pit bull attacked our jersey, or singin' the new farm blues
 

We've been on our new farm about three weeks now. This past week, the frost free pump froze solid, the tractor broke, we got a skunk in the milk room, and the roof tore off one of the barns. Chalk it all up to the stuff that happens when you take over a farm that's been neglected for years. We were handling it all as it came. Then, yesterday, the tenants' dogs, led by a big male pit bull, attacked our Jersey. I've never seen a living animal look worse than she does right now. They tore both her ears right off, leaving gory, messed up stumps, punctured her eye and nose, lacerated her haunches, legs, and her udder. Just looking at her right now makes me cry. She's the sweetest cow in the world. She stood for hand milking last night after all this without a kick. The vet says she'll most likely be fine, she just won't win any beauty contests without ears. The tenants felt terrible and shot all three of their dogs, even though we told them we didn't want them put down, just put off the farm. They said they felt like they couldn't trust the dogs anymore, after seeing our poor cow, and didn't want to foist the responsibility off on someone else. The pit bull's owner really loved him, and I could see how hard it was for him. They're good neighbors, despite this mess. All the dogs had been raised around cows, and there wasn't any reason not to trust them, except that he's a pit bull. I never say this sort of thing about a breed, since I believe every individual dog is different, but the damage a pit bull can do in a matter of minutes is so scary, I won't ever let one around my livestock or my family again. Just needed to share this with you all, as we're feeling pretty down about all of it.
-Kristin

well, nothing wrong with your neighbors; they stepped up to the plate and took responsibility. My understanding is that the pit bull is descended from the dogs that were used in "bull baiting', its in their blood to try to take down a cow. Sorry to hear about this.

Dog Attack
 

Your neighbors appear to be good people, not always the case in situations like this...They did the right thing! Keep wounds clean and meds in her, she sounds like a "keeper". Will be thinking about all of you...Joan

You have responsable neighbours- but be aware the situation will arise again, and that is why farmers shoot any stray dogs on their property.
Another point-it is likely in the dog;s breeding and temperament to go after cattle- just as some breeds instinctively work with sheep.That is a valid reason for people in the country [ or anywhere for that fact] to choose breeds that at least have genetic tendencies to do the job they are bred for.Some breeds are better watch dogs, others are better family dogs, others are tracking, retrievers,pointers etc.Not a bad thing to keep in mind when choosing a dog.
Nobody wants to put a dog down, so some care in choosing the breed to match the habitat or desired use can make at least the chances of compatability better.

another point- that could of been a child, not your cow.

Almost any breed of dog will take down (or try to) an animal when they start running in packs. We had this happen with ranch dogs and pets in Wyoming. Two well trained blue heelers led the pack of four or five dogs including our son's mutt. They worried the neighbors sheep and took down some 4-H sheep on the ranch. The owner of the blue heelers was in a real snit and blamed the "pets" and said we had to shoot them. I told him when he shot his blue heelers the next bullet could be for our dog. We all kept our dogs confined thereafter.

Dogs should not be allowed to run free, no matter how much land you have or what breed they are. All dogs are only a little bit away from their wild origins,& when they run in packs instinct takes over. The most gentle family dog can become a livestock killer when in a pack. Sort of like the Mob mentality in humans. I don't like generalisations about breeds of dogs. Any dog is an individual & is only as good or bad as it's master makes it. Train your dogs & confine them or keep them under your personal control.

bgak47 said it right. Any dog not watched can become trouble! Our pitbull spent years going to convalescent homes in the share a pet program she was a great dog ,But we were responsible owners. Sorry your cow got hurt. Was the pit nuetered? hopefully the next dogs your neighbors get will be watched better.Give your cow lots of love and hopefully she will be fine, thank goodness she wasnt killed.

Sorry to hear of your ordeal!! Our experience is that the sweetest of dogs can become horrors if allowed to run in a pack. I hope that your cow continues to improve and that the neighborhood consider the situation as a forewarning of what could have been an attack on a child.

I am so sorry this happened. Your poor cow....I hope she heals up alright. Also hope that things start lookin' up for you and your new farm. Keep your chin up!

pit bull
 

Actually neutering a pit bull still doesn't affect his/her ability to do the work he/she was bred to do. I used to raise and sell registered pits for wild hog catching work. Spaying/neutering doesn't work for pits like it would in other breeds. It's bred in them. Alot of herding breeds still will herd even if they're spayed..same thing with terriers. I have to keep an eye on my dacshund/schanuzer cross pup because she will not take any crap from a horse or a cow and isn't afraid of them. As a matter of fact she went for a horse's nose simply bec he tried to bite her! The horse tried to stomp her while I was trying to grab her and hollering at her to stop. After that, she stayed on the LEASH!

