I eat whatever I want.

Just not whenever I want.

I have found over the years that my appetite is directly proportional to how much I eat. Go on vacation and go wild and when I get back to normal routine I find my self ravenous. Have a bowl of cereal for dinner a couple nights in a row and suddenly I'm not so hungry all the time.

I think genetics have a lot to do with it too... big parents = big offspring.

I can eat anything and as much as I want, and can't get past a certain weight limit. My father's genes. One sister is the same way. Father's genes. Other sister can scrimp on groceries and make Inuit whaler's follow her around. Mother's genes.

Not saying the study isn't accurate and true... but I'd like to have these studies done in sealed rooms. Group A gets to eat as much as they want, with chemicals. Group B gets to eat as much as they want, without chemicals. Group C gets to eat minimal calories, with chemicals and Group D gets minimal without chemicals. If the weight gain is the same, for minimal chemical as for unlimited chemical, I might be convinced. If the unlimited group gains proportionately more than the minimal, I'd have to think differently.

In short, can a person, with minimal calories, break the laws of physics... Matter cannot be either created or destroyed? Gain weight, when there's not enough calories, chemical laden or otherwise, to feed the weight gain...

I know when I've been on reduced rations, I had to cut new notches on my belt, to keep my pants on.

Quoting from a Larry King show certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Taubes is a research journalist. He spends years going over scientific studies done by others. I know I am wasting my time because I am quoting scientific studies and you are quoting from Larry King.

Sadly I think some of the poeple in here would say the same thing to an obese person's face as they type here.

What we crave is based on simple biology. Our bodies crave the three things that are rarities in nature: sugar, fat and salt. It makes sense if you think about because for most of man's existence all of those were hard to find and needed to be eaten in quantity when they were found or saved and hoarded like salt. Food manufacturers know that and so they lace everything with those three items. Ever wonder why convenience food is always high in sodium and fat and there is corn syrup in everything? There you go.

The thread was shut down, and I didn't get to comment on this...but I just have to

The misinformation and ignorance on HT about nutrition and making it work is to be healthy...just sad. I'm commenting on the behavior.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...30&postcount=6

Here's a person who "eats less than 1000 cals per day" and "lives on steamed squash and green beans". She is also nursing a baby/toddler(I will assume she's been eating this way for some time). She's says when she remembers to eat some fat she loses weight(then why not eat some fat???). Eating under 1000 cals a day is starving your body, no wonder her body holds onto the fat--the brain and certain functions NEED fat to work, if no fat is coming in, the body is smart enough to hoard(gawd, there's that word again:D) the fat to keep functioning.

THe main concern is for the baby though--the first few years is the most growth of the BRAIN mass. The brain is a lot of fat. It runs on fat(and sugars...). Babies NEED fat to develop properly. If the mother is starving herself, not eating the fat, evolutionarily her body will work to preserve HER, not put fat in her milk for the baby. Her baby is getting skim milk instead of the whole milk it needs.

If anyone wants some sci-fi "proof", google what happens to babies in third world countries when poor mothers dilute the free formula to make it stretch.

Maybe you can explain to me then why it is so many medications come with the warning that they cause weight gain? You know I am all for personal responsibility but this is just over the top and completely ignoring reality.

We all know that certain things like chemicals and medications cause the body to store calories as fat that it should not. So in order for people to get what they need and have it available to use the simple calories in and calories burned formula just doesn't work. It is a very simple system and WE BROKE IT!

I found back an article I recently read about this topic. It was published by some obscure unreliable source, the Mayo clinic. Let me quote...

"Only in rare cases do you get excessive weight gain from a medical problem that slows metabolism..."

Here is the link to the full article http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolism/WT00006

Not health care. My degree is in the life sciences, ie chemistry, physics, biology and psychology. I realize the truth sometimes hurts, but anyone who ignores their weight problems are actually the ones hurting themselves and those who love them.

How come there weren't any fat people in the concentration camps? Where did the magical people who stayed fat on a bite of food a day go?

Pete

Tell me about it!

A few weeks ago we pulled into a fast food place (trying to remember which one), and ordered 2 small Dr. Pepppers.

The lady handed us these BIG cups. My mother thought it was a mistake. She told the girl, I ordered SMALL. The girl said, That IS the small.

How big is the LARGE size?????? :shocked:

That is an opinion piece - not a scientific piece. There is not a single reference in the article. And it is wrong.

