GM Canola Found in the WILD

texican · #41 08/08/10, 09:30 PM

Experts quoted in the article said it was NBD. No Big Deal. Without the herbicides, it'll have trouble competing out in the wild.

Paquebot · #42 08/08/10, 09:43 PM

It's amusing which way this thread went with so many not having a clue as to the facts. All that had to be done was mention canola and Monsanto to quickly send it off into personal and political thoughts rather than facts. Even more amusing is how this is supposed to be a first and then one anti-Monsanto detractor links to sites which says that it's old hat and been around for as long as RR canola has been available. As one member stated, tinfoil hat may be most helpful in alleviating the pain!

Martin

PrettyPaisley · #43 08/09/10, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneokie

So, why not tell your elected officials you aren't happy with the way the regulatory agencies are handling things? And remind them about all the problems with drug makers and their products.

Because they are not listening? And because the majority are too concerned with American Idol than what is happening in this country to realize what is going on? And the elected officials know it.

I think storming the White House with pitchforks would be more effective. That's where all the former Monsanto's heads are working these days anyhow.

CrashTestRanch · #44 08/09/10, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

Because they are not listening? And because the majority are too concerned with American Idol than what is happening in this country to realize what is going on? And the elected officials know it.

I think storming the White House with pitchforks would be more effective. That's where all the former Monsanto's heads are working these days anyhow.

Too late. Folks voted for their favorite and now everyone is stuck, even those of us who do not worship men. This is why God said not to worship idols, the worship of human beings, anthropolatry, idolatry, veneration, cultism, devotion. It has only served one purpose, those who voted, voted for their own SLAVERY.

Paquebot · #45 08/09/10, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

Because they are not listening? And because the majority are too concerned with American Idol than what is happening in this country to realize what is going on? And the elected officials know it.

I think storming the White House with pitchforks would be more effective. That's where all the former Monsanto's heads are working these days anyhow.

All of which has nothing to do with the thread topic and another example of a very tiny minority here who believe that the story of Chicken Little is no fairy tale. Political views, boogie man fears, or total ignorance of the topic just seems to be becoming the normal for what had been the most-respected forum for only helpful information for homesteading type people.

Had this thread taken off in the line which it should have, plant propagation, everyone might have gained considerable knowledge without any political opinions or demonstrating the condition of their gall bladders. Using the same failed rhetoric time and time again simply proves that some people can be fooled time and again and again and again.

The longer these tirades go on, the more educated the members become so you are not drawing a big force to the anti-progress camp. What we've seen are a few members who are apparently quite handy with a shovel since they just keep digging the same hole deeper and deeper! There may be one or two newcomers to 2010 Internet but most found this place on their own and more than likely not "sheeple" who may depend upon a grandchild to log in. Perhaps they are the targets?

There are some whose aim on this forum appears to be to humiliate anyone who does not agree with the 99.9999% of the population who are happy with where agriculture is going with feeding our masses. Last figure I saw was about 25 US urban people surviving on the efforts of 1 farmer. A tiny minority here seem bent on eliminating those 25 who depend upon and strongly support that 1 farmer. If anyone here is in that group who wishes to deny me my right to existence, you'd best have a darned good reason to justify it. You ain't got the power of Adolph Hitler and you ain't ever going to get it no matter how much you may dream of it!

This particular HT forum is for those who have been involved in true homesteading, came from a homesteading background, long to become a homesteader, or want to understand their homesteading roots either in this past century or 500 years ago. (My paternal family line DOES meet all of the above in case one is wondering about my credentials.) Nothing really personal but if you are not among those mentioned few, then perhaps your calling is somewhere else. But at the same time, your steadfast devotion to a losing cause can be used to assure the world's population through generations to come. My ancestors did a super job in their part to get us to where we are now. Our descendants will be expected to do the same for the future. Do your plans include them?

Martin

paintboy · #46 08/09/10, 06:16 AM

But you knew as rest of us did that as soon as monsanto was mentioned this thread would go down hill fast. Hence the reason for my first post. Might as well push it over the edge early since that's where it's going to end up anyway.

Heritagefarm · #47 08/09/10, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paquebot

There are some whose aim on this forum appears to be to humiliate anyone who does not agree with the 99.9999% of the population who are happy with where agriculture is going with feeding our masses. Last figure I saw was about 25 US urban people surviving on the efforts of 1 farmer. A tiny minority here seem bent on eliminating those 25 who depend upon and strongly support that 1 farmer. If anyone here is in that group who wishes to deny me my right to existence, you'd best have a darned good reason to justify it. You ain't got the power of Adolph Hitler and you ain't ever going to get it no matter how much you may dream of it!

