Try to Picture Heaven - Homesteading Partnership Possibilities
 

Okay, so I put a post about a barter and got shot down for. Scam. Spring Valley had a parallel post that got wrapped around the axle.

Howz about a retread thread fro your point of view?

Spring Valley wants to expand their profit-making possibilities. AND keep their land for their kiddies. Old Navoti here wants to find a buyer LIKE Spring Valley since her own son is totally disinterested in land, homesteading life and countryside interests. I have posted before about looking for a surrogate heir per Joel Salatin.

So if you were I, and you were looking for a Spring Valley couple who would buy your land and develop it as a productive organic (non-toxic) homestead, how would you advertise? What would you offer? How would you say it?

My "picture" is that I would want to stay here as long as possible (legally a "life estate") but I've sloooowed down. Just hardly can't do nuthin no more and no, not a scam, there are things I'd really like to have here, goats, pigs, more poultry. Why shouldn't I swap land ownership with somebody who could clear pasture, build animal housing, set up effective fencing so I could have the things I want but practicality denies me now?

Spring Valley. Would share profits. Me, too. My difference would be transferring land ownership. And no, I don't want to be suckered like the Nearings were by a developer who made many promises and broke all of them!

So my question is, if you were in my shoes, or Spring Valleys, what would you craft as an offer? What would you look fo??? How would you put safeguards in place and what would they be???? I don't want to scam anybody and I don't want to BE scammed!! And I do need the $$$ to pay my taxes asap!!!!!

Thanks for HELPFUL advice!!!

I can't help you with any ideas about your immediate need, but for a long term situation, maybe work out a caretaker position. They would need housing and would take care of your land in the way you see fit. Then as time goes on, you could see if they were the right folks to be there and go to the next step.
Just my thoughts (if I understand correctly)

If I was you I would start talking to the people in your area(that you trust hopefully) and let them know what you want to do. Finding someone to move a long distance would in my mind be difficult. I said once the people that would just up and leave to come to your place would be just a likely to repeat it, by leaving yours, and your stuck again. I do think anything like you are talking would/should require a lawyer, for both of your protection. Good luck with you endavor, and your taxes.

You didn't say how old your are and/or what your present capabilites are, nor why you need money for taxes. But if you love the place and live there by yourself, and mostly just want to continue living there, perhaps there is another of your age/capabilities that could share your costs and your house. You could continue to look for younger people to buy the place with a stipulaton that you (and maybe the other person) could live there for the rest of their lives.

What about renting the property...enough to cover the taxes. Then after a trial period of time turn it into a land contract for a 'gift' price...like a $1 a month then would terminate at the time of your passing and full ownership passes to the new couple. With a sufficient enough time period passing before writing up the land contract you would know them enough to know what they are going to do the property and how they are going to treat you.

I'm not sure, but in my area lawyers do free legal consultation at the courthouse, one day a week. That might be a good place to get an idea how to cover your posterior.

Another practice around here is to offer buying the property while giving the original owner lifetime rights to the house.

I would consider advertising, here in the property forum, local newspapers, and maybe craigslist.

Given the property tax situation I would offer a bargain lease agreement. Cash up front to cover the taxes, but for a period of months that makes the rent a cheap steal. I'ld consider which buildings and existing flocks/gardens I would give them access to and perhaps have to haggle some over the details.

The other thing I would do is connect with the nearest Organic CSA. I would put a term in the lease that all activity must coincide with CSA Organic practices/standards unless otherwise specifically permitted by the owner.

Another thing I would do is start making a list of what I can accept and what I will not accept. You have to remember this is a totally different individual coming in and starting to do things their way. It would be easier for them to plan if they know in advance what won't be ok.

The other thing I would look into is the newcomers well being. Don't want to wave your rights away but at the same time you want to make sure, god forbid something weird and bad happens to you they aren't left high and dry. Around here if a person goes into a state assisted nursing home the state and back claim any property sold within the 6 years preceeding going into a nursing home.