Ted

Good point ted but I think it makes a calmer dog and less apt to want to chalange you when the hormones kick in.

pit bulls are agressive, by nature and breeding. nurture and environment cannot take that away, you cant defete genetics. you cant nurture the hunter out of the wolf, and you cant love the killer out of a pitt bull. I know many of these dogs are,very lovy and sweet tempered BUT they were bred and geneticly selected for killing, it is thier nature. many breeds are like this, the breeds bred as war dogs, gaurds and sport killers.
you neighbors did the right thing, and its great you all get along well. In the future NEVER have ANYTHING to do with a pitt bull unless its pulling a trigger. It is an outdated breed that serves no use on a farm or a family. The genetics should be preserved, you never know why you will need a breed in the future, BUT... I would classyfy them in the same list as keeping a tiger or a wolf in captivity.... its a potentially dangerous dog, by reason of its instinct and breeding.
There are other breeds that make just a good an attck/gaurd dog that does not posses a killers instinct.
The only reason you would posses a dog that is so large and srong and agressive is as a guard or an attacker, and your target is, quite frankly not cows, its other human beings. A pack of 3 large poodles can rip up a man as well as one pitt bulll, and the agression isnt there. If your thinking of owning a pitt bull, consider 2 shepards or a pair of other breed dog.
Pitt bulls are BAD NEWS. So many kids around here get killed or mauled by "pet bulls" or by some ones bull thats jumped a fence. Unlike most dogs, the PB is bold and agressive alone, having a pack doesnt make them worse, although it doesnt help.
just like some people are geneticly an azzhole or a killer, it is no different with dogs. before you blindly by a breed research the breed, see why it was bred and what its intended job was. it may save you a lot of heartache and pain.

Does anyone remember ''Petey'', the dog in The Little Rascals ? He was a pitt bull. There was a time in the 1920s & 1930s when pitt bulls were the most popular breed in America for family pets. They're loyal & protective, but they are NOT inherently evil,any more than people are. I aggree that certain breeds are predisposed to certain types of behavior, but behavior CAN be modified by training & nurturing. The finest bird dog, with the best pedigree,won't be able to hunt without proper training. Training is what separates good dogs from curs, & it is up to their owners to eliminate bad behavior. The smartest pup in the world has to be trained not to poop in the house. I think that the problem with pitts & many other breeds,is that they become popular & are bred indiscriminately for money, without regard for health or temperament,but the real problem is the fact that too many people have false expectations about dogs. Too many people think that they can get a certain breed of dog & expect a certain type of behavior from it, with no thought about their responsibility to TRAIN it. Dogs are Man's Best Friend, but it is a 2 way street, & we have to be a friend to them by teaching them the best ways to get along with us.

:haha: I've raised pits for awhile....some of my friends have been breeding them far longer than I have. Comfortably numb has bought into the pit bull myths. Keep in mind, the vast majority of the pits out there were probably raised and bred by gangbangers and left outside. Any dog that's left outside on a chain 24/7 will develop mental problems mainly because they have to defend theirselves and are left without any training. They bark, dig, howl, etc to demostrate their wanting to be with the pack. Keep in mind, pits are dominant dogs and require you to be the alpha at ALL times! They're not dogs you can leave in the backyard. As a matter of fact, I've never allowed my pits to be in the yard without me watching because they can get stolen. I've had pups stolen from me three times by a snot nosed kid who sold them for $500 each without papers for fighting purposes! I had cops sent in on the kid and his family but couldn't get any evidence but they now know he's into dog fighting.

Ted

Well,dog fighting is the main reason that pitt bulls are seen as a threat. Dogs that fight HAVE TO BE TRAINED to FIGHT!

dog fighting
 

Reality check guys. Dogs don't have to be trained to fight if it's bred into them. If a dog has to be encouraged to fight, they're not fighters by nature. Keep in mind, my dogs aren't dog aggressive and I breed AWAY from that goal for dog friendly dogs that can get along with other dogs on a hunt which is valuable because bay and find dogs are worth lots of money while the catch dog is the warrior that goes in and catch 'em on the ear. A hog hunter will put down a dog that fights with his strike/bay dogs without question because of this reason. Catch dogs don't need training, period!