Martin

And yet the farmers who produce enough food for 110 people are going bankrupt.

PrettyPaisley · #48 08/09/10, 09:17 AM

Paquebot, I do not understand how being anti-Monsanto, not supporting GM crops, and wanting to inform people about the dangers of GM food is anti-homesteading or can be perceived as an attempt to humilate.

Granted, I've bought into the idea that GM is not good for my family nor this generation of developing children. Not everyone agrees. But that surely doesn't mean I am trying to humiliate anyone.

A PP asked me what anyone on this board has done in regards to contacting elected officials to stop Monsanto if they feel so anti-GM. That is all my response was aimed at. A reply to that poster (which was quoted). It might off topic from the OP but I was simply answering a question.

And I have your seeds growing in my garden. I doubt anyone paying attention is questioning your creditials.

However, I do believe that constanting trying to out fool Mother Nature is not a good idea. And I don't mean only propogating the seeds of the fattest, most juicy apple or breeding the most tasty cow over the sickly one. I mean trying to make all crops bigger and badder and more bug disease resistant. There is always going to be a bigger, badder bug and a bigger badder disease. I think MRSA (which I consider mild compared to what is to come) defends that argument with the overuse of antibiotics.

I think we are smart enough to feed ourselves well without the help of Monsanto. But I personally believe that if you (general you-not personal you) refuse to take a large responsibility in your family's nutrition, you get what you deserve. I don't care about the masses eating the GM food. (Well I do care about the innocent children of pop culture addicts who are not paying attention but I cannot raise them all no matter how much I wish I could.) My concern is for the people like those of us who want to be left alone to feed our famlies as we see fit and without the medling of Monsanto.

Patt · #49 08/09/10, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintboy

But you knew as rest of us did that as soon as monsanto was mentioned this thread would go down hill fast. Hence the reason for my first post. Might as well push it over the edge early since that's where it's going to end up anyway.

This is exactly what I meant, I never, ever said people with dissenting opinions should shut up, I said please don't ruin the thread with snarkiness for the ones of us who want to discuss it. Those who are for it or against it!

Pony · #50 08/09/10, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneokie

Exactly, so why aren't you railing to your elected representatives to put a stop to all of it?

Well, many of us do contact our reps on a pretty consistent basis. We express our concerns.

Some reps listen. Others poo-poo our concern as so much baloney.

I'm certainly not going to stick my neck out and post, though, when no matter what information is presented, those who don't like it will simply call those who are concerned "Chicken Little."

And one or two plants in the woods indicate that there could very well be other plants elsewhere. But some folks don't want to hear that because it's easier to shoot the messenger.

Patt · #51 08/09/10, 10:58 AM

This article expands on the original information:
http://www.newswise.com/articles/fir...-united-states

A couple of things that really stand out to me:

The 2 strains that crossed in the wild are ones resistant to Round-up and Liberty Link (Bayer crop science). Which means they crossed in the wild (since no sells that combo) and they have established a wild population.

Quote:

Further, some of the plants contained resistance to both herbicides – a combination of transgenic traits that had not been developed in canola crops.

“That’s not commercially available. That has to be happening in the wild,” Schafer said. “That leads us to believe that these wild populations have become established populations. Technically, these plants are not supposed to be able to compete in the wild.”

Current farming practices may quickly make the problem worse. Each year tens of thousands of acres of canola go un-harvested in the field. As a consequence, an enormous reservoir of seed is created, which can then spread into wild populations.

“Once this happens, it would be difficult to get rid of these weeds using current herbicides,” Sagers said.

Not only do we have to worry about these canola plants mixing with canola in the fields we also have to worry about them mixing with weeds and creating super weeds.

Quote:

Globally, canola can interbreed with 40 different weed species, and 25 percent of those weeds can be found in the United States. These findings raise questions about the regulation of herbicide resistant weeds and about how these plants might compete with others in the wild.

Lazy J · #52 08/09/10, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

And yet the farmers who produce enough food for 110 people are going bankrupt.

Really? I haven't heard about an increase in commercial ag bankruptcies. Can you provide the reference for this assertion?