Could you pm me the details about your place? I know an organic CSA just in Delaware, 3 acre operation looking for a better place. Could pitch it to them.

I would look nearby for folks who have a small place and have proven their worth by the way they tend it. You might find someone who wants a bigger place or to be "out" further or whatever your place offers that they do not have. If this opportunity came upon my family, even though we love our 5 acres (and it shows in our place), we would love to have more acreage and be "further out". If I lived closer I would be all over Spring Valley's offer.

One possibility is to look into a "life estate", whereby you give ownership in return for deeded privileges of living there, along with stipulated conditions binding until you pass... run that by a lawyer....
geo

I would consult a real estate lawyer to get a legal opinion on the best way to craft a deal that would protect you. Laws can differ from place to place, so having someone familiar with, and has experience with, similar situations could save a lot of headache and heartache.

Good question! We are really fortunate that we have a son who will be taking our place eventually. I am interested to see how Spring Valley's search goes too.

I would probably place an ad in Countryside magazine and try to spell out the specifics: what I have, what I need in a partner, what I will give them in exchange, etc.

I hope you can find someone!

I'd be leery about signing the land over to somebody while you're still alive. Even if you have a life estate, they could make your life so miserable you'd virtually be forced off your land! Saw this happen to my grandma, and the guilty party was her own son.

What about a reverse mortgage? That will give you some needed cash to pay the taxes. Use anything left over to hire the help you need. If you find a good 'un, you could always invite them to live onsite and pursue their own homesteading endeavors.

I love my farm, and it will be difficult to see it worked differently when the time comes for me to move on.

The problem with your preposal is you wish to control how the land is cared for after you can't care for it any more.

Look at it from the person buying the land - the trust - from you. How should he/she be treated?

Just to change it up a little, let's turn the tables. I'll sell my farm, but stay on it. You are the buyer.

I say it needs to be plowed, because it is heavy soil. I want the weeds controlled so their are none - that pretty much means you have to spray herbicides. I like crops rotated, so you will be doing 100 acres or more of corn and soybeans. You can't live here because I will be, and county doesn't like 2 houses per homestead.

Jeez, I sure want a lot of controls on you, don't I?

I suppose you & I wouldn't be a good match. I'm sure there is a good match for me out there; and you will have a good match out there for yourself.

But write up what you want - what you expect of the other people, what your terms are.

Then forget all you know about your place, forget about all your dreams for the place. Think of yourself as a young person with dreams of your own, hopes and wishes to make your mark on the world, carve out your nitche.

Then with a cleared mind, read what your terms for the new people are.

Does it seem restrictive?

If it is, then you will either attract people with less to offer; or it will get _real_ low offers to compensate for the restrictions.

It's kinda like any family farming situation. The parents are ready to slow down; the kids are ready to fly. It is _very_ hard to marry those 2 situations - each side has different goals.

The dairy farm sounded like it had something to offer - a job really, with on the job training & perhaps taking over portions of the business.

Your offer seems like it has less to offer anyone - a small homestead with you remaining there, kinda crowded & not any type of big moneymaker..... So, you'll be decreasing your income, or offers.

Nothing wrong with that. Just something to consider. :)

How to find the person? It's sorta like dating & marraige. Can take some time, and a bit of a ganble, to make that happy meld of personalities & effort.

I wish you well on the search. I hope my comments aren't too negative - I only mean them as ideas, not as a cold dash of water. Dating isn't easy sometimes. :)

--->Paul

Some really good ideas here and I thank you all. I also had a couple of pm's which somehow I might have accidentally erased when I tried to reply. One was from a couple with two children who live far away and want to rent to own. They attempted this before with somebody who took advantage of them and then tossed them off. Making them homeless! I sure would not want to harm anybody, much less a family with children!
Sometimes a barter can be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I don't want that for anybody, starting with me!
I think the advice to find somebody local is what might be best. So if you were local what would be an attractive offer for you? I don't want to "rule from the grave," nor have my son rip the land out from under your feet when I croak, I don't want anybody with no resources or whose freeloading on section 8 or welfare and I ESPECIALLY DONT WANT ANY DRUNKS thanks to a horrible experience I had with a drunk I sold part of my land to who worked for the post office and seemed fine when he was sober. But uh oh after only one beer! I'm thinking contacting local csa's is a really good idea, if they had some interns with knowledge and experience. What about co-housing people? Um I don't have a house to offer but if their needs were frugal, they could create a "Tiny House," right??

