Where you live and Regulation

You do realize we are only couple generations from when MOST people in USA didnt have electric or indoor plumbing? Guess all your ancestors before rural electrification were just uncouth filthy fools.....

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

I would bet that what they are spreading is not human waste. If liquid cow manure has an overpowering stench to it I would bet the cattle are not being fed a natural diet. More likely chicken manure and other waste products including cow parts. I live in the heart of dairy country and the only places that have that stench are factory farms where cattle are confined 24/7.

So "Homesteading Today" in your mind means you can live in less than sanitary conditions with less than safe housing?

It's because the government figures the average American is too ignorant to make good choices and find someone who will do things right. So they come up with regulations that just leave Americans free to wallow in their ignorance.....brilliant!

Once again, if you live in a place that allows that, and you are fine with it, good for you. Even if I lived there, with the completely lax laws you have, I would still build a house with 2 exits from each bedroom.

I am no fan of mobile homes. Wouldn't live in one. The difference is they have to meet a building code. If you are going to use that as a measurement then what about regular homes that are destroyed by tornados? Or schools? Or businesses? Are they all not to be inhabited either?

Again, and i'm not sure why this is so hard to understand, as an ADULT you can choose to live in a hole in the ground, or a tree fort, or whatever. The issue for me comes in when you decide to involve children in your decisions.

You know what I hate? Crawling inside of a home that's on fire with less than code, or down right illegal modifications. Those things endanger my life. Suppose the fire department said we will not enter any homes that do not meet the uniform building code. Then what?

We have an all-volunteer fire department..we have no building codes..the fire department volunteers live the same way that we do..in your mind, it seems..anyone who is against zoning is some kind of cretin who doesn't know how to build a home safely..hang around HT a bit more and you might..might..learn something.

I suggest that you broaden your horizons a bit..

Hm, do you have a tv? Why? Do you have a refrigerator? Why? Do you have running water? Why? Obviously you have a computer. Why? I am sure the ancestors of which you speak didn't have any of them. Hence the fallacy of your argument.

nevermind

Look, let me make this perfectly clear:

I don't care how you live, I don't care what you choose to live in, I don't care what building codes you choose to follow or not follow. It has absolutely no effect on me at all.

I prefer to homestead safely, in a home that guarantees safe exits in the event of a fire, built according to code to survive normal expected weather conditions, built at least to code for insulation and weather proofing, wired and plumbed to code. Sorry if that offends you all.

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want an open sewage lagoon on their property. The stench, the bugs, and the danger of someone falling in.

As far as getting out more...why? I live in rural Wisconsin virtually surrounded by farms and it is easy to tell which ones follow traditional grass feeding of their cattle and which ones lot feed crap like chicken manure, cow parts, chemically altered feed, BGH and more. Those that stay closer to natural feed have cattle that don't emit that foul smelling stench, those that feed the junk have cattle that produce manure that almost makes you want to vomit.

Okay so someone explain to me about individual home sewage lagoons. I admit what knowledge I have is based on larger municipal systems.

Here's your chance to educate me and try to convince me of the merits of sewage lagoons.

Haven't you ever heard of lage municipal sewer systems overflowing and discharging raw sewage right upstream from where the next town gets it's drinking water? How about all the contaminants that aren't removed in the "purification and filtration" process? Or the solid waste and sludge that must be disposed of? Face it, big minicipal systems aren't safe as the big shots want you to think.

An outhouse that is properly maintained (lye, lime, peat, whatever you use to cut down the smell, and moved as it fills up) is generally safer for the groundwater supply than big sewer systems. I say generally safer because in areas with a high water table the waste has a possibiliy of contaminating a drinking water supply. But that risk in an area with low population density is extremely small.

I prefer outhouses. I can't see contaminating good water.

Do you go potty on your tv and computer? Having a computer has little to do with going potty or building a solid house that wont fall on your head. Course maybe you do things differently in your household? Maybe you need somebody to tell you where to go potty and to make empty guarantees that the sky doesnt fall on your head? Hey how about all those govt experts that keep okaying the building of fancy homes in flood plains and on beaches? Or those that ok'd rebuilding houses in hurricane areas over and over that cant withstand even 60 mph winds. Yep, I have so much trust in "experts" to protect. Or those geniuses that trying to fill the Gulf of Mexico with oil and oil dispersant. Yep, gotta love those experts that know how to make and keep the world safe.

And actually I dont have running water! Havent got sick and died of it yet. And my house built without permits hasnt collapsed on my head the last 20 years and has stood up to some quite big storms. I am quite willing to give up my grid connection any time. Rather have freedom to build and live as I want without asking permission over grid electric service. I've lived 10 years in the past with no electric service and five of those ten years without refrigerator, all that ten years with kerosene lamps only. Finally did get a propane refrigerator. If you arent aware you can have tv, radio, refrigerator and lots of other things without being connected to the grid. You just have to think about what is worth having and what is not worth having.

