Would like to buy neighbors property, need advice.
 

There's a elderly lady that lives across the road from me. She lives by herself and we are always doing things for her. Even tho she has a daughter who lives only about 5 miles from her, neither her daughter or grandchildren come over to mow or check up on her very much at all. Usually the only time you see them is if they need money.

Anywho, I've thought about making a deal with the lady to purchase her house and 1 acre of land from her and let her to continue to live their till she has to enter a rest home, etc. We would do the yard work and keep the house up. All she would have to do is buy her own utilities and food.

Hopefully, she would sell to us at a reduced price for letting her live their and the upkeep of the place. Do any of you all know what I would have to do legally to achieve all this? Hoping to aquire this place to keep unwanted neighbors away. It's also a better house then mine.

I just came out & asked my neighbor to let me know first "IF" she ever wanted to sell out. We are friends and I am always there if she ever needs anything, but she loves to travel and I've wondered if one day she just might find a better place to live. It would save her the trouble and the money of hiring a real estate agent and it would make me really happy to have more property.

If you are already making her life easier, she may welcome the suggestion.

I'm almost sure you should involve her kids in this deal or they will enter it with lawyers ablazin' later on anyway. Forget reduced price- make it a fair one, but maybe paid over time (with fair rent deducted) so the kids don't take the money then leave her with nothing to pay rent with.

Is she fully mentally competent? If so do what she wants. If not get the kids involved despite their lack of concern for her welfare.

if she is mentally competent right now, talk to her. a contract can be drawn up, and a no-contest one at that, leaving the kids out of it issue. some ppl, no matter how lousy of kids, seem to feel they must give it all to them no matter what. or they simply don't realize or think about another way to deal with their property.

bring up that you've always like her place, and it'd be something you'd like to have someday. i'd be SURE to stress that she is in no way selling out and having to leave her home.

I think logistically you could simply conduct the sale as normal and also enter into a lease agreement at the same time. In order for a lease to be legally binding, I believe some amount of money must be exchanged. So you could buy her home and then lease it back to her for $1 / month.

Don't forget to factor in the property taxes. Also speak with an accountant. There are lots of ways you can use a rental property as a tax shelter. And, since it will be viewed as an "investment" you will be able to depreciate the property -- which could shield a large portion of your income from taxes.

If you can work out an agreement sounds like a good deal for all involved. If she is competent and she sells you the house via contract I don't see how her kids could say anything about it.

Yep, I would say she mentally competent. Even tho she's somewhat of a backwoods native indian lady who doesn't quit understand what your talking about unless you can talk to her with the Cherokee language. Sometimes when I talk to her I wonder if she ever understood what I was talking about. But I've seen her carry on a long conversation with someone who knows the Cherokee language as if she has no problem.

Your opinion of her compentacy
 

You have your answer in your above statement of your opinion of her. DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH BUYING THIS LADYS PROPERTY. It would be null and void and you will lose when carried to court by her children. Simple she did not understand and you will look like a crook and the judge will rule against you.
If you want to purchase the property, approche the children and her, hire a lawyer up front and just pay for it. Chance is the kids already have a part ownership of the property if their father was co owner and died the kids would legally have a part ownership in the estate even if never divided. At least here they would inherit a childs part of his half.
You are going off into a can of worms that can turn into a swamp full of alligators in a heartbeat.

Indian land is held in trust for the Indians by the BIA. She could sell it but it would have to go through the proper channels and would sell for appraised value.

This may be private land, and not indian trust land. Is there any law there barring indians from owning private land?

No law that I know of saying they can't own land. Just going by the fact that she prefers to speak Cherokee I would bet it is trust land. There is no property taxes paid on trust land so if you had that option would you own it privately?

A private house is not the same as reservation land. If it's reservation land, she may not own it at all. Or if the tribe bought it for her.......
You could buy the house now and give her a life lease. You would pay a fair agreed price minus the value of the life lease. But children could always later cause problems if they do not agree even if they have no rights- if they receive a share of the sale price now, that may end their disagreement.
Extra care is needed to make sure you do not even appear to be taking advantage of her, even if it is something that is to her advantage as it stands now.
But this whole deal would depend on her trust of you too. She simply may not want to let go of control over her life. It could be more trouble than it's worth if anything goes wrong.

An unmarried female cousin of my mother's did something like this but it was some years ago and I don't remember the exact details, if I ever knew them, as what information I had was from my mother. A land contract of some kind was written up that established the price of the land, what the payments would be, that the original owner had the right to occupy the house for as long as she lived or was able to live independently but that at her death/ necessary relocation the premises would then be included in the purchase.

