You may be selling, but I'm not buying. If your kid is fat, it's because you are feeding him more then he is burning. It's simple physics, and simple chemistry. The sooner you take ownership of the problem, the sooner your son will have a fighting chance at a healthy weight for the rest of his life.

The first step to recovery is to stop blaming everyone and everything else.

Pete

No, It's not complicated at all. Fat people like to make it sound like it is, but it is very simple. Fat people eat to much and exercise (burn) to little. That makes them fat. Exercising to little makes them lazy. Combined with being fat makes them fat AND lazy.

Pete

I simply do NOT understand how anyone can ignore the dangers of the SAD. The chemicals, the plastics, the way animals are raised, the fastfood-how can this be okay to feed growing children? It makes me sick to my stomache to consider what we are doing to an entire generation of children.

cathleenc-I am so sorry about your son. I think you are *spot on* with your conclusion. I can't imagine how hard it must have been to know that what kept your son alive could have so drastically changed his life.

If you have a chemical that increases the caloric density of food, I really want to know about it. I'm going to apply the same chemical to crude oil, and by doing so am going to increase the energy present in oil. I'll be rich and promise to share the wealth with you.

Eating more calories they you use is simple. It involves opening the mouth, stuffing vast quantities of crap in, chewing and swallowing. It really is that simple.

Pete

And yet, it isn't. :rolleyes:
Otherwise, there'd be no reason two people could eat the same diet, burn the same calories and yet have different body compositions. To say otherwise, ignores not only environmental effects, but genetic ones as well.

That's the point. It's crap. It's pretend food laden with chemicals, plastics and pesticides. And it's screwing with our bodies on a fundemental level. It is changing our DNA.

We are consuming too much. And exercising too little. But even with all the exercise in the WORLD-eating this type of frankenfood is still making you unhealthy, whether it manifests as fat or not.

You better be posting a reliable source for such a statement as that.

I will. As soon as I find it again. I just sent it to my sister who heats 3-4 meals a day in plastic in the microwave. I *will* find it.

Meanwhile-read about plastic changing the DNA of mice.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/553215/?sc=dwhn

And GMO changing the DNA of mice-making their mouth a *great* place for hair to grow.

http://www.responsibletechnology.org...ctID=4888#hair

Beginning to sound like something out of the National Inquirer instead of a Homesteading topic!

Martin

Wow.
What a heartbreaking topic, and the threads....yikes.

May I ask?

Does anyone else see 'obesity' at its root, an addiction??

I know there are so many medical conditions, and medicines that make things so much worse.
IE: Ambilify causes MASSIVE weight gain. Even when you are eating a perfectly healthy diet and exercising.
I know Lupas, and the handful of pills that must be taken daily, also packs on the pounds, even when eating right and exercising.
I know that a busted thyroid, and diabetes and the meds that go with treating those, causes the bodies weight to go crazy......

All medical conditions aside.
For those who do not struggle with medical conditions, or medicines....

Do you think obesitity is an addiction?

There is another thread about 'chemicals', and I really think that one is right on.....
I wish I knew chemistry, because I am convinced that all the artificial this, and chemical laden that..........when we injest it, those chemicals latch on to parts of our bodies and reek havoc.

(God Created and designed our food for us. It was good and perfect.
Man came along and thought "Huh, I am smarter than God, let me show you" and started tampering with our food (GMO / Chemicals / Pesticides) and now, we are reaping the consequences to our choices......IMHO)

So, is there any proof, or studies that show, this could be more of an addiction? A 'learned' behavior passed from generation to generation? A 'self-preservation' mechanism?

Again, this has been a cruel subject....I often wonder if everyone who has posted would sit in a room with everyone else, and stand on a stage and say what they have said.....

To a large degree, our weight is determined by hormones. Common ingredients in deordordants, soap, and even toothpastes have been shown to trigger hormonal response. Check out triclosan and triclocarban.

Several posters are making statements based on disproven information. Take exercise for one. Exercise is good for you but doesn't do much, if anything, for weight loss. Thirty minutes on an exercise bike burns maybe 200 calories. So if I do 30 minutes a day, 7 days a week that works out to 1400 calories. About 1/3rd of a pound.

A book by Gary Taubes, Good Calories. Bad Calories, examines weight loss studies over the last approximately 50 years, and concludes that most conventional wisdom is wrong because it is based on misinterpretation of scientific studies. There is a good video on youtube of a talk he gave before a group of doctors at Dartmouth. I would suggest taking a look at some of his videos.

Another current theory is that inflammation causes obesity and obesity causes inflammation. Now that is a difficult situation to get out of. For some, eating a diet that reduces inflammation has been successful at helping these people lose weight.

