A Way To Get Land

WOW a lot of negative responses. I guess the glass is half empty for those.
I dont see how most of your county's can survive with those ridiculous rules.
In my county :
#1. you get a clean FREE CLEAR title. No leins. all the leins have to be cleaned up for the county to be able to sell them.

#2. Not all these homes are trashed. I have seen many in excellent shape.

#3 No one can ever come pay old taxes and kick you out. Cant happen. The previous owner is already 3 years behind plus interest in taxes. The county isnt about to play any more games with them.

#4 The homes are auctioned, you dont pay the back taxes, thats way too much. I have never seen the homes ever go for more than owed taxes, not even close. They go for pennies on the assesed value. Finding some owner to buy the house for back taxes usually would end up costing much more than you would have payed at an auction. but if its a property you really want then go for it. right now is the best time because even the investers are not wanting to invest.

#5 You dont walk in to the sale stupid. You get a sheet with addresses and code violations(usually on city homes) weeks in advance. they have a preview night were they go through every home and tell you all the details with pictures like a movie. They tell it like it is. They dont sugar coat the homes.

I have picked up a beautiful $50,000 home for $4200. New roof, sided and in excellent shape. Full basement. just to flip. I wouldnt do any flipping in this market but its worth checking them out. currently there is a 27acre parcel with a tiny house new roof in excellent shape that was abandoned on our auction, that is next weekend. it is adorable. The land is hidden and the house set back. When you go online you can see the previous owner, where he lives and all the info on every property, current taxes, school district etc.

There is no such thing as a FREE CLEAR title. This is especially so when you are dealing with a state and a tax deed. The tax lien auction is the ONLY event that can possibly interfere with the chain of title that passes down from the first owner.

If you pass the property on to the next "owner" you simply become a part of the fraud. Of course if you have no scruples then you must proceed for the most profit.

Palani does not say where she lives but it's apparent she does not live in either New York or Virginia, where property is confiscated and sold to pay the back taxes. If it is sold for more than the taxes owing the former owner does not get that monetary difference. Also palani is wrong that this is fraud. It's LEGAL! Ha ha. Legal makes it okay. Might is right, right?
Of course, if the taxes weren't so high, the people could have paid them and then their land wouldn't have been snatched and sold. These sales are very good deals for the buyers but not good for the land owners who for usually very valid reasons, simply could not muster up the money to pay the taxes.

To my knowledge all states seize property for taxes presumed. Frequently this occurs without due process of law but rather is done by notice instead.


The fraud comes when selling something that is not yours. The state does not own the property. They might own some debt that has been attached to the property but do not have any right at all to sell something that they have never owned. It is the same as me selling you the Brooklyn Bridge. Legally I can give anyone a quit claim deed to the Bridge stating I am selling whatever interest I might have in it while the buyer is under the presumption that I actually have any interest. I might be permitted to do this by law but that makes it no less fraud.

The system becomes even more fraudulent when you examine exactly how those property taxes attach to property. The act of recording the sale and registering the new owner causes the county recorder to affix a stamp that the property is enrolled for taxation. You record a property deed to prevent another from stepping in to claim they own the property. The deed is registered to a trust which then manages the property for you and the taxes are considered the payment to the trust for managing your property (on the strong presumption that you are not capable of managing your own property).

Had you not recorded the property when you bought it there would be no property tax owed because you would be responsible for protecting your own land.

The fraud on the part of the state is that they do not bother to explain this in detail to the new owner. Why would they? No one in their right mind would volunteer into this system. If you get yourself involved in any tax lien auctions then you are participating in this fraudulent scheme and are only passing a quit claim deed to the next "owner" when you sell the property.

palani, (thats a type of bread isnt it) every state is different in how they pay for schools and roads and such. In NY, they unfortunately pose it on land and home owners. Its common knowledge to the home owner, you dont pay your taxes, then someone has to. It is not a surprise. The teachers and road crews must be paid (and we have tons of snow to move here). They gave all these people 4 years in this tax auction. And I know many of the people who let the taxes slide, most are just buying pizza's, beer and cigarettes. Most their taxes were only 300 - 700 a year. I can collect cans and pay that. And frankly there are lots of jobs and money here. And if someone dont take over the taxes on that home my taxes will go up to compensate. why do you think we are in a recession? The mortgage lein holders will be responsible for taxes on those homes. That is why they need to ditch them ASAP.

I do wish they would change this, otherwise it leads us to an "only rich own land" society. I know other states mandate each person pays a certain amount for state and school taxes. I wish we would go that route as we pay for all the lazy folks. It isnt fair. I cant rent my land for what I pay in taxes on it. I believe vacant land should be assessed according to what we can rent it for.

You might be thinking of panini ... a way of grilling sandwiches.

In India palani is some sort of a god. In Hawaii palani is the status of a freeman. These two conditions might be considered to be synonymous.



Property taxes are avoidable. Simply do not hire the services of the state to protect your property. New York is one of the original colonies so spend some time at the courthouse to search back for some original grant of land. This original grant is a contract that is enforceable after even 400 years IFF (BIG IF) there is no intervening tax lien auction. The tax lien auction breaks the original contract and assigns the property to someone who doesn't fit in the original agreement. Even a bank foreclosure does not break the chain to the original grant or patent.

If you are lucky enough to have a property that can be traced back to the original owner then you HONORABLY cancel any contracts you might have inadvertently engaged in (with the State) and start protecting your own land. MOST PROBABLY THE ENTITY YOU ARE GOING TO PROTECT IT FROM IS THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

People have done this. To do it you might have to be viewed as more than a little peculiar but it surely beats the alternative. A lot of people are going to find their properties sold for back taxes and the new "owners" are going to find themselves in the same condition in several years.

As to the argument that "we MUST pay our servants".... when you find you can no longer afford a servant you make do by doing it yourself. You owe these servants no duty UNLESS you use their services.

Palani, all the artesian well of verbiage you are spouting is sort of interesting but my land is in danger of confiscation for back taxes right now. I am looking for a greenback poultice for the monetary wounds. If I tried any of your arguments, I would lose my land for sure!
Perhaps before you publish information on an open forum denigrating others, you might just look at their state, commonwealth and or specific county codes!
In any case, the topic here was how to get a good deal on land and a tax sale can be a way to do so with a clear or marketable title.
From my point of view, it is robbery but if the county confiscates my land and sells it, the buyer will not be commiting fraud unless, of course, he has an under the table deal with the attorney who handles the tax sales.
Some folks on here are genuinely looking for land. Another's misfortune may give them a good deal. Fraud does not enter into the equation because policy and procedure have been set up. Now, as to graft and other accusations you want to cook up, that might be accurate but not from the point of the would-be homesteader-buyer!
Peace! And why don't you reveal your domicile????? Are you in Lousiana?

What arguments? I don't believe I have promoted any. Sorry to hear of your problems but I am quite sure you are not alone and that you have engaged in no contract without your own consent.

Unless you have done a complete abstract search on your property there very well might be a tax lien auction in the history of your own property. If this is the case then, while I am still sorry to hear of your troubles, you have been occupying the land under colorable conditions.

If identifying fraud where others have not is denigrating them then you might have a case. All states seize private property and sell them at auction.

This point I am prepared to argue. Tax sales sell taxes rather than land. These tax deeds are then sold to buyers who believe what they are buying is land and instead are buying tax deficiencies. That is fraud. You need to do some reviewing on what land ownership is all about. Possession can and is frequently separated from ownership. Ownership can be argued generations later. Possession is not inheritable. Don't be building your dream homestead on anothers property.


Of course he is not committing fraud AS LONG AS HE REALIZED HE IS BUYING A DEBT RATHER THAN LAND AND MIGHT LATER RECEIVE POSSESSION (RATHER THAN OWNERSHIP).

I have seen tax lien auctions where the bidders are required to pay $100 for a bidding number and must apply for same 4 days in advance. Bidders were also disallowed if the county did not "approve" of them. I believe that is a shady arrangement.


My arguments are from a moral perspective. Morals are derived from religion. Those with no religion have few morals not induced by concern for reprisal from the law and/or loss of profit.

Profiting from anothers misfortune is not a good way to engage in any business.

I haven't inquired into your private affairs AND see no need for you to intrude in mine.

Peace....

palani can you please stop posting crazy things. go post in the um.. not sure were but you make us look bad. we live in the real world not some play word that you want it to be and never was just go

now on topic i haver never seen one sell in my county that was not trashed beyond redemption actually sell

Palini is saying (I think) beware of tax sales as you are only buying the tax lien? After 20 years in Real Estate in 7 different states, I've never seen a municipality advertise a tax lien for sale disguised as a real property sale.

Obviously you have to be reasonably knowledgeable about the process, or hire someone that is.

As far as the moral point- "Profiting from anothers misfortune is not a good way to engage in any business."

Unfortunately, in just about every aspect of life.....if there's a winner there has to be a loser.

Each state has different rules a related to tax liens. Here in Texas, tax lien auctions are legal; however, the current owner of the property has 2 years to pay the taxes plus penalties, interest and filing fees to get the property back. If they fail to do so after that time frame then the property is deeded to the lienholder with a clear title.

It is important to note that almost without fail if there is a mortgage company involved they will pay the taxes before it gets to this point or purchase the property at the tax lien auction to avoid losing 1st lien position.

If anyone is interested in tax lien auctions I would certainly urge you to do your homework for your area as there are a lot of rules that must be followed.

On a different note: Sunflower-n-Ks: Thanks for posting the free land link to properties in Kansas. Very interesting stuff - I just wish it was acreage and not a single residential lot. Any idea what the success of this program has been?

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DeeDee
Rockwall, TX

I sincerely offer my apologies if the concept of morals might interfere with your wealth building enterprises.

They scrupulously tell you that you are purchasing a tax lien. They are less scrupulous in telling you that the deed you will be given is equivalent to a quit claim as they have no interest in any properties other than the taxes paid them.

Every time I pass through Las Vegas (fairly infrequently these days) I say to myself "All those lights are paid for by the losers ... must be quite a few losers in Vegas".

As in any gambling most gamblers play to lose as much as to win. Tax liens are not much different from gambling except YOU get to represent the HOUSE (the rules are in your favor until the bluff is called properly).

I get the feeling you were duped or almost duped in one of these transactions (you haven't stated where you're from to determine whether you are in a tax deed state or not), but highly doubt it was the fault of the municipality. It sounds as tho you (like many others) were uninformed on the process.

VT does occasional tax seizure sales, but doesn't actively auction off tax liens. You can buy tax liens, but once you do, the seizure process with the town stops and you have to file yourself.

Tax seizure sales have clear title and if you win the auction, you own the property free and clear. This is usually 3-5 years after the property has been in tax default.

It's not easy to do here and they usually aren't that great of a deal.


This is an example of your morality?

I have never had any property seized for taxes. I do know of one who came close and another who saw his property seized despite responding to every notice of deficiency.

In law ownership can be separated from possession. In law there has never been a case where the land patent has not proven to be the superior title. A tax lien auction would appear to interrupt the chain of title with the original patent holder BUT IT DOES NOT. The owner is still the owner. Anyone wrongfully in possession of the property and who attempts to sell that possession does so fraudulently.... his intent is to make a pot of money and move on leaving the new owner to the problems of non-ownership. That is why law encourages CAVEAT EMPTOR ... the buyer is responsible for his own due diligence.

Right. Should I buy a genuine Rolex from a street vendor for a penny on the dollar I expect his warranty that he holds the property free and clear is as good as gold. Don't expect a lot of truth from a communist state.

Are you saying I shouldn't travel through Las Vegas or that I should not appreciate the lights paid for by the losers? Maybe I shouldn't appreciate a Broadway show because the cast display a sexual preference classified as "other"?

If I were buying property the first thing I would do would be to spend a couple of hours or a couple of days at the recorders office to make sure there are no "surprises" in the history of the abstract. Bank seizures are not a problem as they are owners by virtue of promises and mortgages. Tax liens auctions in the abstract indicate I could spend 30 years paying for the property and improving it just to find that someone else has a superior title. It is a risk I will not take no matter how cheap a property is.

This thread seems to have taken a drift. Yeah, we can talk about a world where taxes aren't going to be due but that is not this world, has it ever been? Anyways, I think the OP makes a great point in that trying to think outside the box can really go a long way to getting your place. If memory serves (and it doesn't always), Oregon is not a great State to do these sales as I believe the owner then has like 2 years to take back possession of the property but certainly worth checking out. Also these days with all the foreclosures, it would be a great time to buy something wonderful for a great price. Wasn't there a book (Buying Land Cheap or something like that??) that kind of was along these lines about how to be creative about finding your place.

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Idleness is leisure gone to seed

palini I dont mind paying taxes. I think we should spend it wisely and not be over taxed, true. Here, were I live, its not too bad. I do not at all mind paying taxes. When I see it going to defense of our freedom ( I like being able to freely worship Jesus), saving children from curable diseases, plowing my road so I can visit an elderly nieghbor. The best education is right here because of my tax payments. We live in America. Land of the FREE. Not sure were you are. So you get mad if you have to pay for the health of a poor person?? You want to see a child with polio? I was poor when my children were young. I put my self through college, but meanwhile we had no insurance. But thanks to a small earmark grant to a tiny resource center my babies recieved thier shots for free. Thank God for that. I in return pay to them now to help the next poor child.

I would give my right arm to help a blind person see. so to give $$ for that ability is cheap in comparison. I dont mind helping pay for health care. There will always be free loaders and flaws in any system. To abandon our system because of this would be foolish.

I don't believe you will find any suggestion in any of my posts that I advise NOT paying taxes. If they are owed and the owner has the ability to pay then of course they should be paid. If they are owed and the owner has NOT the ability to pay then the solution is INSOLVENCY rather than BANKRUPTCY. Anyone might become insolvent whereas it takes a special person to become irresponsible (bankrupt). In either choice I have given the option "IF THEY ARE OWED" because I believe you voluntarily agree to taxation of your property .... you just need to connect the dots to determine when you volunteered and why you volunteered. If these taxes are not owed then I see no reason to pay them. If they are owed then it is foolish to not pay them if you have the ability to do so.

As the topic of the thread is how to obtain cheap land my only suggestion is CAVEAT EMPTOR. Hopefully I have provided some background on land patents or land grants (think original 13 colonies here) that will make someone at least stop and think a little about what they are actually purchasing with a tax lien (and that is not property ... it is mere illusion). Debt is the feudal system of the future. Villeinage is the same whether past, present or future.

Gaining land through tax sales actually is the topic. It is not the land that is being purchased but rather the taxes. Too bad taxes don't produce corn.