Ummm.... :confused:
You'll have to forgive me, but I have no idea how any of that figures in to the topic at hand. :shrug:

We KNOW environmental toxins cause cancer. We know this for a fact. It's irrefutable. Second hand smoke, asbestos, radon, formaldehyde, etc, etc.
There is no conspiracy there.

If these things are known carcinogens, it's not even remotely a stretch to say that they have a non-deadly effect on the chemical function of our bodies as well.

Seriously?

I also quoted from the Mayo Clinic earlier might want to go back and look at it.

I think there is probably a link between chemicals and obesity. I think pre-packaged foods and eating out are a big part of the problem. Pre-packaged and restauraunt food constain a lot of sodium and fat as well as chemical perservatives. Obviously lower calories and exercise are still the key but I think eating real wholesome food not full of junk can be more satisfying and help control weight. Some chemicals can deplete nutrients making people crave more food (for example soda can leach calcium from your body).

I hope that's not a serious question?

In case it is, I would think it's because they got fed about 500 calories a day, if that, and had to do hard labor for 16 or 18 hours a day.

Results of this abuse can be seen in this US Army film from the end of WWII, filmed over a period of a couple of months as Allies rescued concentration camp victims (WARNING! Do not watch this if you are emotional and cry easily. DO NOT watch it when children are in the room).

http://www.archive.org/details/nazi_concentration_camps

After watching it, remember to be grateful for our country, our military, and our abundant food supply.

why should you avoid it if you cry easy?

and children were in the concentration camps, they were certainly not "spared".

not to mention someone here on HT recommended that we can be healthy on 500 calories a day, what gives?

Ya really, I would like to see a person live a healthy, productive, life, on 500 calories a day. geesh.

If I didn't give a warning, people would be all over my butt.

Why are you always down on everything I post?

Life is not kittens and butterflies, if we don't face these images "we" will forget and it will happen again(it already is, genocide goes on). If someone complains THEY need to put on their big boy panties(hello? it's CONCENTRATION CAMP PHOTOS). I'm not going to bite the head off of my four year olds pet rabbit to kill it and grill it for supper to teach them the cycle of life. But I don't/didn't shield their eyes from gutted roadkill either, or my cat chewing up a cute lil chipmunk.

And I was speaking to OTHER PEOPLE posting how they eat under 1000(I think someone mentioned 500 in this thread) and have problems. The extra variable in the concentration camp was being WORKED. "What gives?" means this whack of eating under 1000 cals a day is just that--whack.

I DON"T always bag on EVERYTHING you post, go check(It probably pencils out to .0000003% of your total posts). Why do you exaggerate?

Probably because you appear to be chasing after her recently and smacking down her posts. I have noticed it too.

LOTS of people have noticed it.

Um, people, we're having a debate, not an argument...

And I suppose I can say LOTS of people have noticed your sensitivity to a differing opinion. (and then I'm sure people will pipe up with I'm being sensitive to having my disagreement being disagreed with...so I saved y'all the time)

I was expressing an opinion about people shielding themselves from history. Then I *think* I was agreeing with you about your comment about concentration camp/500 cals a day(that was my intent).

The coupon deal? I simply disagreed(in my experience) and was dismissed as ignorant and lazy, then I DID some legwork to FIND coupons I could use, using the links LC provided(see, I'm not just sitting here disagreeing because it is fun, I'm actually trying to see her side and make it work for MY SITUATION, like she says I can "do" if I just put a little "effort" into it). And then we can get REALLY technical and note that the coupon "bagging" STARTED with LC and SN bagging on non-coupon users in the other thread(though I see LC has removed some of her posts). The coupon thread was a CONVERSATION on one subject--if you want to tally up those posts as multiple disagreements/bagging that is just silly(IMO course, YMMV)

I really wish the under 1000 cal people would get back here and make a comment regarding their "advice"--sheesh, if people said there were cutting the calories like that to their ANIMALS, you guys would be all over them for animal abuse!

Guess I can add Lady Cat to the sacred list of Never Disagree With.

I agree, let's stick to the topic of chemicals and fat, not keepign track of who is disagreeing with who for how long and why and what is the ulterior motive and waaaaaaaah!:gaptooth:

I never said that!! That's why I edited one of my posts. My ignorant and lazy comment was not directed at anyone on this forum! It was directed at people I know IRL who are too ignorant and lazy to try to better themselves by utilizing frugal methods.