Heritagefarm · #53 08/09/10, 11:13 AM

False assertion. Sorry. What gets me is that they barely come out ahead. One corn farmer was trucking because his corn farm was so deeply in debt, it couldn't even pay for itself. It's different in the CAFO area, though.

piglady · #54 08/09/10, 11:41 AM

I really don’t care what you do, as long as it doesn’t affect me. The question is not is GMO seed safe, the question is do I have the right to reject it for whatever reason (no matter how silly you may think my reason). When your seed pollinates with my seed, then you have invaded my space without my permission. When I can no longer purchase non-GMO seed and cannot protect my fields from GMO pollen then it is a big deal, to me at least.

I have seen a backlash in my own community. Parents are buying organic food for their children so they are not contaminated with pesticides. Forget the science or politics of that decision, it is a fact that many parents pay extra for food they think is safer. There is now a strong market for meat, fruit and vegetables grown locally using non-GMO seeds and without hormones, pesticides, etc. This will never replace commercial farming but it is an option and demand is increasing, at least with my customers. Politicians or large corporations will not stop because a few people write and email. Change will come one family at a time voting with their pocketbook to buy food they perceive is better and safer.

Paquebot · #55 08/09/10, 12:56 PM

The thing that immediately stood out in that report was the claim that discovery of canola growing anywhere but in a farm field was a first when that was exactly what Percy Schmeiser based his defense on 10 years ago. Oats, wheat, corn, and any other seed transported from one place to another in bulk is going to be subject to loss unless in an airtight sealed container. Since roads are the routes travelled by that transport, beside the roads and ditches are where such seeds have a chance to grow. So someone finds the same thing that was already common in Canada 10 years ago and it's a major discovery of a wild population? Sounds like a lot of people just aren't doing their research very well.

Martin

geo in mi · #56 08/09/10, 02:58 PM

Folks,
Please read carefully the article shown:http://www.dowagro.com/ca/news/western/20-Feb-01.htm

Note the date...... (2001) Hybridization of the original open pollinated rapeseed started in the 1970's in order to get the toxic elements out of it so the newly named "canola" oil could be used for food cooking. The fact that hybrid canola crosses "in the wild"( as the OP's original atrticle called it) is well-documented, cussed, discussed, and dealt with already, and as was mentioned in the OP article, is no big deal. It is known as outcrossing--something which farmers and scientists have dealt with since all kinds of plant hybridizing first began. So.......

Yer' spittin' in the wind when you rant and berate Monsanto, or any company which uses science to promote new ways to grow food. Especially if all your opinion is derived from "hate and berate the evil corporation" blogs. Instead of using this forum to do your thing about GMO, why don't you try to go positive for a change and promote GYO? We homesteaders don't have to participate in GMO or any other kind of food production if we don't want to. There's GYO, organic methodology, free range, grass fed, and USDA ORGANIC to mention a few. Jeez, let's apply our energies to the wooden hoe handle instead of the plastic keyboard for awhile, huh? Frost is comin' soon....

Just a friendly thought....
geo

tinknal · #57 08/09/10, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patt

The 2 strains that crossed in the wild are ones resistant to Round-up and Liberty Link (Bayer crop science). Which means they crossed in the wild (since no sells that combo) and they have established a wild population.

That doesn't prove the cross occurred in the "wild" (Although I don't consider road side ditches as the wild).

It could have occurred because of adjoining farm fields. One farmer plants one variety, his neighbor the other, and viola, there is your cross. Seed falls of the truck and mother nature takes her course.

plowjockey · #58 08/09/10, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenista

I could go on and on.
Yes, Monsantos practices are absolutely wrong and destructive, no doubt about it.
But they have been allowed to grow and conquer....
That is the true root of the problems.

No need to.

The American farmer should be as much to blame, for Monsanto's sucess in taking over and destroying the world.

If they did not purchase (and therfore reap profit for themselves) Monsanto products, the the company would have likely gone out of business a long time ago.

sammyd · #59 08/09/10, 05:51 PM

yeah, heaven forbid that a farmer uses all the tools available to him to make his work easier and maybe even profitable.

arabian knight · #60 08/09/10, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyd

yeah, heaven forbid that a farmer uses all the tools available to him to make his work easier and maybe even profitable.

Really want America to starve, just stop the American Farmer from farming practices that have been through many different tests that prove they are ok to use.
How else could the American Farmer not only feed Americans but much of the world. We export many crops and also lots of meat to other countries as well.
After all this is the 21st Century with now over 300 Million population in the US. Not just a million or so like back in the 1900's.
One must look outside of the box and beyond ones own backyard pastures.