Another ranching couple did the same thing with the state of Montana. They had a historic site on the ranch that the Montana historical society wanted and the state bought the ranch, subject to their right to live there for as long as they chose to do so.

Obviously, it can be done ... I suspect you'd need an attorney that specialized in real estate law to make sure there were no loopholes.

As far as Native American issues regarding land purchases, the only time this is an issue in Montana is land that has been transferred from ownership by the reservation/agency to individual ownership but is still within the reservation. These acreages, although owned by an individual or family, can be sold under some circumstances but my understanding is that it must first be offered to the reservation/ tribal council and if purchased by the "tribe" would go back into the tribal land. I am not sure of the exact issues here and it could well vary from one tribe or reservation to another. Otherwise, as far as I am aware, any land owned by a Native American that is not oiginally tribal/ reservation land is subject to the same laws as property owned by anyone.

Contact an Atty to draw up a Contract for a Legally Recorded Purchase, possibly granting her a "Life Estate,' also barring ability to transfer, mortgage, or lease the premises. I really think you need to go over this with an Atty! Worth looking into and could resolve some concerns.

SFM in KY just described the State of Montana legally owning a property, and that couple being granted a type of "Life Estate" as a contingency of the purchase.

What Lorichristie said. This is not that complicated to do. The value of the property and the life estate each have value, so it should result in a lower up front price. However, you want to make sure she has independent legal advice, and an interpreter.

I don't know why people are jumping to the conclusion that it is reservation land simply because she speaks Cherokee. All the same, you obviously have to check to see if she has title.

Sounds to me like you should find someone who speaks both Cherokee and English and can translate for you, so you don't have to worry about it coming back at you later. Then you can get the necessary facts around whether the land is privately owned, whether the children have any legal interest, and so on -- assuming that she's interested in your proposition.

Kathleen

Talk to her. You can find someone that speaks Cherokee and make sure that they explain it to her and have an atty to seal the deal and have him their to witness you telling her with a Cherokee interpreter what you want to do and have him draw the papers from that. It is no difference what language she speaks the interpreter can make it clear.

May be resticted Indian allotment. Check with the County Clerks office. They have that information, or know where it is recorded. If it is restricted, the lady would have to get permission from BIA to sell. That is not an easy thing to get done.

Please remember, if the Woman goes into a home and has no money to pay for her care, the Goverment can go back a certian number of years and take her property for payment of the old folks home. Check into this, I'm just learning now.

They only ask if she exchanged it for less than fair market value. Then they don't actually take the property from the current owner, they look to see where the proceeds of the sale went. If the property is exchanged for less than fair market value, they may delay paying for nursing home bills for a number of months, thereby making the family pay for it. Also, in TN, when someone passes away, the state must clear the estate from any medicaid liability before it can be closed.

The very first thing to do is to check with the County Clerk to find out about the "history" of the land, i.e. reservation, private ownership with contingency clauses, etc. Next, get an up-to-date assessment of the land. You need this to varify what you will be paying for it will be a fair market value.

The next think you "definately" need to do is get a Cherokee ... yes, a Cherokee ... who can speak both her language and yours. All conversations about purchasing that property needs to have at least 4 people there, i.e. the lady you speak of, the Cherokee interpreter, the Lawyer and yourself. (It would be good if she, too, had her own lawyer; but may not be neccessary.) During these communications you need to find out about her husband's will, i.e. did he leave part of the land to their children. (If so, they will need to be contacted, which may or may not blow the deal for you.)

If it turns out the land is available for purchase by someone outside the Cherokee Nation and the fair market value has been acknowledged, then you might need an accountant (maybe the lawyers can do it) who could establish what you would be doing for the lady's care in "monetary" terms that can be associated with what is being paid for the land at the time of sale.

Yes, it is rather complicated; but if you don't cover all your basis, they could easily come back to haunt you.

they are called lifetime leases..you buy but give her a lifetime lease free of charge but just as any other leases she would have to do the utility payments,etc.

you would also have to have insurance on the home and pay 2nd home taxes on it...which are higher than homestead taxes at least in Michigan they are

I'd run!1 I did exactly this a few years ago--only the old lady herself proposed it. So, I bought it, 20 acres and house, with the understanding that she could live there her lifetime. Nine years, I paid taxes, etc, then she took me to court, saying she didnt know what she was doing. She knew exactly what she was doing, keeping herself on state aid--then suing me just before the 10 years were up, which would have kept her from doing this. Nine years and eight months after I bought it, the judge ruled in her favor--off the record, he said-so it couldnt be appealed!!