E.G., people who let a light bill go unpaid so they can buy beer instead are ignorant and lazy!

People who make fun of me for using coupons when they can't put food on their own table, and turn up their nose at me because I offer to teach them (because they are too good for coupons!), are ignorant and lazy!

I edited my post because you and others thought I was directing that comment at people on this forum. Even though I had EXPLAINED what I was referring to.

The problem is, you are trying to take it too fast!

You have to have a certain mindset, it takes MONTHS to really get it figured out, you have to be extraordinarily organized, and you have to have a extraordinarily calculating, compartmentalized mind.

Not everyone can do this. It has nothing at all to do with intelligence. It has to do with different people having different talents. Some people can do one thing, some another.

If you really truly want to learn (and if you do, I will back you and teach you all the way), start here: We Use Coupons. That's the best newbie couponing forum there is.

Start out by reading the newbie and tutorial boards, and the boards for the stores that are available in your area.

READ! READ! READ! Ask a million questions!

For at least the first week, probably longer, you will be hopelessly confused.

But after a month or 6 weeks, it will start sinking in.

After only a few months, it will start getting easier and easier, your grocery bill will be plunging, and you'll wonder what took you so long to discover this new world of super couponing.

After a year, it will be so second-nature that it won't be hardly any effort at all.

You see, it's not just a simple matter of using a coupon on a product. It's all in how you stack your deals. And to make things more complicated, it will work differently at each store, depending on how their rewards/savings program works (and btw, Walmart does NOT have a rewards or savings program. Super couponers do very little shopping there because the deals are better elsewhere).

I don't mind a bit when people disagree with me! I LOVE a good debate. I love debates so well, I can even switch sides when the situation calls for it, and be convincing either way.

Boy would I have made a good lawyer. :D

Wow! Some dude named MoonRiver Rich knows more then the Mayo clinic. You should start the MoonRiver Clinic. You could be rich!

It was and is a serious question. What you are saying is that if fat people eat 500 calories a day and do hard exercise for 16 to 18 hours a day they get real skinny real fast. We come back to the basic rule. Fat people eat to much and work (physically) too little.

Pete

The large size is the Bladder Buster! :grin: (haven't been fast fooding in while...) use to think 44 oz was 'big', then ran into a 72? ounce Mongo Bladder Buster!!!

Wowzers! I couldn't hold 72oz in one sitting! :eek:

so now I have to work at it for months before I see some savings???? (I really didnt' want to bring THAT debate into this thread....the reality remains for me, that coupons dont' exist for what I buy, plain and simple, I've SAID that I have done coupons in the past and then changed what I was buying...and lost weight I might add...)

Anyways, the lil slap fest on the original comment on the dislcalimer etc is a perfect example of why this whole obesity/skinnyfat "problem" never goes anywhere--people are "emotional and cry too much" and to protect the poor inner hurt child they refuse to look the problem square in the eye and see it for what it really is, THEY ARE UNHEALTHY. You can't fix it if you don't know what the problem is. Plain and simple.

There is plenty of good science out there on how to acheive health--but it takes work. Hard work. You have to train your body to burn fat, it doesn't just "happen" when you cut calories. Sedentary people burn glycogen for activity--it's an easy energy to burn as well as their cardio efficiency is bad and that's where the carb carvings come from--their bods want to burn the glycogen. They never burn extra to start accessing fat for energy. Since they cut the calories then they go into starvation and once the glycogen is gone, since their bods are inefficient at burning fat(and fat guards against starvation of the brain and vital organs) the bod then goes to burning MUSCLE for activity--IF they don't eat the next few meals, or eat a few carrot sticks to keep under that magic 1000 mark.

If y'all really want to know if your obese get your body fat percentage checked (at the doctor, those scales are garbage!). Like I said before, my BMI is "obese" at 30...and my body fat is 21%(20% is "athlete") ie I have muscles and strong bones and I am a size 10(um last time I checked 10 wasn't considered obese...maybe plus size for the catwalk, ha). My goal is 18-19%, NOT some Obama approved BMI. Healthy BF% for women is 16-26%, go above OR below and you have PROBLEMS. Even the body builder women who go to 7-8% for the show aren't there for more than a few weeks--because of the problems(which strangely enough have to do with starvation...)

