Happy farmers, court ruling.

I have no big insight for this debate, but wanted to add a few things.

According to my college Environmental Sciences class, the terminator seed was alive and well. I took that class this past spring, so am assuming the information is relatively accurate.

Also according to the same class, an excess of fertilizers are creating 'dead zones' in bodies of water around the world. Chemical fertilizers were particularly mentioned. So do chemical fertilizers 'help' feed people? Sure. But they hurt people as well by killing off areas that were formerly fished.


I won't pretend the text was a very rounded view of any sort of subject, since it implied with the current population growth we will all run out of food in 50 years. But that won't matter because global warming and a lack of water will already have killed us all off. I don't share this view.

This is what is currently being taught to our 18 year olds in COLLEGE.

I will be happy to share the biblio information from the textbook if anyone wants it.

This sort of experiment is already being conducted on animals, and there are many pics of the 'glow in the dark' mice to back that up.

Before anyone jumps on me, I do consider myself a 'hobby farmer'. I grow a small garden just for us. I raise goats and chickens just for us. It certainly isn't a source of income, nor do I feel comfortable saying what works for farms who are reliant on crops to feed their families and pay their bills. But for me, the idea of GMOs is scary. It defeats the idea of label reading. How can something be considered 'organic' if the seed it grew from was impregnanted with dna that should never have been in the veggie in the first place? How can I, as a very small producer just trying to do what's best for my own family, protect my family and my garden from wandering pollen? And is it fair to subject those of us who don't want it with pollen on our crops, so we unaware grow things we wouldn't if we knew?

To me it's about choice. Let those who favor GMOs grow them. And let those who don't, and don't want to, be free of the same. Sadly, we don't get the same choices if we happen to be close neighbors.

It's a Brave New World out there.

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Silence is not Agreement

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Looks like we have some weeding to do. This forum has never been able to define what a homesteader is. It seem most are willing to accept the fact that people of all sorts can fit here. Some farmers, some hobby farmers, some suburban gardeners, people from all backgrounds and beliefs.
Some grow open-pollinated vegetables, some grow heritage varieties. Some are strictly organic, others are not. Some live in beautiful homes, some in broken down shacks. All are different. All are welcome.

It seems that some folks assume that the “standard” that they assign to the word homesteading has specific standards and rules. Those with a belief different from hers must be stifled or placed it another group not associated with homesteaders.

GrannyCarol, did ya ever think that there are real homesteaders that do not raise everything strictly organic or that they might adopt modern farming methods as a way to remain economically viable? Please accept that those that have beliefs different from you are not doing it just to “jerk your chain”, people do have different viewpoints.

I learn about different farming methods and integrate the ways that suit me. I will spend time explaining my viewpoints and will bring up thoughts that may run counter to others. I try to avoid “it feels like…” or “ I don’t like this company, so I will be mad at everything they do”, but I will learn about the processes I don’t understand.

Let's be real. How many people are growing their crops/garden next to the same variety crop that could be GMO? I would think it to be fairly uncommon. Then from those few, how many are saving their seeds? I would think this narrows it down to a tiny percentage. For those rare situations, there are ways to prevent "contamination".

Here the farmers plant to the road ditch also right on the property line . Have had drift from spray kill out garden and peach tree .

Anyone checked on the new strain of weed that roundup won't kill .Think it finely developed into a roundup ready weed ???

This is an article that I posted earlier discussing this.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...kY_wgD9GFT01G0

Well, corn is one example. If you live in IL or other areas where "field" corn is planted intensively, cross contamination to sweet corn does happen.

Here is a link discussing this, including isolation distances, etc.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/HO-98.pdf

This year's Baker Creek seed catalog posted a blurb stating they were having trouble finding uncontaminated corn (GMO) seed, even from their remote corn growers.
Here is a similar statement in an article about the CA branch of their company:

http://www.non-gmoreport.com/article...California.php

I think more people are saving seed than "a tiny percentage". Everything I read seems to point to an upsurge in interest in saving seed.

delete repeat post

Hummmmmmmm what happpened to farming to feed yourself and your family?? now every farm has to turn a profit other then taking care of one's own needs????????