Fairly recently discovered hormones, ghrelin and leptin, have much to do with weight and energy balance. People who become overweight sometimes have their energy balance throttled back. So they exercise and exercise with little, if any, weight loss. And the appearance of being lazy can be attributed to energy balance being throttled back. A special diet to control ghrelin and leptin helps some overweight people.

Think of our body as an engine. If the motor is badly out of tune, it takes more energy to do the same amount of work as a finely tuned engine. That is the problem facing many overweight people. Losing weight often means that the engine has to be overhauled before major weight loss can take place.

I could go on and on, but I imagine that those of you think think that fat people are lazy and eat too much, will continue to think that regardless of how much information I provide to the contrary. People are overweight for many different reasons.

Some people are fat because they eat too much and are lazy. I'm guessing that is no more than 10% of the total number of people that are obese. These are the people that say "I was fat and all I did was cut back a little and got off my butt". So ask a fat person if they have tried that. Every single one of them will look at you like you are stupid. Of course they have tried cutting back and moving more - and they are still fat. In fact, they are probably fatter after they tried cutting back than they were before. Messing with hormones is dangerous and often results in a fat person becoming fatter.

Why do you think diet programs have such a high failure rate? Almost all of them control calories and have an exercise program. Maybe 5% of people that successfully lose weight actually keep it off. So there must be more to the story.

I've been trying to resist getting drawn into the flames of this thread for days, but, alas, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak!

So, here goes w/my thoughts:

Obesity/being overweight is a complex thing that does not have any one simple cause or solution. Every individual is different. Two people can have the same diet in the same environment, and one can be overweight while the other is not.

Case in point: my two middle children are 15 months apart in age, so you could say they have had exactly the same diet and same environment all their lives. One is stick skinny, the other is overweight and has been since about age two. One was a quiet child, the other extremely active.

So, if simple burning of calories was what keeps one skinny and one not, then the overactive one should be the stick skinny one, right? NO!! My quiet one is the stick and the one we could never keep still is the overweight one.

Okay then, what about birthweights? One was a 7 1/2 pounder at birth, the other was barely over 6 pounds. So, which is which today? The one with absolutely no fat on their little body at birth is the overweight one, the heavier birthweight baby is the stick child.

Is one a picky eater and the other not? No.

So why is one 50+ pounds overweight at 16 and the other is barely coming in 'normal' (prior to the last year or two, was always 'underweight') on the charts at 17? They were raised exactly the same with the same foods, access to physcial activity, etc.

All I can come up with is that one's body processes things differently than the other's. Simply feeding them the same amount of calories each day does not keep the overweight one from gaining more weight. Neither does having them both perform the same physcially exerting tasks for the same length of time.

Their body chemistry is different from each other.

I totally agree!! I would love to hear more!!

I agree.
An EXCELLENT read. (And has, literally, hundreds of professional/medical citations in the end notes.)

From first grade on, there were always chubby classmates. For the first two grades, I was even the biggest in the class despite being the youngest. Every school I attended had a certain number of students which would be considered obese by today's standards. By high school, there were a number of them and mostly girls. That was all before fast food, TV games, and chemicals. What the body does with food is based on the person's metabolism. If chemistry are involved, it's the chemistry in a person's body.

Martin

Boy if that isn't the truth. Many folks have been over wt. long before the chemicals ever entered into anybodies body. And long before plastics and such were in wide use like they are today. And besides there is a whole lot of difference in plastics also. Not all will break down or leach into foods, if you look into what is being used today many things are stored in different types of plastics then was used years ago. So making a blanket statement about such products is not always telling the whole picture. And as long as the polulation keeps getting larger, you will have a higher number of of people getting heavy. The more people the more the chance is of the stats to go up. If the polulation was 200m, and stayed there and the number of people getting heavier, then we have something to talk about but when you increase that number the number of over wt. folks will also go up.

I'd love to know these people that everybody seems to know that have "healthy lifestyles" and "exercise a lot" that are overweight? What does 'overweight' mean? If you mean according to a BMI chart, I'll buy that. If you mean that you know OBESE people that have "healthy lifestyles" and "exercise a lot" I want to meet them.

This is chemistry folks. There is a very well-defined way that calories make it into a person and an exact way they are consumed. It's formulaic and it cannot be denied. Are there some people who are naturally prone to holding weight in specific body areas that others aren't? Yes. Are there the incredibly rare people that have some medical disorder that make them retain weight or water much more than the next person? Yes.

Everyone that is obese is that way because they take in more calories than they burn. It is impossible (laws of physics) for this not to be so. Again, some medical reasons why calories might not be burned efficiently by some, but sharp minority there.

Some toxins, plastics, blah blah blah.... sure, minor effects from all of those and they can build in your system over time, but these are not causal. There is no magical "plastic fumes" that you have in your system that makes poor 'lil 'ol you unable to be reasonably fit.