In Texas you can sell or give or donate the development rights in what is called a conservation easement. You sell the rights to development to a third party, state parks and wildlife, some environmental group like sierra club, whatever...

This limits what the land can be used for by whoever gets the land after you by sale, inheritance whatever... It cannot by law be broken up or developed in any way that the conservation easement does not allow.

In my state at least it also has property tax benefits, in that if the land can only be used for agricultural purposes due to a conservation easement, it's almost an automatic permanent agriculture property tax exemption.

Go see a real estate lawyer.

I think what your doing is great, and I don`t think you have to many resrictions on the deal. We know of several ladies that have sold their farms and put right in the contract that they have life use of the house. One of these ladies has ended up living alot longer than the guy that bought it though she would live. But in the end the new owners got the whole use of the farm after the original owner has died. The one lady had no livestock and that deal worked out real good for all envolved. The other one the older lady had a flock of sheep that she wanted to keep along with a couple small pastures. The lady ended up living along time after the sale and she had kept her sheep all that time. The new owner got more annoyed every year that she had pastures he could be using , but she had the use as long as she was alive. She ended up going to the nursing home and the sheep went to the sale barn, and I think that they tore her house down as fast as she moved out. I sure hope you can find a nice co-new owner.>Thanks Marc

Whatever you want to include in the agreement make sure that you have a competent Real Estate Attorney from a prominent firm draw up the contract. This is not an area where you should try to pinch pennies. DIY is great for lots of stuff but NOT this. It is the only way to be sure that you don't get screwed on the deal.

Initial consultations are usually no charge. Call to see.

Txrider, I actually have taken a course on conservation easements TWICE which had, among the presenters, an excellent lawyer and a CPA. I spent a week's pay for an hour's follow-up consultation with the lawyer. Plus I have had meetings with a couple of folks whose organizations hold easements. What they don't tell you are 1) you need at least 100 acres for anyone to be "interested" in holding the easement and 2) it costs at least $10,000 to set up an easement. There's at least a $3,000 bill for the lawyer to. Set up a trust. Then, surprise, you need another different lawyer for the easement. Then the appraiser who sets the value gets $6,000-$7,000. The monetary reward you get is tax discounts which I don't need so then a broker gets in on the act to buy them at a discount and resell them.
Fine, so I find a rich buyer of my land who can do the easements, pay all the costs and reap the benefits. But that's not so likely to be a homesteader who lives frugally, is it?
My desire with the post was to get creative ideas of what could work as far as 1) getting income to pay the land taxes, 2) creating and developing a profit-making homestead and 3) selling/transferring my land to some couple with children who will love and cherish it as much as I do! After the advice I received so far on here, I'm thinking I definitely want a married couple who have been interns on a csa, have agricultural or forestry degrees, knowledge of permaculture and perhaps were wwoofers who had a wide experience working on different organic farms. I need competent people with good skills and it would be nice to have local people with local jobs and ties to the community and steady paychecks zeroing in!
After I find this heavenly or heaven-sent couple and after we thrash out an agreement that looks like it will work, THEN we can get a lawyer. I even have one in mind. Several, in fact. (And a larger number of lawyers to NOT go to). I don't know any homesteading lawyers, though. How nice if one reading this would volunteer some suggestions!
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions so far. I'm glad Spring Valley made the good posts which have been very helpful to me in particular.

