A cheap and reliable food supply

That Planet of the Apes. Statue of Liberty scene. Movie scenes don't get no better than this. From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_...pes_(1968_film)


After an unspecified time spent following the shoreline, Taylor and Nova find something on the shore; Taylor stops the horse and dismounts, approaching the object before descending into a fit of rage and screaming: "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! ---- you. God ---- you all to hell!" The picture zooms out to reveal the charred remnants of the Statue of Liberty, half-submerged in the shoreline, revealing that the planet he was on was Earth the whole time.

Now you ruined the ending for a whole new generation who hasn't seen it!

Julia I am curious do you honestly think those in an urban setting can't produce at least some of their own food? Or are you just being facetious for your own entertainment?

Julia apparently hasn't seen the same websites, magazine and newspaper articles, and TV segments that I have.

There is an amazing amount of food being grown in a lot of cities- rooftops, vacant lots, abandoned parking lots, balconies, yards, community gardens, etc.

That one man was in a couple magazines recently and on TV, his lot is something like a 1/4 acre, and of course less than that left over after the room taken up by the house, he and his family grow ALL their own food and have plenty left to sell. (Not surprising that it can be done. Many farms in China are less than an acre in size. Those farms produce not only all the food the large family needs, but plenty to sell, too).

Oh, and look up the Garden Girl videos on youtube. She grows an incredible amount of food in her tiny city yard. She hosts, or was hosting, a TV show about producing large amounts of food in small areas.

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Yep, it was free to you. The rest of us paid for it.

Hard to say. The government doesn't just spend taxes - in fact, they usually spend taxes within the first couple of months. The rest may come from other countries putting their money with us, for us to "safehold it". Or, maybe the government just printed up some pretty cash and sent it out, inflating the value of the dollar. That's the problem with paper money - it can be inflated. When the federal reserve was made, they knew what they were doing.
So, next time you see someone using EBT, or the feds pay for a police car, or Obama gives you another $200 check... Don't be so sure that it's just your neighbors money, coming back to you.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

it was/ is free to a lot of people who pay taxes.

Did you forget your facetiousness smiley?

Amazing, that no one answered a very simple question, a counterpoint to the OP's question... mine was "So, logically, if you dislike the concept of cheap and reliable, then you are for expensive and unreliable."

I think we have two divergent points of world view here... those dreaming about pie in the sky and those with pies in the hand. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wishing that your worldview would come to fruition... but to think it'll ever reach out beyond a niche market is just that, a dream. I 'know' what I'm doing, and if I make a minor mistake, in the garden, it's game over for that crop, and if I want more, I have to start over. Luckily, we have a 9 month growing season most years, and I 'could' redo. Some places only have a four month season, and there's no room for mistakes.

Mentioned only one person mentioned what would happen if the cheap food disappeared overnight, or if the oil stopped flowing. Either of these two are basic recipes for the Golden Hordes to be unleashed, and soon after the "Zombies". I don't care if you're swimming in oil or manure (from off site, most likely, a 'closed system' quickly collapses, if products are being exported off site, and nothing is coming in, whether it be manure, soil, amendments, compost, etc.) if cheap oil and cheap food disappears, organics won't last the first threshing/gleaning of the Hordes.

ADMIN: Please give us a Facetious Smiley (whatever the heck that might look like!)

If your not on your own dirt, free and clear, you're doomed!

Even if you can grow food amidst the Golden Horde... it's only viable as long as the Hordes are Fat and Sassy... after three days without food, the rioting, burning, looting, rape and pillage will negate. Imho, the time spent on gardening in the city would better be used to work extra hours or another job, to buy land out in God's Country.

side note: It's hard for me to imagine anyone who hasn't seen Planet of the Apes (orginal version) or Soylent Green. These should be mandatory curriculum.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Somehow this seems appropriate here.

Target boosts grocery sections, nixes gardening supplies

Target says it's feeding the demands of its customers, who want increased convenience.

Target is phasing out all its garden sections, planning to get rid of them by September. It says the garden areas are no longer profitable.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/busine...g06-ar-263290/

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Nope I am not. My point was that it will not be that much more expensive, it won't be any less reliable and it will be better for us all around. GMO crops with all the fertilizers and pesticides fail too. Under the normal things that cause crop failure like droughts and weather issues and things like that organic does better. So the idea that the current system is reliable is simply not true. It would take very little to destroy our current food chain.

well reasonably inexpensive and fairly reliable at the store..but not necessarily nutritious.

but all it will take is some catastrophie to interrupt it and then it isn't there..that is when you want to be able to walk out into your yard and pick your breakfast, lunch and supper

A question for you. Does your use of the term "Organic" mean not using hybrids for food crops? Ie, use only open pollinated varieties.

Ya I would like to see a true organic feed doing better under stress conditions then those crops that have been special designed to go through hard times and still come out far ahead.

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Oh no, folks, I, Me, JuliaAnn, am saying NONE of those things.

What I have done is merely to hold up a mirror to reflect many of the statements many have made on this thread and a couple others going on HT. I, Me, JuliaAnn, simply PARAPHRASED what I have been reading. Go back, find some threads, read for yourselves.

I cannot help it if some don't like looking in the mirror and seeing themselves reflected.

I DO think it is shameful for otherwise reasonable people to make comments like 'gee, hope you've got your life insurance or your burial plot paid for" or whatever it was. That's just snotty and crappy. Period. Those who make statements like that need to learn some basic, fundamental DECENCY for other people, even if you think they are beneath your contempt because they don't live or eat or think the way you do. Where is your decency?

