Rethinking Wally World

Comfortablynumb, thank You! This is exactly what we need. Good thing I'm a fast reader, that third site is still gonna take some considerable time.

Wonder what else we can get out of? :haha:

Amy

Costco does more or less the same thing with both appliances and types of food/container sizes. They carry generally one model made just for them, or one they saw was the brand-name's big seller. I would also say that the brand names have to be backed up by the real company, or there would have been major lawsuits by now if they were clones.

Nobody is forced to go work at WM. I still don't understand why people complain about the wages there. I mean, gee, this is unskilled labor we're talking about, for the most part. Most places will not pay high wages for unskilled labor, unless a union is involved, and guess what, you don't get any better, more productive workers with union wages, and the workers get even more rude to customers now, because they can't get fired.

If you want to make more money, change your skill sets. There was a Yahoo story where it was talking about registered nurses being able to go online and bid for shifts and pay. $30 an hour.

There will always be brands that will not sell to WM and they still do fine. There will always be small businesses that will continue to do well because as big as WM is, it cannot do everything.

I can't help but think that our days of earning more money than folks in third world countries are numbered.

It seems it would be wise to prepare to see your income shrink over the next ten years. Get that farm paid off and see if you can reach a state of self sufficiency.

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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Here is the link to the story on nurses:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._shift_bidding

It is possible that technology could be the downfall of wally.

What if you could have a device like one of those little palm computers. And you could tell the palm about what was important to you. And then there were a board of experts at, say, something like consumer reports, that would rate attributes of several items. So you could go to the store, shop for pants, and the device would tell you that pants A has lots of returns, the seams blow out, is made in china, and is generally rated poorly. And then pants B is just an okay pair of pants, but costs 30% more. Further, you can see that pants B is sold by many stores and another store three miles away is having a sale, so you can get it 15% cheaper than the price where you are standing.

Maybe when buying foods, your device could reflect information on whether a vendor works with small farmers.

Maybe this could be a program built into cell phones. And cell phones could have a little UPC code reader so you can get the number quickly.

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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Some of the best advice gets forgotted when we walk into a huge store with all it's glittering wares, tempting us to spend our way into next years budget. Maybe Wally World is another one of the ways out standard of living will be lowered to eventually match the rest of the world ecomony (as it rises). Cheaper and cheaper stuff, jobs evaporating, America's major industry is "service" scratch that idea, India is taking over the customer service & ordering departments - we'll be dispatched on service calls from India next!

I agree Paul, the more global we get, and at what a cost...? Who makes the engines for John Deere tractors...?

"It is possible that technology could be the downfall of wally." The article (see first post's link), mentioned A&P grocery stores... remember them? A little competition is good, but using your wholesale buying muscle to gut the competition to make a monopoly scares me. Wally World was on track to use the radio tags to track products whereabouts - but backed out when it got out on the Internet. They will bow to public pressure, or scare.

If the power really rests with the consumer, then we need to start asking for organically raised, free range beef, chickens & pork - just imagine Tyson suddenly buying from grunts like us...:haha: They are giving what the consumer wants, low prices, so enough requests for higher quality (anything at all), might turn Wally World back into something that looked more like Sam Walton's World.

Maybe the current state of Wally World isn't a bad thing. After seeing all the posts to this thread, I'm beginning to see there is more and more people with an alternative mind set. Thanks to Wally World for opening up a bigger and bigger market for organic & natural farmers. Knowing where your food was grown, who grew it and how they grew it just makes sense. No sense in eating cheap food from timbucktoo if the money you saved gets burnt up in hospital bills!

From here on, I am inclined to:

1. Buy from someone I know personally,
2. A local organization / company,
3. A national chain with local roots (if that makes sense)
4. An international type company (ie., Wally World)

Nothing hard & fast, just an order of preference for me. Probably will cost about the same, make more friendships... Thanks everyone for the thought provoking discussion.

