A cheap and reliable food supply

And what about people who can't afford healthcare and need it? Curse this homestead job for that.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

my understanding is vague, but i think that much of the subsidies go to meat, dairy, and grains that are fed to meat. ie, i think soybeans and corn are more heavily subsidized than wheat, and very little of those soybeans and corn get's eaten directly by consumers, but is instead eaten by cattle (or pigs, chickens, etc.) and the dairy industry is more heavily subsidized than other parts of agriculture to i think.

i don't think fruit or veggies get much subsidy either.

i don't know if the processing industry (ie, campbells soup, tv dinners, etc) gets much subsidy or not. i don't think they get much directly from the USDA, tho i could be wrong. however, there may be some other gov't entity that gives them something too.

so my point is, i think the current system already subsidizes what you call "nutrient dense meat, dairy".

--sgl

My point was that meat and dairy costs more than grain based, processed foods. People would eat more meat, dairy, fruits and vegetables if they were more comparably priced to grain products. To be honest, I'm not sure how meat and dairy are directly subsidized. I do know that those animals are fed grain in amounts that are completely unnecessary.

If there were no subsidies, farmers would be forced to feed cattle GRASS and much less grain, because it would cost too much. Oh the horror. Can you imagine?! The meat/milk from grass fed animals is MUCH healthier. Lower in saturated fats, higher in omega-3. The manure from grass fed cattle is seasonally utilized up by the land rather than being dumped into manure lagoons that pollute. Another plus would be that grass fed cattle do not produce the unnatural amount of methane (that contributes to climate change) that grain fed cattle do. Even pigs and chickens can get a good portion of their diet from grass/forage.

DISCLAIMER: I do think feeding animals enough grain for proper maintenance is fine. I feed my cattle small amounts to maintain condition.

grass fed cattle are more damaging as far as global warming is concerned.
http://bites.ksu.edu/news/140769/10/...rass-fed-study

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Dairy farmers around here feed little or no grain. They are fed corn silage and hay silage. Their dry corn is 100% for cash crop, not feed.

Martin

That's bull crap. (pun intended) The environmental repercussions of feedlots are well-known.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

I wouldn't doubt that a bit. Anything that is all in one place or congregated will have a less of a impact then the same amount spread over 100's of acres.
Just like a train can haul many cars and do far less polluting then if those cars were traveling by themselves. Or a airplane all those people in alone spot even though the jet burns all sorts of fuel it still does not equal that if all those people would be driving.
And now with many of those farms going to manure digesters to capture the methane and burn that for electricity they have Way Less carbon footprint.
Like that huge dairy in Indiana that milks 35,000 Cows A DAY they digest and reuse the electricity to fuel that barn and others as well. Way Less Carbon footprint that if these cows were just out pooing all over the acreage.
Some jus see the few bad farms and dwell on them when they are so many that are going green and making a huge step forward in less polluting practices.

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

See My Pictures at
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0903/arabianknight/

With the exception of a few Southern states, grass fed beef is a myth. Pasturing in northern states is only possible for 6 months after which an alternative food must be fed. If that is hay, then nearly an equal amount of hay and pasture acreage must be maintained. Typical old 80-acre Wisconsin dairy farm: 20 acres corn, 20 acres grain, 20 acres pasture, 20 acres hay.

Martin

Incorrect. I highly doubt if EPA has ever sued a small grass-based farm with 100 cows on 50 acres. But they have indeed sued feedlots. The feedlot has loads of manure. What do they do with it? It has to be disposed of - sometimes as toxic waste. What happens to the manure from the cows on pasture? It goes back into the ground.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

That was a Peer Reviewed paper based on research conducted outside the USA. I would hardly call that research "bull crap" unless we can agree that the Rodale Organic research was also "bovine feces".

Jim

You will find that the storage and disposal of animal manures are now closely regulated in many states. When so, any cattle operation bigger than a certain number must have an approved storage facility to handle, in many cases, at least 4 months accumulation. That is then spread only at designated times and only on soil suitable of handling it. Those storage facilities are sealed pits, usually concrete, where the manure is liquified. It is then spread from tank spreaders or tank trucks. In Wisconsin, there are no exceptions no matter how big the operation is. It gets back into the ground. I know of several local dairy farms that don't have enough land of their own to spread it on so they actually rent additional land just for that purpose.

Martin

And what about small operations? The amount of manure produced is very easily re-accepted.

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I'm an environmentalist, left wing, Ron Paul loving Prius driver with a farm. If you have a problem with that, kindly go take a leap.

Again, in this state it must be stored and applied only at certain approved times even for small operations. That is closely controlled by the WI DNR and has been in effect since 2002. To wit, "All cropland and livestock operations in Wisconsin, regardless of size, must abide by the agricultural performance standards and management prohibitions." There are no exceptions. In addition to the basic laws, any cattle operation over 1,000 head must apply for a special permit and meet stringent conditions before it is granted. We've been in this business a long time and definitely know what to do with manure!

Martin

Martin is correct. There is a large hog facility near my farm. They must spread their sludge to prevent the holding area from overflowing. This is benificial to nearby farms like mine for a cheap source of fertilizer. This whole procedure is regulated on how much and how often it can be spread.

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* I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one. .*-