I approached the neighbor's son after the father's funeral. Son lives on the west coast and isn't here often. I told him that I knew this was not the time to say but I wanted him to know. Told I would like to know when the house came up for sale. 10 years later he called me. They had taken a reverse mortgage on the house to pay her expenses and it was gone, so she needed to move into a nursing home so public aid would take over. Details were settled over the phone and papers were signed when he flew in to take care of it. Worked for both of us. He had an easy sell with no waiting and I got the piece of ground that I wanted.

Kathie

She probably already has her daughter lined up to inherit this land regardless of how you see this mother/daughter relationship. You might want to find and emphasize the advantages that would benefit her daughter on an early sale now.

I have to LOL. About 20 years ago, there was a story about a French couple that went here. The lady was 85 years old, she lived in the house until she was 105 years old, when she died in the home. Legally I have no clue, but she may live into her 100's. Willing to go there?

Something to be carefull about is nursing home claims. Around here is you go into a government run nursing home the home gets to claim you assets, including property sold within the 6 years before moving into the nursing home. If the elderly person only makes it five years and 11 months the nursing home can legally try to go after the former property.

Would rather have the old lady for a neighbor then what might move in next if I don't buy it. Her daughter is somewhat of a alcoholic and a gambler and always has a different boyfriend when you see her. None of her kids have the same daddy. So I would hate for her to take over the place and move in.

To answer some questions from up above about previous land ownership. The land at one time was actually our family's land. The white government moved my cherokee ancestors out to this area and around the early 1900's the Dawes commission act took place and all this land was divided up amongst the Cherokees. On this side of the road was my Grandpa's alloted land which I still live on (2 acres). On the other side of the road (where the old lady's house sits) was alloted land that my Grandpa's brother was givin. My Grandpa's brother married but never had children. After he died his widower sold the land. When a Cherokee sells their land they have to remove the restrictions on the land, and those restrictions can never be placed back on the land regardless of who owns it next.

Well of all this alloted land that my Grandpa's brother once owned on the other side of the road, this old lady lives on 1 acre with a indian government built house on it. It was built around 1994 and her and her husband moved in. He died about a year after moving in and she has lived their as a widow ever since. Her payment is only about $125 a month and she only likes about 1 or 2 more year worth of payments. She gets a SS check and receives food commotities monthly. That's her only income. I usually give her free veggies out of the garden when she wants some.

If I am able to buy her property, I would like place the sale money in some kind of a retirement account for her. Hopefully this would keep her daughters hands off the money and would give the lady extra money to live off of monthly. Then hopefully, if she has to go into a nursing home then maybe they will use her retirement account to help pay for her care.

She will be charged a small rental fee while living in the house and still have to pay for her own utilities.

.............If , she has too enter a nursing home the state of Ok. will probably sell her home and land too offset the cost of her care ! You'd better consumate a sale prior too her entering a nursing home . Set it up so the sale proceeds are in some kind of account the daughter can't access . There are time factors involved here such that the St. of Ok. can go back say maybe 5 years and reclaim the property IF the daughter had transferred the title into her name prior too the Ladys entering a nursing home . You need too seek the advice of an attorney before you invest in this property ! , fordy

I remembered reading about a similar agreement that was entered into between a lawyer and Jeanne Calment, who died at the age of 122.

"She also outlived Andre-Francois Raffray, a lawyer who, 32 years ago, when she was merely 90, bought the apartment she used to live in on a contingency contract. He would pay her 2,500 francs (now about $400) a month until she died, and then the apartment would become his.

Raffray died a year ago at 77, after paying Calment more than $180,000, better than double the apartment's market value. His family was still paying when she died."

http://www.supercentenarian.com/olde...e-calment.html

A similar deal almost happened to a friend of mine.

He was set to sign a deal on a small family farm at $350 a month until she died. The woman that owned it could have lived in the home, but he would have covered all improvement expenses and taxes.

She was in poor health at the time, and wasn't expected to live that much longer. She is still alive 31 years later!!!

I don't know all the numbers...but he would have really overpaid for that land...and the house needs to be dozed over, literally.

I would just make her an offer to buy it outright, go see lawyer about drawing up the contracts. Buy it and lease it back to her at whatever terms make sense.

I would not even bring up the subject of her kids btw, or say anything that could be considered as disparaging about their caring for her or not being deserving.

This was the couple I was talking about. Thanks, could not remember their names.