I am still waiting for the definition of Farmer......

I don't know why people get hung up trying to define who or what a farmer is! Personally, I don't care if you are raising a garden or maybe raising a few laying hens or meat birds, or farm 4000 acres. If YOU feel your a farmer, then you are a farmer. I own a couple of small businesses but I am not Donald Trump. Does this mean I am not a "business man" just because my businesses are not as big as Trumps? The only title I care about right now is I would like to be a "profit making farmer" !!!

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IOWA

There are I believe 7 differet weeds that show resistance to glyphosate, with another 5 or so looking to go that way?

This is not a 'new weed', but it is selectively breeding weeds to adapt to the glyphosate.

What happens is that glyphosate is real good at killing weeds, and it is cheaper than combining a bunch of old-style herbicides to kill most weeds.

Glyphosate is really good at what it does, and cheaply.

So, farmers tend to rely on it year after year after year.

When this is done, any weed that has a tiny bit of natural resistance will grow a bit longer. Over time, a few of these individual weeds will get to seed, and their offspring will be resistant to glyphosate.

This is nothing new.

Many weeds quickly developed a resistance to ALS-type herbicides. Persuit worked _great_ to kill most weeds in soybeans around here for 2-3 years in the 1990's. Then - it did almost nothing. So maky weeds became resistant to it.

There is a new GMO/ weed spray combo, Liberty Link seeds and ?Ignite herbicide. It works well on most weeds, and will kill off glyphosate-tolerant weeds.

There will soon be dicomba seeds, so dicomba (Banvel, etc) weed killers can be sprayed on soybeans or older corn (currently you can use dicomba on small corn).

There is also work on 2,4,D resistant soybeans.

So, resistant weeds is a common thing, nothing new there.

It is caused because a successful, cheap, good product gets used too much. It is difficult to not use it tho, because it is cheap & works well.

A catch-22.

But, it's not that big of a deal.

These resistant weeds means we switch to something else, or use some of the old weed killers we used to use.

Herbicides have been in common use since the 1960's - started in the 1950's.

Really nothing new about it. Some of you seem to think this is all a new thing, and Roundup is the only weed killer ever used, no one has ever sprayed anytrhing until 5 years ago....

Most of these crops go to feed livestock, or to export markets. Not all of them, but most all.

Much of our food at the store comes from vegtable farms south of the USA, with some from California & Florida in season. The imported stuff has very little controls on it, but cabbage, carrots, peas, etc are truck garden crops, and have a very different style of farming, have different pest issues. Most of the stuff on your kitchen table has been sparyed many, many times for insects. While most of the feed for your livestock has been sprayed once or twice for weed control.

Food and feed is both raised by farmers; but there is a very different set of problems and crop types and pesticide issues between the 2.

Seems a lot of folk see a video on the web, and don't really know much about where their food comes from or what it is or how it is made.

Just believe the video, believe what you see on TV.

That's kinda sad.

--->Paul

Sounds like you had a very optimistic text there! I'm thinking I'm optimistic when I say ten years.

Rid ourselves of Evil Big Oil, Big Ag, Big Chemical, and all other Biggies that some people rail about.... and I give us exactly one growing season. Without the Biggies, the population crashes down to exactly the number of people who own land, have gardens for vegetables, fields for grains, livestock on pastures and woods, and lots of ammunition to keep the 99% of humans that don't have 'dirt under their nails' from devouring it.

I dislike the 'Biggies'... but I dislike the alternatives much worse... Yes, it'll be a lovely and peaceful and pleasant (if not harsh, dreary, and bone wrenching slavery scrounging to survive) once we 'get past' that nasty transition period whereby we get from A) where we are now, to C)where we want to be. Pesky old B, is the bugaboo... whereby most humans disappear.
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My definition of farmer is someone who feeds him or herself, their family, and at least 10 times more people than his/her own family. If you feed only your own family, you're a hobbyist.
If you don't make money (after all expenses, and I mean ALL), you're a hobbyist.
If you make quarterly payments to the IRS, because it's the Law for farmer/ranchers, you're probably a farmer.
If you spend more money on diesel for your tractors and equipment than you do for food, shelter, entertainment, and other luxuries, you're probably a farmer.
If you work seven days a week, from before sunup to till dark thirty your probably a farmer.
If some years you gross half a million dollars, and net less than 5,000, you're probably a farmer.
If you're in your mid 70's and still working the fields on a daily basis, because you can't find anyone else to do Manuel labor, you're probably a farmer.
If you're best pair of shoes are boots, and they have numerous forms of excrement on them every day, you're probably a farmer.
If you don't give names to your animals (except maybe your home milk cow), but instead give 'descriptions', ex. that brindle cow with the banana horn, or that speckled butt heifer, you're probably a farmer.
If your tractor cost more than your house, you're probably a farmer.
If you spend important holidays or life events in the hayfield, you're probably a farmer.
and on and on, yada yada yada....

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

I am afraid with definitons of farmer like that I can see why we have problems.

I would say if you make 100% of your income from farming or suppliment your farm income (still your main source of income) as needed with off the farm work then you are a farmer.

The difference here is the meaning of a Farmer, compared to a Hobby Farmer, which in the eyes of the IRS many on here are, unless you make 100% of your income off the land and animals.

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

See My Pictures at
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IF my neighbor grows GMO crop, it WILL contaminate MY non GMO crop. Anyone who grows the stuff should be required to contain it so it can't contaminate other crops.

GMO stuff is endangering open pollinated crops. Where are the activists on this subject? Why is no one doing anything to protect our lands from contamination?

Those "happy" farmers will soon become disgruntled farmers when they discover the increased cost, lower production, and lack of customers for GMO crops. The most recent example of lack of customers was when rice was rejected and returned to our shores because it had a little bit of GMO junk in it.

THIS is exactly what caused farmers to commit suicide in years past. By the time they discovered the error of GMO, it was too late and they were in so deep there was no escape.

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Genetically Altered Salmon Get Closer to the Table

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/bu.../26salmon.html
And whats wrong with this? Feed more people at a time seems like a neat idea to me.

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

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Oh great now we won't be able to eat salmon anymore....sigh....

Ok. What steps do you take to prevent your corn from contaiminating your neighbor's GMO corn?????

If pollen drift is considered a wrong, then if your neighbor's pollen is a problem to you; your pollen is also a problem to him.

Are you willing to follow your own requirements? If you get your wish, Monsanto or Pioneer can plant a seed corn field right next to your property, and _repquire_ you to prevent your corn pollen from contaminating their seed.

It would go both ways.

So - are you still game?

That's the deal - pollen drift is just a natural thing, so it is not regulated on any crop considered a regular, accepted crop in the USA.

--->Paul

Oh please! It's not a problem for your neighbor because they can't save their seed anyways! Monsanto would come and sue them if they did. So no harm to them. On the other hand if their pollen drifts into your corn and ruins your seed you lose because you can't save you seed anymore.

The big 4 seed companies lease out their seed production - just regular old farmers here & there grow seed soybeans for them, under contract.

So, it's not difficult to have a few 100 acres of soybean seed being produced next to any one of us.

Seed corn likewise is produced all around - it's a bit more obvious because of the detasseling, but there are several fields of seed corn, 1000's of acres, within 20 miles of me.

So sure, pollen drift very much affects GMO seed production.

There is no 'oh please' on this. It's a real life, real world, issue.

If you don't want your neighbor's pollen on your property, they won't want your pollen on their property.

Are you sure you want to walk that path?

It's something for a rational person to consider - both sides of the coin.

--->Paul