I'm skeptical that it can be done. Sure, you can likely find someone, and haggle out a contract, but at some point it's going to go south. You don't want to give up ownership of the land too soon, as it's your security blanket. The other folks want ownership of the land as fast as possible, because it gives them security. And I don't think there's a way to make both of you happy if the deal goes bad in say, five years. They walk away with nothing, or do they "vest" in a part of your land over time? If it's nothing until the end, or do they get a few acres for their years of service? What happens if you want a goat fence put up, and they don't want to spend the money or take the time to do it? And what if you physically decline with age and need to go into a nursing home? Uncle Sam is going to make you sell your property (leaving your helpers with zilch) before Medicaid pays anything. Or what happens if you declare bankruptcy, or Uncle Sam puts a lien on your property because you owe him a bunch of taxes? What would this leave for the helpers? What happens if they get divorced and they do have some ownership in the property and it has to be sold to raise cash that can be split between husband and wife , or they declare bankruptcy? There are just too many what if's if you ask me. Now there are certainly folks out there that enter into a kind of rent to own contract to buy land, where they make payments for years but never get any ownership until the very end, but these contracts are fraught with problems, and I think hightly unfair to the buyers.

Witterbound, thanks for all the negatives. Sheesh! Howz about some POSITIVES here??? For every point you raised why something would NOT work, there must be a reason why it WOULD work!
Surely ALL 3,000-plus posters here didn't get their land by finding it advertised by a real estate agent and buying it with a conventional mortgage or by inheriting it? Or by buying it on the courthouse steps as result of seizure and sale because someone couldn't pay taxes or their meth lab blew up!

Navitofarm by now you're heard a lot of the negatives. You obviously have a brain given some of the things you've accomplished. You also know based on experience that there are folks that will take advantage of you in a heartbeat. Having said that you might want to consider contacting people through the Northeast Organic Farming Association. Years ago I subscribed to their newsletter. I don't know if it still exists. IIRC there were usually ads from folks looking for situations.

The folks here before us bought the original parcel in two phases. The original owner kept the house and the land it sat on. The folks we bought from purchased the rest of the thirty or so acres. There was a much smaller house on that property. When the original owner died, the house went to the folks that had purchased the property around it. As far as I know, there weren't any problems. Could there have been? Yep!

You might want to consider something similar possibly using a land contract with enough down to at least pay your taxes. Just remember there's a lot of smooth talkers out there.

Though it is pessimistic in some aspects Witterbound does make some good points. Both sides are going to be a little nervous about getting screwed, so some steps should be made to make both sides feel comfortable.

I'm a lawyer and I'm often paid to think about the possible negatives and find a way to deal with them. Folks that put these kind of deals together usually think more about the positives, because, of course, who would want to go into "partnership" with someone else focusing on the negatives.