Yes, I did forget my fascetious smiley. I had assumed that most if not all of the folks here would have understood such brazenly fascetious words as I posted.

Folks don't seem to understand how those who do not collect government food funds and pay their own way sometimes only have finite funds for food. And like it or not, that $3 gallon homogonized milk is STILL good nutrition (all three of the major milk suppliers in this area have their products labeled as hormone free; believe it or not, as you will) and is certianly not any worse nutrition than the 6.99 gal. organic milk. If someone has 20 bucks, you bet your backside they're NOT going to buy the organic, because those extra few dollars will buy OTHER food. You can spend your 20 bucks on three or four organic items, or buy 'regular' milk plus get several other items that are just as nutritious (NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT BUYING TWINKIES OR POTATO CHIPS SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT STUPID ARGUMENT). I know, I did it for years, and I"m not 'obese' or diabetic or any such thing; my health is quite good.

And to those who claim buying organic from the store is not that much more expensive... I don't question the proof my eyes are giving me when I look at organic apples at H.E.B., for example, at 2.49/lb vs. 'regular' apples at .99 cents/lb. When you get to the register, yep, they ring up at 2.49/lb. Or maybe in their world that isn't 'that much more expensive', but to folks of limited means, YES, it IS.

Quote "Julia apparently hasn't seen the same websites, magazine and newspaper articles, and TV segments that I have".

Thank you for explaining to me what I have or have not seen!! Can you give me other insights to things I may or may not know? I'd appreciate the help.

No. I don't have a problem with natural hybrids only the GMO ones. There is an enormous difference between crossing two parent plants to make an improved offspring and splicing all sorts of genes into a seed.

http://www.oaklandinstitute.org/voic...nsantoVOrganic

It's kind of ironic in your efforts to make us see ourselves you didn't spend much time actually listening to what we were saying. You just had yourself a big old time making a caricature of who you thought we were. I didn't see myself or anyone else here in your snarky monologue. Several of us have mentioned we are on very tight budgets. I am below poverty level myself. So I am no Marie Antoinette. Neither is Ladycat who also mentioned she is financially strapped. So are several others here. You can eat well on little it just takes more time and creativity and educating yourself in cooking.

Interestingly enough those who put down the masses the most as ignorant or incompetant or lazy bums who mooch off the rest of us for their junk food and cokes are those who are against the whole organic movement in the first place! I happen to believe that education and positive thinking can move mountains. I am not posting this stuff in a fit of self righteous zeal I am posting it to open people's eyes to the possibilities.

[QUOTE=Patt;4514344]


That is pie in the sky thinking. (My true thoughs would probably get me banned) They are only telling part of the story. Where is a list of their organic inputs and quantities thereof? And the 28-32 % reduction of energy inputs? Hand labor by people? Or use of animals to work the crop?

I have seen first hand many practices promoted by the academic world that only work if one throws an unlimited amount of money at them.

The article that this link brings up
is based on junk science. Remember ClimateGate? No one knows for sure what weather patterns will be like more than 7 days into the future. Anything beyond that is supposition and conjecture.

Just wanted to comment that I find it interesting in this HT demographic that things have shifted in the last few months. THere was a thread in winter(maybe someone dug that up?) where I was being flogged for accusing organic/CSA food of being "expensive" for the common man and that was just disingenuous to evangelize organic while ignoring the expense(and how expense affects availability and use). Looks like more people are getting it, Julia gave a great example with the milk. Same here, we have local "corporate" milk, no hormones no BGH, and it's at least half the cost of organic--and I'm willing to bet the actual nutrition isn't all that different neither.

I all about growing organic in my own garden, including NO poisons or manufactured fertilizer in a bag etc(even labeled organic). I cook from scratch, and help teach others to do so too. It's not like I'm eating McDOnalds every day because it's cheap, nor do I feel like I'm destoying my health when I eat the occasional McChicken sandwich.

I think the more precise identity of America's health problem is the lifestyle--lazy, sedentary, and of course the diet is bad BECAUSE OF that lazy mindset. You can fill those people with organic fresh produce and meat at the same amounts they are used to eating(I might add...), and they will still be fat and in bad health. There are kids growing up with rickets today because they don't get the Vit D--from milk because they drink soda or gobs of water even(cuz dairy BAD!!!) or sunshine cuz they don't play outside(sun causes cancer, and a pedophile lives across the street).

SO yeah, it's good to educate oneself on good nutrition and health. I find more change comes from focusing on the positive--like good food makes you feel better and enables you to do quality activity, and scratch cooked food is absolutely delicious, and eating beautiful meals together with family and friends is a precious gift. Although I think it's valuable to pinpoint a cause of a problem to solve it, hammering people(who weren't concerned about there being a problem...) on being fat and unhealthy just chases them to their twinkies and Mountain Dew. Provide that quality experience in your own little corner and good spreads. Guilt doesn't change people, love does. Kinda like that story about not hiding your light under a bushel(bush? basket?).

It all goes back to what it means to be alive. The more alive you are the MORE COWBELL you want to feed your fever. Sermon over, go and do likewise

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[QUOTE=oneokie;4514399]Yes climate gate. Mover numbers around to make the outcome one way and one way only, forgetting all the other variables that also play into the picture. And now close to a 10 year old study at that with gobs of money thrown their direction. Just don't work in todays world in the USA. After all we are or should be talking about the USA not a 3rd world spot on the map.

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