YOU are the reason you are overweight, and only YOU can solve the problem. Find out how much more you are eating than you are burning (this is a great discipline anyhow), and then find out why you feel this internal drive to compensate with food. Solve that, eat reasonably, exercise regularly and not only will you lose weight, you might improve your overall health (of which weight is only one component).

Sorry... you can go ahead and crow about "judgmental" or "mean" or come up with some more excuses, but things are what they are, and only you can change you. Do you want to sit on your obese behind on your prodigious raft of excuses, adrift in a sea of mental apathy, or do you want to see the sun shine, paddle your behind to the shore, and stand on your own two feet and get control of yourself?

P.S. You got it Pete... keep preaching it. Kris... the cause is the same for almost everyone, though you are absolutely correct that one diet will not work the same way in two different individuals. As far as chemistry goes, the basic intake and burning of calories is - again - established and known. If your body (child) has a rate different than others, know that and compensate.

Right here I am. Work outside, in my garden, all the time. Have done so for years. Before that, I worked construction, mostly doing high work, climbing ladders, water tanks, church steeples, and occasionally change a light in a radio tower. 90% or more of what I eat, I raise, and eat all fresh fruit and vegetables from May through November. I've been outside in the garden most of the morning, its already 91 degrees here. expected high 101 and expected heat index 117. I'll be in it then, too. My BMI is 31.1, in the obese category. I'm 6'5" tall and weigh 262 pounds. I wear a size 15, 5E shoe. I'd look silly if I weighed the low end of "normal" which would be 156 pounds. I'm 60 years old, been a big feller all my life. Haven't seen a doctor since I was 25 years old. Strong enough to wrestle a 3 bottom plow onto a 3 point hitch by myself.
healthy lifestyle, exercise a lot, and am obese. Say anything you want to. But I can work you into the ground before the sun gets up good.
ETA: Here's a picture my grandson took of me yesterday morning, while I was in between the experimental garden and the orchard. Just so you can see what a real live obese person looks like. http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...p/VID00032.jpg

I think you, and others, are completely misunderstanding what is being discussed here.
No one has said obesity is not caused by the fairly simple equation of calories in being higher than calories out.

What IS being said, is that there are various factors that influence the way our bodies UTILIZE those calories. Ie, the "burn."
That "burn" is a direct result of our metabolism. Our "metabolism" is really nothing more than the way our body chemistry functions. (Hormones, primarily)

The point being made is that there are not only genetic factors that influence that metabolism (as there has ALWAYS been), but there are environmental factors as well. There are increasing enviro-toxins in our environment. Everything from the glue that holds the plywood together that made your house, to the off-gassing of your carpet, to the chemicals leeching out of the plastic Gladware tub you nuked your leftovers in.

The way these enviro-toxins not only build up in the body, but also the way it influences your metabolism varies from person to person. But generally speaking, the less enviro-toxins in your environment, the better!

Eat less, move more, don't eat frankenfoods (and simple starches!) and cut the toxins from your environment wherever possible.
To say that toxins have a "minor effect" on something as sensitive as a person's hormonal balance shows an ignorance of the way the body functions. :shrug:

Um, er, not what I was expecting?
Who says you are 'obese'? Some chart?
6'5 is a tall drink of water.....and if you are working all that you say you are above...um, doesn't muscle weigh more than fat?
Maybe you have an extra 10, 20, 30 you don't need.......but obese?
Not quite!!

Obese is defined as BMI over 30. See, thats the problem, every obese person don't weigh 900 pounds. I consider myself to be the average obese old guy.

Gee, I wish I could stand up and preach and display my convictions with your passion. And I wish you could find some way of gaining some compassion. I looked at your blog that you advertised. From my perspective, your Christianity does not seem to be working....

I would really like to walk in your faith and march to your drum, but right now my feet hurt. Maybe later......

geo

Amen.

The overweight people just can't understand that we "skinny" people work hard to remain that way. They think it is easy for us to pass up that second helping or pass by the donuts a co-worker brought in or to force ourselves to do that same boring workout in the summer heat.

If we dare speak up we are labeled as hateful bigots. Then our spelling is attacked. lol

If Al Gore could pay his scientists to link global warming with obesity he would immediately gain many more supporters.

It's a well-known fact that environmental toxins cause cancer. But people don't think they would also have a substantial effect on a person's metabolism??

Seriously??

This has nothing to do with bigotry, or being judgmental, or anything....


Just turn on your brains and THINK people!! lol

A) 60 is not old!
B) How is BMI calculated? Is it simply height to weight ratio? If that's the case, what about the ultra buff body builder who is 5'4" but weighs 200lbs of solid muscle?

THIS tells me that the statistics (imagine that) are full of horse feathers.

When I think of 'obese' I think of people who (for a lack of better words) are huge. Like 5'7" and 270lbs. Or 5'2" and 230lbs. Where clearly, their weight has brought on an onslaught of medical conditions that would go away if they lost 100 lbs......People who take up two seats on an airplane or at a sporting event.....that's what *I* think when the word *obese* is used.
Certainly NOT you sir!!