Witterbound, a lawyer? Oh, how delicious! I apologize for being snotty about the negatives! Actually, of course, you raised some really good points. I feel like Ferris Buehler (spelling?) In that darling movie where he asked the computer, "Will you play a game with me?"
Here's my thinking, so please play the scenario as to "highest and best" in my interests AND this buyer's -- if you would be so kind.
My thinking is A) I love my land and want to be on it as long as I can. Living here alone, I almost croaked last winter when we had two heavy snows back to back and my power went out. My animals almost died, too, since they were located at a distance from the house and no way I could get to them.
I take that as handwriting on the wall. I don't want to die a recluse's life and have my land just auctioned off to a developer.
On the other hand, I sold a three-acre parcel to be surveyed and off-conveyed to a man I recorded a deed to. Instead of paying me per our agreement, he paid me $15,000 down and then started doing work, he said, in barter for the balance. And he was a drunk. This went to court. My son sent me $8,000 for a lawyer, who burned up all the 8 and quit, so I had to stumble into circuit court unrepresented. The judge rescinded the deed and awarded the erstwhile buyer a judgment against me for $28,000. So if I find a homestead-type buyer, before he gets a clear deed, that $28,000 at 6% interest since 2005 has to be dealt with somehow. I am thinking rent with option to buy because I don't want to make another deal with what seems to be a good soul but who is an afflicted person.
Your concerns about my being incapacitated or the irs, county, social services or some other entity snatching the land are of course well-founded. So maybe the person ought to buy the land outright? But the kind of person who'd have enough money to would logically not be a homesteader, right?
My tentative solution would be a deed of gift of fractional interest, on the theory that if the land is seized by some government entity, don't my co-owners have the right to bid on the whole before it goes to the courthouse steps? Of course, they'd better have the $ available to pay.
I know I don't want to do a reverse mortgage since the bank or whatever would become owner of my land and would sell it to a developer.
As to a divorce of the couple, I am worried about that, too, given statistics. Also if I get a couple, in any arguments it would be two against me! Agmantoo talked in another thread about giving property to a church, which has some appeal.
One concern I have is that the value of land where I am has escalated drastically in recent years and so have the taxes. I wouldn't want to sell or give this land to some good folks and have them lose it. That would be awful for them and certainly thwart me!
Anyway, I am thinking I might find another buyer for a small part of the land to recoup what I lost with the aborted sale and get my taxes current, and a buyer for the larger residual tract who could rent to own. If I were bundled off to a nursing home, could those regular payments go toward my expenses? What do prudent old folks do in their declining years??? That is practical???

DON'T TAKE THIS AS LEGAL ADVICE, AS IT IS NOT, AND THE LAWS IN THE STATE WHERE I LIVE ARE LIKELY DIFFERENT FROM THE STATE WHERE YOU LIVE, AND YOU NEED TO FIND A LAWYER IN THE STATE WHERE YOU LIVE TO BLESS YOUR DEAL, NOT ME. I am not familiar with a deed of gift of a fractional interest. I assume what they do is, say, gift or sell say a 10% interest in your property to someone else. I really have never seen this, so i don't know what such a transaction looks like or what it creates afterward. If it creates a tenancy in common, it means the person with the 10% interest could go to court to partition your property to get his 10% and sell it. If you wanted to sell your 90%, you'd have to do the same thing. It ties your hands, once you give the 10% to the other person there is nothing that says they have to live there or help you. It will create co-ownership headaches as you'll legally be joined at the hip so to speak. There, in my mind, is no WAR GAMES perfect solution to this tic tac toe puzzle. Any solution you come up I can likely find a lot of holes. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, if you believe in it and you think the benefits outweigh the risks. Transactions happen every day where the lawyers find problems after potential problems, because those putting the deals together want them done for other reasons, and those people (CEOs & clients) pay the lawyers and tell them what to do, not vice versa.

Well, Witterbound, you are in Arkansas and I'm in Virginia so I guess we can have fun with scenarios and possibilities here. Yes, if I deed my buyers a fractional interest they sure would have the right to file a partion suit and they would be a mess because if they had 10% of 23 acres, that would be an actual 2.3 acres. What if they say, "my 2.3 acres is right here!" And the right here was my access road or where my biggest oak trees are or right next to the lake? Sure, there could be problems. But if they pay me actual money, in all fairness, they should have something tangible in return.
Generally in a barter, if it is a good one, each side should believe he/she got the best of the deal. Lawyers mostly don't create barters because they live in a purely monetary economy. I suppose some could charge a flat rate for a particular task but most charge by the hour. $250 an hour is the going rate around here which is what I make for a whole week's pay!
Lawyers are always looking for loopholes, setting baby rapers and mammy jammers free. They make big bucks doing that.
Bartering is an entrepreneur's game. I gave up making money years ago because I wanted freedom. The Carla Emery's of the world (what I'm looking for) try to live on a cash basis. They do not HAVE money. But they can DO things I want and need that I don't have money to pay for. So if I sell them some land that I own free and clear (uh except for the deliquent taxes and the judgment) why shouldn't I set any price I choose with work as "other valuable consideration"?
Now if they are useless like me and cannot perform the work, that aint gonna work. Then they gotta cough up full price or hire somebody to do the work.
Anyway, this thread's purpose was to find somebody whose idea of heaven matches mine, who has similar dreams to mine and can, as another chap on here says, "actualize" them! Oh yeah and pay them awful taxes asap!

well i wish u all goodluck in finding someone hope find them local... me and husband discussed it feel we should back out because u are not suited for a family, so wish u all the luck in the world I hope get pay 8,000 in taxes before u loose your land... be blessed Cynthia ann Lindsey It was not met to be, it not in god;s plan...

Oh Cynthiaann, whatever do u mean, "because u are not suited for a family"?????
A section 8 or welfare family, or free-loaders, for sure not!!!! I am looking for a family like Spring Valley's, which although I haven't met them, means a self-sufficient family with intelligence, imagination, competence, flexibility and experience oh and some healthy savings, so what's with the "u are not suited"? And what do u think God's plan is? And if u could create Heaven, what wld it be for u?? That is the question I put forth.
I did have someone local come look. I especially want horses because there are miles of trails here. She has two horses one of which is costing her huge amounts of money because she is boarding it in Florida. She is boarding the other one locally. My land didn't suit her because I don't have an indoor riding ring with lights. He funny thing is, she lives in a big house in a subdivision somebody carved out of the woods and built for her, turn key. She could actually walk or ride a bike to get to her horses if she kept them here. And she sure couldn't do that with the horse she keeps in Florida, indoor riding ring or not!

I used to work for a large law firm when I lived in a big city. I now live in the country, and practice law in a very small town. I charge $75 an hour. I enjoy it because I'm helping floks in my community with their legal problems. I don't create those problems, they do.

Put out a craigslist ad. Doesn't cost anything. You might take some digital photos of the place. Maybe scan the plat book and provide a copy on line. Might want to come up with a blog site with more details. ASCS office would have soil surveys that you might provide online. Just ask for offers and prepared to take the best one. To gain the most interest I don't believe I would establish acceptable uses. Let the renter figure it out for himself. After all it is a commercial enterprise. You want to make money and so does he.

I live in Virginia too. I do not own 23 acres; just 6 acres. My little family was in a similar situation to you in that mother was not able to do the work neccessary to create our homestead. I did it for her and my grown son came to help. We, of course, loved mother and all we did was what she wanted done, even though it caused hardships on me. (Example, she wanted nut trees in the back pasture where we had nice orchard grass growing. Of course, I could not let our small goat herd graze back there because they would kill the nut trees.) Still, for the most part, I developed things she wanted in a way that worked for me. Now she is dead and my son is my only heir. He is doing the same for me as I did for mother, i.e. creating what I want where I want it. At the same time he is also creating what he wants where I would prefer it not be; but that only seems fair to me.

What I am trying to say is that, when you are unable to do what you want when you want to do it, i.e. care for animals/pastures/gardens/fruit orchards/etc., you must depend on others. Those others have needs/desires too. To invite someone in to tend those 23 acres in a way you want without creating legal compensation (rights/lands/animals/etc) is rather self-centered and could easily cause a build up of irritation that could cause you problems later on.

I am wondering why you don't create for yourself something smaller that you can enjoy, making a deal with some family to tend it all for you (paying "all" taxes) and, thereby, earning rights to part of your 23 acres as they go. Seems to me a lawyer could work something up that would be fair for all parties involved. (It is a simple fact of nature that, as we grow and become more and more disabled, we need to be able to let go of more and more of our expectations.) Doing it this way, I see no reason why you should not be able to stay in your home up until you actually die. There are community services that can come to your home to serve some of your needs and you could even write it into the contract those "buying" your land in the above-way mentioned would be doing your shopping and taking you to doctors. At least, if I had that much acreage and if I didn't have my son whose ideas about living here were complimentary to mine, that is what I would do.

I feel bad for prying, but I must ask, how many years is $8000 in back taxes?

This sounds like quite a challenge, to find someone both fully capable and in a situation to handle such.

Shame there is the $28k lean on the property, if you found the right person they could theoreticly pay the owed taxes and inherit the land by that method, thankfully the lean gives another factor that prevents just anyone from getting it.

What kind of setup do you have for out of town guests? They might need to be put up for a few nights, or even months if this really takes off. You'll really need them to come out and see the property.

Sure are a lot of things I hadn't thought about in your suggestions here, so I do thank you all. Certainly for a loner like me ANY person I deal with is a kind of shock as are their ideas which are so different from mine, especially as I don't watch tv or go to movies so I suppose I have created my own little planet which is very separate from "reality." Getting old is like getting pregnant the first time, learn as you go! I suppose I will list the property with some real estate agent who will yank me around, set a sales price, and toss the listing onto a computer. Maybe a wildthang will come along and I can have secret conversations behind the realtor's back and freak out my son, too! First though, I'm looking for a spring valley or a wild thang my dogs and I will like!
Prismseed, I don't have housing here for visitors other than an Airstream, but you raise an interesting point. I suppose I should narrow my search for a partner-buyer to someone who already lives near me or at least a comfortable driving distance away. At the moment I am leaning towards simply surveying off a lot with my home on it since it has electricity and running water etc. A fair price would give me plenty of money to pay off my taxes, the nefariously wily postal worker and build me my octagonal house, too! Now I'm thinking slipstone! And I've got all those trees down to do cordwood walls with. (Uh oh, I almost forgot I'm getting old and feeble!)
Well, pretty soon we won't be in the throes of all this heat and I know some of the ideas here will work out just fine for me except the one about I'm not suited for a family. Boy, that really burns!

One option we haven't thrown out is a husband? That real estate agent just might bring Mr. Right to you doorstep ........ :)

Well, I'm up for grabs! Is that an offer, Witterbound? It sure would be nice to affilliate myself with a good lawyer who could steamroller some of these local lawyers like eggs all over the courtroom floor! Legal services for land? A barter dowry exchange! Now yer talking!

Being a Real Estate Agent, myself, I can actually relate to and agree there are bad Agents out there. I am not one of them. I have a question relating to "Life Estate." If you are granted a Life Estate, while there is a party who own Legal Title to your property, how is it you think or others think the State can take your land when you go to a Nursing Home. A Life Estate is simply owning a right to live on the property, not owning the actual property itself. Most of my family, farmers, died at home, and never went to nursing homes. If necessary, they received in-home care. That can be set up in advance, too. My grandfather died of esophagus cancer, with Grandma at his side. The hospital bed was in their spare bedroom. When Grandma died, it was in her own bed, also. If assistance is needed, due to not having family to help, it is less expensive for the State to provide in-home care. Should you not opt for this and end up in a nursing home OR choose to move to another type of facility, a Life Estate is an asset that can be sold, but it ends when your life does. I was a Loan Officer for 5 years and it was very rare I would even bring up reverse mortgages. There is a situation that may warrant one, but very few.

I represented both the Seller, the Estate, and the Buyer, a single lady, in such a transaction. The mother had died, with a reverse mortgage in place. The Estate had to sell the property, like Navotifarm probably understands, to pay off the mortgage. The mtg co didn't want the house, they wanted the pay-off. I was in a unique situation wherein there was little negotiation. This was cut and dried. The Estate holders just wanted this reverse mortgage paid off, the expenses to sell covered, and some debts paid off. My Buyer was still getting this house for under market value, but she wanted the home to fix it up (it needed work, too), paid every single expense, and there was negotiation to cover the primary repairs included in the purchase. The funds were held in Escrow and disbursed for the repairs as they were made.

A Life Estate would seem to be a viable option. No matter what you do, I hope it works out for you and the chosen party.

No internet romance for me. My wife just wouldn't understand.