And yes, I had two kids, and got fat for my troubles. I'm finally clicking it all together to get rid of it, not to mention I finally have let go of the dumb guilt of "wasting time" taking care of myself instead of doting on my kids, so dont' give me that "you're skinny so you dont' know what it's like stuff".:D

Here is something new that maybe coming to a vending machine near you.
A Sandwich in a CAN..
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-in-a-can.html

You are so contradictory. You said you wanted to use coupons and now you say you don't. :shrug:

I can't imagine what coupons you want that don't exist.

My wish list here gives a rough idea of the kind of foods I buy (for ME I mean, not for food assistance): http://www.weusecoupons.com/upload/w...-wishlist.html

No hamburger helper or toaster streudals there.

highjack

I'm not authorised to see the page. Go ahead and cut n paste in the COUPON thread.

Oh, I didn't know you had to be logged in.

Let me educate a little. Energy in and energy out are dependent. The body will burn more energy when more energy is taken in and burn less energy when less is taken in. That's why people with healthy metabolisms tend to have very little variation in their weight. Their hunger tells them to eat more or less to maintain their body weight.

Being fat is not an energy in - energy out problem for most. It is a fat storage/fat burning problem. Insulin tells the body to store energy as fat and leptin tells the body to burn fat. When something causes interference with insulin and/or leptin, the body's ability to store and burn fat is inhibited.

Obesity is primarily caused by consumption of carbohydrates, especially white foods such as potatoes, white bread, white rice, and sugar. That is because they cause an increase in blood glucose which then begins problems with insulin. Most junk food is very high in carbohydrates such as hydrogenated corn syrup as well as harmful trans-fats.

I didn't claim to know than the Mayo Clinic. What I said was the article did not have a single reference and does not appeared to be based on scientific study. The article appears to be based on a dietary hypothesis that has been proven wrong.

If you were interested in knowledge rather than being right, you would take the time to view the ' presentation at UC Berkley. He is a rather dry speaker, but he goes to great lengths to explain why much of what we think we know about diet and weight control is wrong and he has the scientific research to back it up.

When the food runs out, everyone gets skinny. There have been plenty of famines in history to prove that point.

People can blather on and on about fat storage and fat burning, but the reality is that when a human body has no other source of energy, it WILL burn it's own fat. The mayo clinic suggests that metabolism variation accounts for at most 10% difference in the at rest burning rate.

Stop making excuses, and start eating less. If you are eating way to much, then guess what, you get to eat way less. Keep eating less until you start loosing weight. When your weight loss stalls, eat less again, until you are at a size you are happy with. That's all there is to it.

Pete

Interesting that you chose not to comment on the specific points I made about the study you referenced.

My quote was from the Wikipedia article on Taubes. It is the first or second link when you google Gary Taubes. Not sure about this Larry King thing you talk about.


I did spend an hour or so viewing a number of those youtube videos you mentioned. I find it fascinating that Taubes claims that not only do you not need to exercise but that exercise can make you gain weight.

The only thing I ever heard him references as to a reason for that is to quote the old cliche, "I sure worked up and appetite". Even when confronted by the exercise/fitness trainer and the person she helped lose 100 lbs he had nothing with which to respond other then "have you ever heard the saying, work up an appetite".


Color me not impressed. Sure some of the stuff he preaches makes sense. Of course you can't eat a diet of simple carbs and be fit and healthy.

He exposes himself for what he really is when he panders to the lazy fat person when he tells them they not only don't have to exercise but shouldn't exercise to lose weight. Anything to sell books and see the name up in lights.

A ton of money has been made of the diet industry. Looks like he is getting his share!

I"m hungry. All this typing has worked me up an appetite!

LOL

And the most telling thing about those blessed with the weight gain genes v/s the anemic thinnies. The thinnies will die first if there is any stop in food supply. HMMM lean long pork! It's what's for dinner. :lookout:

Your body is designed to binge and starve. Today we have a fairly stable food system (in the western world) so some genetically fortunate people do pack on fat. 300 years ago the thinnies (those with the much praised fast metabolism) would have died at about Mid-May following an off harvest year. Their bodies are calorie wasters.... :icecream:

Correct. BUT
We have not had a 'famine' in America in, well, probably in 'our' lifetime.
And I agree, if you take in x calories, and only burn 1/2 of what you take in, the other 1/2 is 'extra'.
BUT:
Factor in the change in our way of living.
Everyone (not as in every single one, but the majority) is on some sort of pill. Allergy meds, ADD meds, Anti-depressants, YOU NAME IT.
Then couple that with the fact our food is SO JAM packed full of artificial this and chemicals that.......that it's hardly even food.

I am looking for someone who can explain to me in 'chemistry' terms.......Can these 'chemicals' and 'toxins' attach themselves to our God given natural design, and cause problems??

For example: I saw a pain doc a few years ago when I pinched a nerve pulling fence posts. He wanted to attach a device to me, that "turned off" my pain receptors......
You heard me.
A machine that told my brain to turn off the pain receptors.
Of course I ran out of the office screaming like my hair was on fire. Are you kidding me??????
But
There are so many drugs out there that "trick the brain" into thinking all kinds of stuff.....

Maybe that same brain trickin' stuff is in our food supply???

Your above method worked for me.
When I delivered my 3rd child, I was 65 lbs heavier than the day I got pregnant. I continued to eat a healthy diet, because I was nursing.
When I weaned her at close to the one year mark....I still had about 35 extra lbs.
When she was weaned totally.......it was on.
I stopped eating.
Got into the bad habit of not eating breakfast. Just a couple cups of Joe in the am.
Ate lunch......small portion.
Ate dinner.......little bit bigger portion.
WORKED MY TAIL OFF.
Got a job bartending. The bar was 25 feet long. I ran back and forth for hours. When I was home I was chasing after 3 kids under the age of 4. We never stopped moving.....
The last 35lbs were gone in 2 1/2 months.

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

I did not eat fast food. I could not afford it.
I cooked from scratch.
I did not eat 'cheap' food (boxed meals, frozen meals, canned meals)
I ate (and still do eat) a lot of veggies and fruits.
I do not take any drugs. Tylenol when my head is banging like a drum.....but that's it. No BC pills, no allergy meds, no anti-depressants, no sleeping pills, hbp meds......nothing.

Yes, people need to take in less calories than they burn in a day.
Yes, people need to get up and move.
Yes, the TYPE of calories you take in matters....
Yes, there is personal responsibility that needs to be addressed

But I want to know from a chemist....there has to be one out there.....how does all the artificial sweetners, colors, and flavors, chemicals and toxins interact w our brains AND is that why so many are grossly overweight?

Not really true at all. if it's purely a calorie in v/s out. Pure cane sugar would have the same effects in weight gain calculations as veggies or a slab of beef.

I have a cousin that during his poor time when he was in collage his main food source was skittles. Dollar for calorie they were cheaper than anything else. He was never over weight.

You won't get an answer from a chemist because there isn't one. A relationship between chemicals and obesity, has not been proven, only speculated. The media and those overweight, latch onto this "news", like it is fact.

For the most part, you really explained how it really works. You were way overweight at child birth (which is completely natural), but still overweight after weaning. You had a very active job and you refused to eat fast food. You took the rest of the weight off. What a concept! ;)

Why does weight loss have to be rocket science, or blaming the evil chemicals?

It's just not possible to learn how to supercoupon or extreme coupon in 10 minutes. It's a process. Kind of like a technical school course. You can't read a paragraph today and then go to the store tomorrow and get a $200 bill of groceries for $10 or $25 or $50.

PLUS it takes a few weeks to get the coupons that you want to start rolling in.

I think the problems starts when you look at the calories per "meal". Just one 12 oz can of soda has like 39 grams of carbs, all from sugars. Your cousin was eating for the best bang for the buck so he likely wasn't binging on skittles, just eating them for dinner.

Compare the calories from simple carbs in a 12oz sirloin, mess of green beans, baked potato and a glass of water to an equal sized portion of skittles and a pepsi.

It still comes down to calories in vs calories out. If you don't eat more calories from simple carbs then you burn they won't be converted to fat for storage and won't mess with your insulin as much.

I used to live on sugar too. When age started catching up to me cutting back on sugar, especially heavily processed sugars, was one of the single biggest factors in my not having to buy a new belt. I still eat plenty of complex carbs. Cutting back on portions (overall calories), sugars and increased activity has been the ticket for me.


Taubes makes some good points, most of which have been made before by others. He just takes it to far and in some cases WAY to far.