the top and a pair of LGD's to guard them. He drives down to check on them and refill the dog feeders every other weekend. They are doing well. No losses to predators, and very little time invested on his part.

Pigs can be raised on pasture too. I had 2 that got loose in the goat pasture. They stayed in there with the goats all summer and went to freezer camp last fall. I didn't feed them at all, they foraged for their food, and it worked out much better than I could have imagined. They weren't overly fat, but did make some great pork chops and bacon.

If you have a good water source and plenty of forage, goats, donkey's, and muscovies can probably do just fine. The only way to know for sure is to give it a try.

I think many people confuse stock with pets. Pets need a lot of attention. Stock can function quite well without human attention as long as they have good fences, enough food, and plenty of water.

I've heard, not seen, of a guy down in Texas who put 12' fence around a thousand acres and has lots of stock in there. He put in rabbits, ducks, goats, sheep, etc. and leaves them to free range year round. Any time he wants to fill the freezer he drives down and does some private hunting on his private property. As long as they are domestic farm animals it's perfectly legal for him to harvest them any time he wants. This is a story I've heard, don't know if it's true or not.

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I would suggest that those folks plant a garden of their own and perhaps even take them shopping for seed and transplants. They'll quickly learn that you don't just plant them without expense, and work just to plant them.

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I've set up various configurations that would let a person leave their livestock alone for over a week. Automatic watering systems, automatic feeders, etc.

And without fail, something has always gone wrong with those systems eventually. Plugged water line stopping the water flow, trash in the valve, letting the water run continuously, broken fence, animal stuck in the feeder, fox trapped in the pen, etc.

You can do things to greatly minimize the work involved with the care of livestock. But you cannot achieve a system whereby you can totally ignore the livestock for a week or two. You would still need someone to occassionally at least check on them.

My family had beef cattle in Montana. During the summer we had the cow/calf pairs out on "summer pasture" which was several miles from the main ranch. We checked the cattle at least once a week, rode the fences to make sure they were up, both springs were running and the tanks were in place, no sick or lame cattle.

But they had to be fed daily through the winter, water had to be kept open (ice chopped) every day and in the spring when they calved, they were checked several times not just in the day but also during the night hours.

With 75 to 100 head of cows, I can only remember losing 2 or 3 cows during my teenage years and if he lost more than 2 or 3 calves calving he felt he was doing something wrong.

But even with "range cattle" they weren't something we could check on every 2 weeks all year.

A few people misunderstood me. My question is not what is the least amount of ti
e can i spend on liveetock upkeep. I will have a property remote from work location that i will ONLY live on the weekends for 10years (plus side ill have one of those gravy pensions glenn beck crys about at the end). So as i said i am so early in my research i wanted suggestions on which animals to look into that could possibly handle such a situation.

There are a couple of ways you could do it
First have a large area. You can't keep animals in a small area and expect them to do ok.
Second choose an animal that has nothing that will eat them or is large enough the predators will not bother them.
Third, choose animals that are more free ranging types. These will not be the pretty, large, and tasty animals.
Fourth, expect to loose quite a few animals until you find the right combination.

No type of birds will do the job. Any you choose that may be close to what you want will just leave and find places more to their liking. Or they will make some predator a good meal.
Hogs man be ok but your fence will have to be very good and there will have to plenty of room and food. Pick the closest to feral as you can.
Cattle can do ok if the fences are good and there is plenty of grazing and water.
Sheep and goats would not be a good choice as they are just too tasty.

True and those that have been "left alone" sort of speak may also return back to the "wild" stage of things. And I can't think of anybody that would want to be around a animal that has basically gone back from being domesticated, to more of a wild state. Hard to catch, hard to handle, hard to just take of of period. That is why animals have been domesticated and handled by man. Not made pets out of them but easy to handle and less dangerous to be around.
And even in a wild state they still must have a place that is secure from other critters higher up on the food chain, or its makes an easy meal for those animals.

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Geese can be quite self-sufficient as long as there is grass and a pond/reliable water source. You'd still have to worry about predators but large geese can hold their own against most...

Well, for me, the term "domesticated animals" and "...can make it through the week without human help ... occasionally 2 weeks..." don't go well together. (I do understand the need for animals being "self-sufficient" though; so .... maybe ....)

One thing I would suggest you consider is "Who/what would be helping them protect themselves when humans are not", i.e. like some type of guard dog/donkey/etc. (even some types of fencing); and what will cause them to "want to stay"?

My questions would be "How many acres are you talking about?" and "Are you prepared to accept the losses that will inevitably occur to unattended animals?" Since you are obviously a "hunter", are you considering stocking your land with domesticated animals for the purpose of "legally" hunting them at times when you cannot hunt wild ones? (I ask this because the only items you mentioned providing for them were a watering hole and automatic feeder.)

Downhome had a good suggestion, i.e. fish.

Raccoon breath also had a good suggestion, i.e. guinea fowl. (We have raised guineas and they are well adapt to surviving without human care.) Quail, pheasant, these types survive well too; however, unless you are growing the vegetation they enjoy eating and dwelling in, they will not stay on your place long.

Otter makes a very good point about letting "domesticated" animals free roam without limits. You could very well be confronted with a lawsuit.

Spinner has pretty much stated some of my thoughts.

One "priority" I suggest you consider is how what you want could affect your neighbors. Thus, your first consideration might be an investment in a good parameter fence. Of course, it would not keep any fowl in; but at least it could keep in your runners.

You do "not" sound inhumane to me and I don't hear cruelty in your words. I hear an interest in learning what types of what we call domesticated animals might be more self-efficient than others and what others things should be considered. We live Virginia and have many of the same predators you do; so I do know "any" animal can be targeted, especially the tasty ones.

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free range white tail deer, wild turkey, wild pheasant, wild rabbit, etc..

Free range would not work as they would move to an area they liked more than what was offerend to them. To keep them in the area it would take a lot more work than every week or two.

I really think this is your best bet for your circumstances. Any forage you plant will come in handy later when you move out there permanently and add domesticated livestock. Since you will be there so rarely it will be more attractive to wild animals too.