Lorichristie, that was very helpful information. Very encouraging, too, about the life estate. I know there is some kind of "Aging in Place" where there are home visits, meals and so on but it was just part of the morass in the back of my mind till I read your post when I kind of flashed on it.
Maybe it's an urban myth that if I sell my property to somebody and have to go in a nursing home within X years, the govmint can seize the property, reverse the sale, and sell it again? I am thinking that I don't KNOW when I'm going to get old or what that will be like, but lately I've been conscious that I need to think about transition of my land's legal ownership. Perhaps a life estate is a kind of working insurance ss could NOT take the land away from the buyers if I'm here, NOT in a nursing home.
Oh witterbound, here I thought you were making me an offer! Ratz I will just have to tough it out as a single female whilst reverting to my original plan of looking for a surrogate heir darn. Foiled again! You can give me some legal hints, though, right, while shielded safely in the arms of your wife in Arkansas! How'm I gonna get the judge to rescind an order he signed when my traiterous lawyer submitted a bogus settlement he tricked me into signing by saying it was a draft??? Judges here are elected by members of the bar so the scales of justice were weighted in this event. Should I file a memo and leave it ticking in the records? Or complain to the bar assn? Or both? Ha, tell me all! My surrogate heir needs to know!

When we purchased the farm from my parents, my Father sold us the farm at a much reduced price from what he could have sold it to anybody else. We were going to do a contract with my parents, then changed our minds and went with s mortgage company instead. We where told that if my parents had gone into a nursing home within three years of the purchase, they could reasses our purchace agreement and could have had the farm reapraised. And we may have had to pay up , if they felt it was worth more. And the way land prices have gone through the roof around here in the last ten years, our net worth has gone up alot, Hope this helps, >Thanks Marc

Marc, that helps a LOT. I talked with a realtor that I've known for years. He said that I could sell my land to a buyer at a reduced rate in return for the life estate and, like your parents, hold the mortgage myself. That would give me a regular monthly income plus the interest (also at a reduced rate) the mortgage company would have had, so I could recover some of the money I'd lost by selling my land at a reduced rate. He said that if I die before the mortgage is paid off, the balance due would go to my son or whoever I designate. He said this would be written up as an "easy mortgage" although I forgot how he defined an "easy mortgage."
At the time we were only considering my staying here, not being shuffled off into a nursing home. I don't think that option could work for me. I cannot imagine living anywhere without my dogs. Or being penned up somewhere. I am only 77. If I sold my land this september, I hope I could live here past the three-year limit you mention. Anyway, what you and lorichristie said has been very helpful as to a contingency I had not given much thought to. I wonder if anybody else on here has experience with life estates? I've seen them in deed descriptions and know of one that was bought out in a quiet title deal since it was considered a cloud on the title even though the old lady wasn't living on the property.

The Medicare lookback is now 5 years. In Arkansas (it's gotta be somewhat similar in VA), there is a table they use to determine the value of a life estate. It, of course, is a percentage of the value of the land, which decreases as your age increases. Since you'd be the seller, you would look at the table to see if you sold the land for below fmv, and if you did, that would be kinda like a gift, that would be used to disqualify you for Medicaid until the deal was 5 years old. But you'd also be disqualifed for Medicaid because the monthly mortgage payments you'd be getting from the buyer. plus your other income, would likely put you over the $2,000 monthly income limit (or the similar limit in VA). That income would have to be used to pay for the nursing home before Medicaid would pay. I think nursing homes and Medicaid should be the least of your worries. If you've got to go into the nursing home, you'll probably have to spend your money to pay for it. It will reduce how much you can pass along to your son, but that's just the way it is. Structure the deal in a way that makes sence for you so you can stay at home as long as you can, and hopefully sell it to the right kind of folks. Then if you have to later go into a nursing home, just let the chips fall were they may. Those planning to get rid of everything to qualify for Medicaid ususally have loving families that can and will step in to pay for things if Mom or Dad have previously given them everything so they can qualify for Medicaid. It's a risky way for some to go, and the reason folks do it is so they can pass on as much as possible to their heirs. In your case, that's not a major motivation, so don't let that affect your planning.