Bill

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Bill

on the tax thing... tread really carefully and then do a search on "tax amnesty scams". there are a few ways peple try that and courts already ruled agaist it. the last link I put there outlines the one way no court can argue with, that being using their own wording agaist em. its pretty complicated, but if your good at taxes, it should make sense.
my method of avoiding taxes is not letting them know I have any money in the first place. Unless someone insists on giving you a weekly paycheck, thats as easy as it gets. barter your labor and take the cash under the table, which very often is as much an advantage for you as it is for the guy who hires you.
the whole crux of the thing is the definitions... salaries and wages are compensation for labor and not income, as they define income as profit from business and investment.. keep that in mind and it is a matter of filing the right form, not the 1040 they shove at you.
there is a section there someplace that gives you a form letter to send to your employer to terminate your volontary particpation in tax withholding and the social security tax withholding. as you will read the law very spacificly states, the withholding of incom tax and SS tax by your employer is VOLONTARY on your part and can be terminated at any time simply by sending the employer a notice of that fact.
tax-freedom.com sells a package deal with all the prewritten notifications and response letters and tax forms from the IRS to make it easy.. I'm not one to go buy information, but if I was going to do it I'd probably pop for the 30 bucks for the paperwork package. there 100$ CD rom had all the paperwork packages in it plus other stuff... if you can find a bunch of co workers and freinds to split the cost, get one CD and copy it for all the people kicking in a share to get it.
I do think though if ya read and search the net enough you can get all that info and do it yourself for free.. but you gotta admit the form letter on page
http://users.erols.com/scambos/ta06025.htm
is so well written, its probably worth the cash to not have to try to put that together out of your own head.
I have wallyworld syndrome... i'd pay for the convienence.
I will when fate makes me get a full time job, and the employer wont hire me when I refuse to fil out a w4 form.. LOL
(if you read in there someplace, it says.. very spacificly, you can give the employer a written conformation your an american citizen and a resident, and they HAVE to take that instead of your filled out W4... its right in the law ON the irs instruction pages.. (links are on the tax freedom site also.)

it wont be a pretty day when they really want to fight about the issue with you but..... its THEIR law... your not liable to pay income tax, your a wage earning citizen.
now profit from investments and such.. thats a whole other issue. this issue is spacific to your with held income tax and SS tax taken from your wages.
remember wages and salaries are not income? PROFIT is income.
I dont pretend to underatand it all either... when you figure it out too and find some error in my comprehension PLEASE start a new thread on it and educate the rest of us....
my mom read some of the printouts I printed for her (she does EVERYONES taxes) and she laughed and giggles, says "those fithy thieves... what a great scam!".
shes gonna file my sisters taxes with the "correct" forms next time and see what happens... she cant wait, she hates the peabrains at the IRS. she always has to hang on the phone every year arguing conflictingf stuff she comes across.
keep readin.... it gets really interesting dont it?

Comfortablynumb, ok I'll figure it out so I can explain it for everyone else....I'll be starting that thread in 5 years. I have to go to college first.

Really, if there's anything to this at all, I think I'll jest go ahead and stir up the nation. At least the 500 people I know well . As someone once said, "taxation WITH representation ain't so hot either!"

My grandpa drew social security and his union retirement, but his main income was all under the table. He didn't figure anybody had a right to a dime of it. He made money shoeing horses, building buggies, welding, and rebuilding fallen-down barns. He also would oversee do-it-yourselfers who wanted to build a house or put in a septic system. Oh, yeah, then he learned to repair antique sewing machines to sell, and then he bought a fancy machine and started sewing custom upholstery for car and buggy seats.

I sure do miss him! I wish he'd lived long enough for me to learn more from him.

in keeping with the topic of this thread, Grandpa quit going to town when 3-D and Danners were bought out by Kmart, and that was 20 years ago!

I'm not even sure it's an alternative mindset. I think it's just good common sense to support your neighbors by buying from them, and to look for the best value, which generally ISN'T at Walmart.

The only reason I would even think of going into a Walmart is because there's one in Muskogee which sells a fruit drink I like, and I can't seem to find it anywhere else.

But is that fruit drink enough reason for me to shop at Walmart? No. I have plenty of nice little grocery stores to buy from and locally owned big ad highend groceries not that far from me and small shops which sell good tools and etc., thank you.

Wal-Mart is just like Microsoft..a bully intent on killing off the alternatives, but I do think the American people are part and parcel of the problem. God forbid I don't watch TV, don't care/bet about football, don't have a fancy new car, homeschool, practice civility and manners....Americans have very little appreciation for creativity, independant thinking and individualism. As a teacher in a "government school", and member of the NEA, I am a practicing hipocrit. I hate the conformity of the public school, the mentality of most of the idiot parents, the utter incompetance of the administrators and most of the kids are ungrateful little sh***. I disagree with a substantial number of the NEA's positions. So what can I do?

I work within. I don't often go to Wal-Mart. I don't choose Microsoft. I, and my family, spend time together on our small farm, surround ourselves with books, classical music, art and trips to all kinds of wonderful places. My wife stays home and does the most important job in the world (Mommy) I work two jobs away, two at home. We save our money. The kids ride their ponies, collect bugs and make "Art". My wife and I don't sleep much, we're too busy being the adults. As Tolstoy said "The most important things in Life are Work and Love."

The excesses of the average American are astounding. Wal-Mart feeds this unfettered greed, and the American people love it.

I'm amazed at the some of the ideas bantied about in this thread.

Just my two cents.

Either pay the taxes or spend the money you save and then some on a good tax lawyer, to help fight the case. Of course this maybe drawn out for years, so be prepared to pay that lawyer more then what it would have cost you to pay the taxes in the first place. Uncle Sam rarely loses. You may even have to take it all the way to the Supeme Court for a ruling, wow, your really saving those dollars aren't you?

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Marriage is like a hot bath, after you've been in it awhile, It's not so Hot.

Townmouse; I didn't mean to imply that you had any obligation other then what your heart and head tell you. Guess I just look at things differently. I only see two ways for the working class in countries like China to better themselves, one is through political activation the other is through civil war. Political activation takes much dedication, time, and effort, seems to me to be able to do this people need not be worried about food and such that money/a job will provide. Even if the pay rate seems sub-standard to me I don't really know if it makes people better off there or not, but assume it does.
Civil war does not, but with gun controll being what it is over there the working class would take very heavy casualties, and I expect it will reach the worth-it threshold sooner or later.
Boycotts can and do work if enough get involved, wish you luck.
Understand the Used Items thing, we shop at a lot of thrift stores, yard sells, scratch and dent stuff also, We hardly ever buy at wal-mart, just don't see that many good deals, not because I hate them for their business practices, after all Sears has never made anything themselves just subcontracted the manufacturing process out to the lowest bidder and put their name on it.

Unregistered,

Perhaps you should think about a change of career, as it seems your attitude might poison the process of learning in a classroom. Everyone and everything is to blame for the problems in America, everything except your own prejudiced and ill-informed mindset.

For people who like to bash the quality of teachers in our public schools, you provide ample grist for the mill. Please learn how to spell correctly and use proper grammar before you reveal your ignorance to the world.

Give us a break....
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"Unregistered,

Perhaps you should think about a change of career, as it seems your attitude might poison the process of learning in a classroom. Everyone and everything is to blame for the problems in America, everything except your own prejudiced and ill-informed mindset.

For people who like to bash the quality of teachers in our public schools, you provide ample grist for the mill. Please learn how to spell correctly and use proper grammar before you reveal your ignorance to the world."
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Log in already. I did, and nobody came knocking at my door, my spam mail hasn't increased - and I'm thinking, since I like this web site (not everything), I'm gonna send some $$$ to the SysOp and become a minor contributor. Ken, or Don or whoever, I feel sorry for the frustration you guys go through moderating this thing, I would have CUT OFF the ability of unregistered users LONG AGO. I understand, sometimes you compose a reply and forget to log in, but...


I have a brother-in-law that is a 2nd grade teacher, has been for 30 years. One of my co-workers wives is a public school teacher, 4 years, my last landlord has been teaching for 28 years. They ALL say the same thing:

1. it's getting dangerous
2. most kids do not come to school prepared to be taught or willing to learn
3. they stop learning the 2 weeks before Christmas, and the first warm day of spring (some time in May)
4. they WISH they chose a different career, 'cause that one is looking worse each year.
5. they all believe they're on a mission from God to reform and bring up the next generation.

I don't prompt them for their complaints, they just start volunteering them, sometimes laughing, sometimes almost crying.


BTW... Did you find any really good bargains at Wally World this Christmas shopping season, or almost get mowed down by a 350lb human freight train lumbering down the aisle behind an oveloaded shopping cart in search of a XBox game? :haha: (Hey, is that a run on!?)

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Bill

Herb, I get what you're saying about the plight of the Chinese. I realize that I'm not helping them. I've heard of sweatshop workers in Guam who feel like they're on top of the world, because they can do that instead of prostitution now. I have no solutions, I wish I did.


The only reason we ever got on this kick of not buying things from places that persecute Christians, is that the topic came up awhile back. I didn't even start it. But the Christians we were with, basically said, "getting a low price on paper plates is more important to me than persecuted Christians. If they don't like China, they should come to America. They don't know me anyway, its not like I'm hurting them myself." This same crew made fun of me for putting the babies in cloth diapers. They don't care about the mountain of trash they constantly generate. Those trucks come twice a week to haul it away, right? Not my problem. :no: I gotta get out of the suburbs.

The problem with the cheap/slave labor is, once another source is found, the companies just move on. That has already happened in Korea. In the late 70's early 80's all this cheap merchandise was being made in Korea. China saw what was happening,and jumped on the band wagon. Now Koreans are having a depressed economy. The mindset of helping these workers doesn't compute.All your doing is helping the companies to continue to use these people and move on when they find cheaper labor to start the cycle all over.

These companies don't care where they get cheap labor as long as it's cheap. Once these countries have a change of living (money, meger as it is) the labor force starts to depend on that $5 a week, then BAM. it's gone.

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Marriage is like a hot bath, after you've been in it awhile, It's not so Hot.

Here we go..."...change your career, as it seems your attitude might poison the process of learning..." Perhaps, I am allowed to dissent from the usual claptrap that is spouted out by the liberal educational establishment. There's nothing wrong with observation, deduction and truth. I never said anything about "everyone and everything is to blame for the problems in America". You make my point-you are calling me "...prejudiced..." , against what? And "...ill-informed..." how? I'm in the classroom 5 days a week. I know what I see. Who are you O They Who Know All.

And please, Ms/Mr English Teacher, I'm sorry I offend your weak sensibilities. Cut me down better than telling me I spell poorly and use bad grammer. I'm a certified teacher in the State of Maine, what can I say? I can't speel or tipe guud enghlesh. Yes, you're right, I "provide ample grist for the mill." I have committed a Mortal Sin-I've spelled a few words wrong, flipped a couple of words around, and especially on this huge public forum! I'm a rotten teacher, daddy and Human Being, in essence I'm the Spawn of Satan.

Well, one way to help people in the third world is to create "fair trade" agreements instead of "free trade" agreements. Having Wally World pay chinese workers 10 cents an hour doesn't really help them, and it sure as heck doesn't help them buy our products. It just makes them go through the same labor struggles we went through 100 yrs ago, while stripping us of the standards our forefather's earned.

The US has the buying power to accomplish 'fair trade' by demanding better labor, environmental and human rights standards from importers. Heck, Walmart itself apparently has the buying power, if they'd only use it for good and not evil. Doing this would also protect jobs at home, while still providing the benefits that come along with healthy trade. Instead the US pursues agreements like NAFTA and the FTAA, which hurts 'us' and 'them' and only helps large corporations and corrupt governments.

That's what all the protests down in Miami were all about a couple of weeks ago. Adding fair trade provisions to the FTAA.

I doubt that people who buy our goods overseas are paying the same prices that we are. They can only charge what the market will bear, after all.

The tax stuff is interesting to read, but why is it okay to rail against WM for not paying taxes if you don't want to either?

Forgive me, I'm trying to wrap my head around this... So "fair trade" would mean that american companies should only buy from foreign companies that pay their workers something closer to what american workers are paid and treat them nice.

I suppose there could be a chain of stores called "Fair Mart" that would sell only goods that are either made in the US or made by folks that are treated nice and paid okay. Kinda like the rules of the company won't tolerate the ten cents an hour thing, slave labor, seatshops, child labor, etc. I suspect that the prices will be higher and 95% of the public will vote with their dollars at walmart instead of fairmart.

Some folks here might be talking about corporate greed. I think walmart is really a creation of consumer greed. If you were to take out walmart, something just like it will fill the void. Walmart is not the problem. It's the symptom.

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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