My father was born in 1916 and my mother in 1919 and very sure they didnt have electric or indoor plumbing until after WWII. So I am pretty sure of my facts. Are you? Did your ancestors just spontaneously come into being with electric service? Were they created by the god of the electric grid? Born with an electric cord and plug in their hand? Rural electrification project was mostly finished by 1950s, but few more remote areas didnt get electric until the 1960s. Thats moving it into the lifespan of many on this board. Are you calling anybody born before 1970 filthy and degenerate? Nobody had any sense until govt told them how to build a solid structure and where to carp? Boy its amazing people made it into the modern age with all those log cabins falling in on themselves and people swimming in sewage. Must explain Lincolns brain injury that caused him to kill nearly a million people. You do realize the White House was built long before permits. Just look how its collapsed in on itself and all the presidents that were electrocuted by poor wiring. Shameful.... Didnt they realize they needed modern experts to ok everything or they would spontaneously combust and die? Oh and where did George Washington and Thomas Jefferson take care of their bodily needs? Were they swimming in sewage, just drop their pants and take a carp wherever they were standing when they felt the urge??? Boy those were the days. Good thing we have the govt now to tell us where to take a carp and sell us a permit to do so...

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

It makes it into news everytime we have big rain how the city sewage systems are overwhelmed and release raw sewage into rivers and creeks. And the city residents whose houses were given permits by experts and the raw sewage backs up into their houses and how their permitted houses have flooding problem because the experts ok'd building in flood plain without adequate drainage systems in place.

Yep, its such a good thing to be protected by permits, cause boy those experts care first and formost about your welfare, not at all about the fees it generates or the controls so only fat cat developers can construct houses and bankers can make good living collecting interest on loans for overpriced housing from those developers.

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

I grew up having to use an outhouse. Lots of entomology lessons during those times. Spiders, different colored flies, wiggly maggots, menancing devil's darning needles, bumblebees that made you cut off your business in mid stream, and those sweat bees hovering and examining your tender body parts.

geo

Since we got Electric we have got alot of neat things but the one thing I really like is being able to be cool enough to sleep at night.All the other is not really needed.

big rockpile

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Some people act so ridiculous when it comes to people poo and it is very obvious you have no idea what happens when someone's holding tank gets pumped out. I'll enlighten you, it gets spread all over the place on someone's field. You can drive by a farm field and see toilet paper on the field. The treatment method consist of taking lime and adding it to the mix. It is no different than if I build an outhouse and put a little lime down the hole to keep the smell down.

I used to work in my county's courthouse right next to the Planning and Zoning dept. The head guy used to complain about the Amish wanting to put in pit privys all the time. I honestly can't see how having an outhouse is worse for anyone's health over spreading human waste all over a friggin field. Another thing that gets me is how gray water can't be simply dumped onto the ground and has to go into a holding tank (where it eventually winds up on the ground anyway) yet the near by town's storm drains get dumped right into the river. I guess dish soap and laundry detergent is a big no no yet somehow it is okay to dump oil/gas and what ever else leaking from cars straight into the river

My county used to be really lax but between all the out of town folks wanting to buy a piece of the Northland and the state push for state wide building codes this place has become like everywhere else.

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I have stated that I don't care how you live as adults. You have the right to decide how you want to live, within societal constraints of course.

As for my parents, my Dad was born in 1919 and my mother in 1929. So much for that side of your attack on me. It seems tyou have run out of logical and substantial support of your position so you have chosen to turn this into personal attacks on me.

Have a nice life and do try to clam down before you hurt yourself.

You make a good case for revoking about 95% of the rules and regulations.

All the new rules seem to come equipped with a fee (TAX) of some kind or other. Then most if not all come with the cost of administration. Inspectors, secretarial work, computer space required, committees, and so on. All these operations require money to operate. The only way to get the money is taxation.

Nobody objects to the responsibility involved, it is the constant TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, that is the problem

Fyredup, I dont know if its intentional or not but you are classically illustrating the intent of my post. It seems to me that most folks from the upper midwest feel similar to you (PhilJohnson and some others a glaring exception) while most folks in the south feel somewhat different and to me its a clear geographic divide and I am wondering why; as I said before is it the inevitiability of it as your population grows? is it conditioning from government? or did you just move to placews that you felt more comfortable having guidelines to live your life?

Fyredup, you came on this thread and implied those who disagreed with you are dirty, unsafe, and jeopardise their kids and with absolutely zero knowledge of the matter you react with revulsion over methods of dealing with sewage that dont involve porecelin and that dont just whisk away what you are obviously repulsed by (your description of a septic lagoon above is actually comical). As a former firefighter you make some good points and I doubt any of us on this board disagree that we would put a bedroom where there was no secondary means of egress we just disagree that we need to pay a fee or have some so called expert like you come and make sure we do that.

You apparently would rather fight fires in a modern home full of plastics and polyesthers, and glues, and other things that are extremely toxic. Great, I wouldnt and your welcome to it. Everyone now wants an airtight home and no inconvenience and builders today do meet minimal code due to all of the rules and regulations but do you really expect that new home to be standing 60 or 100 years from now?

Its just a viewpoint Fyredup and HermitJohn was using his parents birthdates as an Illustration that they didnt have all of the things you think are so vitally important and that some of us arent that far removed from it it wasnt a personal attack.

No one is trying to change your viewpoint but you classically illustrate this divide and I thank you for that. Here is a link to the University of Nebraska that describes septic and lagoon systems. I dont know if you understand traditional septic systems with leach fields or how a lot of municiple sewage systems function either but sewage doesnt magically disappear and many farms use sewage lagoons to deal with animal waste.

I have avoided any mention of composting toilets because I suspect that really isnt something you would embrace am I right?

http://lancaster.unl.edu/acreageguide/waste.shtml

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