Hmmmmm
Could this fit into conspiracy theory?
That the government is intentionally poisoning our food, to enable us from 'fighting back'?
That the government is intentionally 'dumbing us down' so that when the older generations die off, what is left is a bunch of mindless drones that will goose step to any drumbeat?
That the governement is intentionally tainting our 'vaccines' and 'medicines' to 'generationally' alter us? To slowly exterminate entire bloodlines, and races?

I am not being a horses hiney, I am being serious.

At the very least.......this could be the governments way of FURTHER DIVIDING US. They pit color against color, religion vs religion, rich vs poor, now they are calling people "obese" (micheles pet project) and well, look at the 2-3 threads here.....it's ugly.

Makes me go hmmmmmm.
United we Stand. Divide, we fall.

Yes it is and now this is going back to being a front page story on the National Enquirer number one story of the day.

Your opinion is wrong and you cannot provide any scientific studies to back it up.

A simple google search list many sources of information. Every single one I looked at listed eating too much and exercising to little as THE major causes of obesity.

Here you go.

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#hl...944c933340e603

Much drudgery work has been mechanized, but the real reason nobody wants the hard manual labor jobs is that the people hiring for such jobs still want to pay same wages they paid decades ago. Not lot people have ever rushed to volunteer for slavery. And slaves at least got housing and food for their efforts. Wage slaves arent even guarenteed that much.

Those are not scientific studies.

I'm talking about something like this:

I'm in 100% agreement that overeating can be addictive bahavior, certainly a lot if it is habitual. People used to eat because they needed to.

Now they eat because they are bored, tired, stressed, lonely, angry, depressed, controlling, even happy, on and on. Much of it is habit, as people prepare large fatening feasts for the "big game", or always buy $18 "worth" of popcorn, candy and drink, at the movie theatre, just because they always do.

A lot of it is the culture of eating.

People used to cook and eat for sustinance only, since that is about all they had.

In later years, cooking and eating became an "event" The huge thanksgiving dinner, the blue-ribbon apple pie winning at the county fair. That resturaunt has the best steaks in town.

Now, its food manufacturers making food too "delicious" and the all-you-can-eat buffets, that are the main foused of eating.

And your healthcare degree is in what may I ask? Sounds like you just enjoy being a troll to me.

Here is a short (14 minutes) interview with Gary Taubes. He doesn't quote specific scientific studies, but he does discuss what the studies say does work. He is a research journalist and spent 5 years going over scientific studies on obesity and diet.



There are several more detailed videos on youtube. some running over an hour.

Keep in mind that Taubes' work does not include important studies done in the last 5 years or so.

Oh boy.

Check the sources of many of the links I provided to you. Are you saying that these reputable organizations are not relying on scientific evidence to make these claims?

From your own link:

Why is the number of people growing? Are they getting ghrelin injections? Could it be that the lifestyle has induced the imbalance of the two hormones being studied.


Might be a bit early to jump on that wagon.

I'll stick to the hundreds of reputable sources that believe over eating and inactivity are the leading causes of obesity.

Here is a very interesting quote from the Wiki article on Taubes:


Hmmmmm......


It was very clearly established in another thread that anyone without formal education in nutritional science doesn't have a valid opinion.

Almost sounds like Taubes is just the latest in a long line of snake oil salesman trying to cash in.

Make no mistake, I am all about personal responsibility.....

But
If you notice, when you go to buy a 'muffin' it's the size of a basket ball.
If you have dinner in a restaurant, the portions are enormous.
Super Size is the word of the day.
"Small drinks" do not exist anymore.....it's Med Lrg or Ginormormous.

Throw in a little MSG to make even a pile of dog poop taste good, genetically alter food so that when those chemicals meet the God given chemicals in the brain, it shuts off the "don't eat anymore" button.
Complicate it with the chemicals, artificial colors and flavors that bind with our natural God given chemical make up.....and the fact the human body was not Designed to injest such toxins therefore doesn't know how to rid itself of those toxins......

Then top that turd sundae with the 'cherry' of a first ladies agenda of 'exposing' obesity and doing nothing to get at the root of the problem.
Anyone can call an overweight kid "a fat kid" but those who have her power and prestige should be seeking the root of the problem instead of throwing money time and effort at the symptoms.

Yeah, we're in a pretty big mess.

Is anyone on here a chemist? Surely someone with extensive knowledge of chemistry (and no political agenda) can explain in laymens terms what happens to the human body when its Designed purpose is constantly bombarded with artificial chemical toxins.

I've got nothing against feasting--that special blue moon get-together where everyone brings their best stuff and great food is literally orgasmic. It's just that "we" are feasting every day. No wonder.

Well said!!:thumb: