Happy farmers, court ruling.

You also keep forgetting every fact that anyone has ever presented to prove that you are wrong. Instead, you always come back with the same anti-farmer attitude. You appear to be one of those who keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Neither you or many others here have contributed a single word as to why GM alfalfa is wrong. In fact, there is so much misinformation here that it only proves that there is a lot more ignorance on this board than anyone would like to admit.

Martin

If a man trolls the Homesteading forum to push big agribusiness viewpoint, is it the same as a homesteader?

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~ Carol

Too funny! Explain to me exactly how I am anti-farmer? I just shared a link of a 3 generation family farm that has managed to actually hang on to their farm and make a good living by growing their wheat chemical free. I am very pro-farmer. I want to see dairy farms stay in business and one of the big ways smaller family dairy farms have been able to stay in business is by moving to organic milk production. This new GMO alfalfa threatens them.

So don't give me any crap about not caring about farmers!

"The letter says that the agency's conclusion that contamination of non-GMO alfalfa is highly unlikely to occur is "not supported by the evidence or the science." Lawmakers contend in the letter that genetically modified alfalfa would contaminate the crops of both conventional and organic alfalfa farmers, resulting in "significant economic harm to alfalfa seed producers and to the organic dairy industry."

"The [Draft Environmental Impact Statement] acknowledges that gene flow contamination will likely occur and goes on to elaborate on the conditions which increase that possibility: proximity of fields, pest management strategies, feral alfalfa corridors, movement of honey bees and overstocking of pollinators," says the letter.

"The [Draft Environmental Impact Statement] further acknowledges that honey bees, the primary pollinators of alfalfa, travel distances far in excess of the required isolation distances. While [the Animal Plant Health Inspection Service] maintains that contamination is unlikely, they contradict their own conclusion by determining that glyphosate tolerant alfalfa deregulation will lead to a shift to larger farms as alfalfa producers seek more land to avoid contamination."

Demand for organic dairy is growing rapidly and the sector currently generates about $1.4 billion in sales, according to the letter.

"Consumers today respect and rely on what the USDA certified organic seal represents, which includes no GE contamination," the letter continues. "If the USDA organic seal no longer represents a GE-free product, the integrity of the entire organic industry in this country will be compromised and consumers may no longer choose organic products.""

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2010/0...y-gmo-alfalfa/

This link is an addendum of sorts to my last posting. It's just one listing of companies producing food with GM and non GM ingredients. Note that it is stated throughout "may contain GMO ingredients.
http://truefoodnow.files.wordpress.c...ge-booklet.pdf

Just go back and review your posts on this and all similar related threads and you will see where I and various others come to that conclusion.

As for the lawmakers who are against GM alfalfa, it's quite apparent that few of them have ever been near an alfalfa plant or know anything about it other than that cows eat it. Strange also that so many here claim that Monsanto "owns" all of the lawmakers. I can only scratch my head on that one!

It's also apparent that there are few here who have a clue as to its life cycle and why this new line has so much importance. Otherwise there might not have been such a quick departure of the subject matter. It's already been covered before with some of the same contributors so none of them can claim ignorance. And for those who don't know, that's what the Internet search features are for.

There's a lot of work being done on alfalfa barely 10 miles from here and nobody is going to find out what it is until the right time comes. And guess what? It won't be Monsanto!

Martin

I don't like factory farming nor do I agree with the insane subsidies that corporate farmers pull in out of my tax dollars. I don't like GMO's either. I like farmers just fine. I happen to be a small scale farmer and I know plenty of them and I like them all and they like me. I have no idea where you draw your conclusions from since I have never once said anything that desparaged farmers. Maybe you would care to point out where I did so?

Nope! Don't feel that it's necessary on an alfalfa thread. You might want to be a little more careful about criticizing how other farmers tend to their crops and lands and what they grow. If you want to bring politics into it, no problem with that as long as you don't try to get personal or humiliating. Also, when someone says something that is true and then you claim that he or she is not stating the truth, be prepared for someone to come in with a shovel to clean up your gutter. If it ain't me, there are many others with a major agronomy background who only prefer the truth and not the BS. If I want BS, I'm only about 15 miles away from the best BS in the world, ABS.

Martin

Pardon my ignorance, but who does Monsanto "own" on the Supreme Court? I know who the abortionists are, but haven't a clue who the gmo plant is.

We can't grow alfalfa around here... so it's not an issue. Are there any members on this board that make a living off of growing alfalfa? If it's not a dramatic improvement over regular alfalfa, I can't see anyone using it.

Do the folks who do grow stuff here EVER use roundup (*I don't*) or any other chemical concocted by a corporation... and if you don't, do you actually make a living at it?

I think this whole thread is just an expansion upon the regular division of ideas... those that like making money, and those that think money is evil. Hobbyists vs. Professionals. It'd be nice if everyone could get by on good intentions, but to produce enough excess commodities to supply others, a rather large investment in land and equipment is required... which requires actually making enough money to pay off the bank note, fuel, supplies, and a little left over for wages...

We go through a lot of alfalfa (for the milk goats) each year. Would be nice to be able to grow it in one of my meadows... If I could save having to replant the field twice as often, or if I could save money, I probably would.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

About what I figured call you on it and you can't back up the accusation. That's fine I just won't see you anymore. Life is too short to waste it on pointless arguments.

Clarence Thomas, he used to be one of their lawyers and there were calls for him to recuse himself.

I happen to receive my sole support from my farm so I don't think I qualify as a hobbyist thanks. I also don't happen to think money is evil either but destroying the earth we hold in trust for children and grandchildren is.

Amen Patt, I`m with you on this also >Thanks marc

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Patt, I think you are perhaps a gardener, not a farmer, and are confusing that.

There is nothing wrong at all with gardeners.

I find your comments to be very anti-farming, and against providing food for a large portion of the world's population. I think if your beleifs were to become the way of the world, many people would suffer from hunger, and many farmers in the USA would be out of a job.

That is my opinion.

I think you do not grasp much of the discussion going on here, and come back with replies that do not address the issues being raised.

This is my opinion, but it does not mean I don't like you or will not find value in other discussions we have on other topics.

To me, it appears your views on GMO products are based on fear & misinformation. Very little of what you have said on GMO actually passes the test of review.

I do believe you hate GMO's, and you should have the right to do your gardening without GMO's.

In an intelligent conversation, I can find many, many things wrong with the laws governing GMO products, and wrong with the direction the business world is taking agriculture, and many things wrong with the way the world is run.

Unfortunately, I cannot have a conversation with you about it, because you do not seem to have the depth of information on the topic to really 'get anywhere.' Your world is one of fear & hate & lack of knowledge on this topic.

That is unfortunate. There are likely things we could agree on - as well as the things we disagree on.

At any rate, it is not really possible for me to have a conversation with you on this topic. You appear to have a religious-like belief in your view of the topic, and facts be darned, you are going to believe it your way, and continue to provide incorrect data to back up your beliefs.

There is little to be gained by continuing such a conversation.

Good luck with your gardening, and homesteading, and I wish you well. I hope we can communicate better on other topics around here - on gardening I bet you could teach me many, many things May your mind be open to new ideas some day on farming concerns.

--->Paul

As I said, just look at your replies. You give the impression that you are against just about any farming practice except whatever it is that you employ. That equates to "My way or the highway!" thinking which grates on anyone involved in farming. Then you don't like so-called factory farming but your hero seems to be a lying, cheating politician and mega-farmer who was proven to be a crook long ago. Then you use him to fabricate a case to discredit the truth presented by a previous replier. You were wrong then and still are. My ethics on this forum are usually to treat each thread individually regardless of previous dealings with either the person who starts a thread or later replies. You threw the glove to make it a personal thing while knowing that you were wrong. You were only ignorant once. "Fool me once, your fault. Fool me twice, my fault." Now you're suffering from forum foot-in-mouth disease and didn't need my help to lift your leg.

As a side note, we buried my high school ag teacher Saturday. He was 97. He was a great one who taught a lot of very successful future farmers. Just in the past week, so much of his teachings have come back and he was right in everything that he ever taught us. After seeing such success, I see no reason to ever forget a single lesson.

Martin

Never said they were the best just clearing up some bad info put out by someone else.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Yea is is great when a Co can get a patent on a seed that can spread to someone else's farm then sue you for saving your own seed

You should have a right to spread all the BS you want to but i should have the right for it to stop at my property line

Alfalfa won't spread by pollen drift and nobody has ever been sued for pollen drift.


Martin

This is a debate that is never going to end, because both sides have good points. The problem I have is that many are against GMO simply because they hate big corporations that control them, and ignore the benefits of them. Many people that I hear complaining about the "Monsantos" of the world have no trouble shopping at Wal-Mart, which destroyed many small town "mom & pop" businesses. They bash "big oil" companies as they drive their SUV's or big old pick-ups. Unfortunately, without these large corporations, we would not enjoy many of the comforts we currently have. The medicine that saved a family member, or the food that is affordable for many, is all brought to you by large corporations. Unfortunately, the people that want to grow a crop that is not influenced by GMO plants will have to be creative using "planting buffers" of other crops. In about two weeks we will start detasseling about 1100 acres of "seed corn" (sorry, but Monsanto/Dekalb), and these fields have to be planted with buffers of other crops so they remain pure. Is it an inconvenience? yes! But, this is the way of the world so you learn to adapt techniques. I wish Monsanto would develop something to control RAIN!! One last rant to the comments about leaving things to god or higher power to decide what should grow. My feeling is that maybe god gave certain people the intelligence and ability to create such technology because he knows more than us and maybe it is part of his plan.

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IOWA

Wow. +1,000 Great Post.

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Double Amen Patt, We hear you and agree with you. You are not alone.

I suppose you will have to define "Farmer" for me then. I was under the impression it means someone who operates a farm and a farm is defined as:
1.A tract of land cultivated for the purpose of agricultural production.
2.
a.A tract of land devoted to the raising and breeding of domestic animals.
b.An area of water devoted to the raising, breeding, or production of a specific aquatic animal: a trout farm; an oyster farm.

I happen to make my living by selling vegetables, fruit, meat from various animals, eggs, etc. I would say that meets the definition of Farmer. Maybe you could share what definition you are using?

As for my facts I use footnotes and links to things like the USDA, CDC, etc. I try not to use quotes from sites that have an agenda that might skew what they post. Now you may not like my facts but I would appreciate it if you would not call my data incorrect unless you have something to back it up.