A cheap and reliable food supply

Hmmm let's see on the one hand you admit that the 25% in waste is due to cheap food and yet on the other you assume skyrocketing prices if we produce 25% less food. No what will happen is prices will bump up some and then level out. People will waste less because food is now too expensive to waste and we will wind up with about the same amount available as we had in the first place. People eating real food not processed junk also eat way less because they are actually getting some nutritional value out fo their food.


If we converted over to all organic growing then it would no longer be a niche market and prices would have to come down to a more realistic level.

For the sake of debate, in one of the threads there is a post that cites USDA figures that says that $142 Billion is allocated for food stamps. I do not think that USDA will readily increase that part of their budget by 25%.

What do you see as the leveled out increase in food prices?

Your way to control/reduce waste of food is to increase the price of same????
Got a scenario of how that will play out?

People are going to have to change their lifestyles before junk food goes out of style. Not going to happen in the foreseeabe future, IMO.

Something else to give thought to. Urban sprawl has taken a very large number of acres out of production. Developers like level to somewhat level land to build their subdivisions. That is not going to change, so the number of tillable acres will continue to diminish. Fewer acres equates to more intensive food production methods and organic does not fit.

People still want food as a convenience, more and more foods are coming prepared just heat them up in the microwave, that is where it is at, I bought some pot pies a few days ago and 3 minutes in the microwave versus 30 in oven. No Thank You.
Even bought some TV Dinners that were of smaller proportions and were 99 cents. Can't raise food that cheap and have a meal like that.
And added some cut up hot dogs to mac and cheese made a pretty dern cheap meal for 3 days when the dogs were on sale for 99 cents.
Cheap is where it is at especially in this time of high unemployment, and low pay or people on unemployment.
They have to find many ways to cut back on the cost of food and that is buying food at a low price. I am going to buy some more of those small TV Dinners, and some more of those cheap hot dogs.
I am off to the store right now to stock up on "Cheap Food" Milk at 2.45 a gal too sure as heck not this so called Organic milk for over 6 bucks a gal. that market niche will get smaller and smaller as the economy gets worse in the coming months and years.
And people like myself on SS where no cost of living raise this last year, or the next but our other costs keep going up. We must find food at the lowest possible price.
You have to think "Outside of The Box" on things like this now, as 300+ million now in the USA can't go back to the 40's anymore. Too many in this country that will starve if we did. One must look at the Big Picture now not just what is happening in a small local area.

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Absolutely, people don't waste things that cost them a lot. Just look back at when gas prices shot up to $4 a gallon, people figured out they didn't need to run into town 4 times a day they learned to consolidate trips and cut back on unecessary travel. Plenty of people kept doing that even when the gas prices dropped back by half. If milk and bread suddenly cost more well then you start thinking about how much do we need and how much will we actually eat and we can't afford to throw out a half a gallon because it went past it's date. It's just simple reality.

As far as food stamps go they need to be dropped entirely. If we must subsidise food then give vouchers for specific things: staples, fresh fruits and vegetables, etc. The only functional food program in my opinion is WIC.

I hestitate to respond honestly, but I will try once. Organic is growing at 20% per year. That has not been impacted at all by the economy.

People who eat like you cost all of us tons of money every year because guess what: your food has no nutritional value, way too much fat, sugar and salt in it and it is killing you. All I can say is I hope you have no children or grandchildren you are feeding that crap too because it is NOT food!

At some point people need to wake up and figure out that cheapo quickie pot pie cost them several hundred thousand dollars for their high blood pressure treatment and their heart disease and their diabetes. Sigh.....

You're right, when things cost more, people will become more frugal and less wasteful.

Our grandparents didn't have as many "things" as we have today, and they didn't have a lot of fancy convenience foods, but they took pride in what they had, took care of it, and stretched their pennies.

Maybe if food prices went up, scratch cooking would be back in vogue and people would be less wasteful. The basic ingredients cost less, so grocery costs would even out in the end.

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So, when's your funeral scheduled?

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

No? Well than maybe we have too many people.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

Some of the people posting reall y don't know much of what is happening in the real world. Some don't know what it means not to have money to buy food. Some have never been really hungry. Some have never given a thought about those living in large apartment buildings where they see the sun only minutes a day. Or about those living in the inner cities who feel lucky to have a roof over their heads.

I can tell you from experience you will change your mind if you ever have to live through one of these experiences.

If you are homeless you don't buy organic products to prepare a well balanced meal. When you don't even have a stove to cook on the idea of a healthy diet isn't that important.

If you lost your job and are trying to live on unemployment while feeding a family the quality of the product will take a back seat.

If you are retired on SS you probably won't be looking through the organic section.

The studies I have seen say there is not any difference in the nutritional value of organic grown and chemical grown. Just a difference in price mainly for those who can afford the organic. It is niche market and some are already finding that out. It isn't unusual to go to the store and see the organic marked down because it set on the shelves so long.

Patt is right. There may be a cheap food supply in this country, but it's not actually cheap. It's costing billions of unnecessary dollars in health costs for preventable illnesses and conditions.

But I had to quote the 99¢ TV dinners. When I see stuff like that I chuckle. With my super- and extreme- couponing, I fix a meal of whole grains, veggies, and all the good stuff, at least part of it organic, at a cost of $1 or less per person per meal. And the taste is 10 times better than any old TV dinner.

Here's an interesting thread from a few months ago to take a look at:

$1.00 Meals

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I do.

BTDT.

BTDT.

BTDT.

BTDT.

BTDT, except no unemployment.

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So would I! If there is no money in farming, do farms increase or do they decrease? If the evil old government gives money to farmers when the price for their crop drops way below the average cost to produce it, doesn't that help save farms/farmers?

If the 200 people that each farmer feeds want cheap food, how does he make a living? So far farmers have done it by labor saving machines and adoption of the most productive methods. Even with those advances, the hours are long and the profit small. So that is why they farm 3000 acres instead of the back 40.

Land that cannot produce a profit must be abandoned. Only the best can produce the yields needed to cover the costs associated with putting in a crop.

If just 10% of the farms stopped using chemical fertilizer, we'd run out of manure in about a day.

Not if you use sustainable farming methods that actually improve the soil instead of ruin it.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

To do ? A few fresh vegetables in season?

Really? We drive 60 miles one way to save that much per gallon. But we purchase 2-3 weeks supply of food at a time. The savings from the lower priced groceries more than pay for fuel and time to do that.
You said that the chicken was "harder" to sell than the goat milk.

Interesting response. Ever see or hear about the movie "Soylent Green"?

Ladycat, you have the experience. I have been through the same. When I was in those circumstances I wasn't worried about whether my food was organic or not. I was worried that I might not have food of any kind. It does make a difference.

No because it is those government subsidies causing farmers to lose money due to artificially low prices! My next topic will be disinformation.....

There are lots of people out there on very limited incomes who are eating very well just like Ladycat! It is possible.

HUH? Artificially low prices? My thinking is that it is deliberate. When the ignorant masses are fat and happy, they are able to do other things. Like stimulate the economy.

Are you ready for all food stuffs to be put under the umbrella of the Commerce Clause?

Off to google the commerce clause....

Googled it, looks like a very vague clause that has been abused. So what do you see that doing to food?