Ted

believe what you like... they are your kids, not mine.
Ive seen the family pitts thing as recently as last summer, one was playing with 2 kids, brought up from a pups, lovely home, kind people. perfect environment. the pitt was playing in the fenced yard with these 2 little kids.. a another lill kid passed by outside the fence on the street, stumbled and fell, and the pitts snapped to action, over the fence and mauled the kid half to death. the kid didnt scare them, the dogs knew the kid. they ignored him till he fell, then instinct took over. A good friend of mine ran over and beat the dogs off the kid with HER fists and the pits ran back to thier yard. they didnt attack the adult who was being agressive, or the kids in the yard... they intentionally attacked the lil kid that fell on the street.

again.. these wasnt anything but a raised from a weened pup loved yo death slobbering babies... very nice dogs i will say freely. and timid, they never to my witness ever groweled at anyone.

explain why the action of the lil kid on the street falling down triggered an attack?

the instinct no matter how hidden is still there, its not just pitts, its a lot of breeds.
Not putting anyone down or picking a fight, but if you want to play with your kids life go ahead.... is a hip breed of dog worth it?

besides...we put down millions of dogs every year for lack of homes, why, besides for the money would you breed MORE?
its popular
its cool
its a money maker.

Nothing wrong with making money.... unless your a drug dealer right?
My niece breeds dogs... makes good cash too. when you say"adopt a shelter dog" she sais like most do "oh but these dogs are purebreds! they arent like those shelter dogs"
yea shes right.. they arent like the dogs at the shelter... the dogs at the shelter are much better. :D

In the end, it is an individual choice, own a pitt, roll the dice.

I make no claim of knowing breeds, but something seems pretty simple to me- if you want to go duck hunting - you buy a lab or a similardog bred for those instincts.Ifyou want a pointer , you buy a pointer.Ifyou want a sheep dog- you buy a sheep dog.Now if you want a guard dog- you buy a dog with very territorial instincts, breeds known for that.You don't go buying guard dogs for hunting, and you don't go buying defense dogs for herding,so why have a dogthatsimply isn't bred for what you want to do.Personally- I will shoot any pitbull on my property; I'm sure as heck not going to wait until he attacks my kid to find out if he's friendly or not.
Again- I go back to my farmer friends- they shoot any and all stray dogs on their property.Period.No questions asked..

pit bulls
 

Anyone catch the news this morning? Three pits killed a woman feeding her horses, attacked her husband when he went looking for her. The dogs then attacked a neigbor whose son shot and killed all three.

Say what you will; owning a pit is like playing with a loaded pistol. Same for Dobes and Rotts. Neighbor here raised a Rott from a pup with his kids. Dog got mature and bit the smaller child TWICE before the neighbor put him down.

Ox

one of the farms close had a nice friendly rottenweiler... even I liked him when he trotted past on his unsupervised walks...he was friendly.
then one day he shredded the neighbors beagle on a line who was out for a poop, and both his other dogs who were loose. ripped them to shreds.

my neighbor blew his head off when he stepped onnthe front porch.

and the rots owner bouhgt 2 more rotts... go figure.

:no:

I'm so sorry about your poor cow.
Just sent home after nursing an Arabian Gelding who was attacked by a Bull Mastiff. The damage was gruesome. 62 stiches in his head and muzzle, 8 inch tear in throat, wound in his chest that I could put my hand in to clean and pack with medication, plus numerous other smaller wounds. Home for this horse is not where the attack took place he was just being boarded while his owner moved.
This didn't happen at my farm but the people who witnessed it said the dog wouln't quit. It was finaly wrestled down by a bystander. The dog is still alive and has killed a cow before this. This dog is BIG trouble.
The link to the article about the Colorado incident is:


http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...801411,00.html

Yvonne

I hear from my indian friends boiled dog is quite tasty...
a pitt bull or a mastiff could feed a small family for a week.

eeww? why eeewww? if your gonna kill it show it some respect and eat it.

'bad' breeds
 

All dogs have killing 'in their blood'...Being descended from wolves- creatures that kill other animals to survive.
There's nothing wrong with winnowing the dogs of ANY breed that decide humans are prey-such winnowing created 'man's best friend' in the first place.
Any animal if selectively bred for agression could produce a dangerous animal..I wouldn't be surprised if bunnies or goats could be bred to fight to the death..
The problem with deciding any breed is 'bad' because stupid people breed them to fight is the stupid people then move on to the next breed, and the next, and the next.
A farmer I bought ducks from had this huge rottie- the dog was whined a little at the little ducklings' distress at my catching them and putting them in a box while the farmer looked on. Nothing more- but God help anyone messing with his livestock if he wasn't there...
Weren't rotties originally bred to work with livestock?
Everything said about rotties, pitts or mastiffs could apply to pyrs, anatolian sheperds or any other breeds used to protect livestock. Breeds that are powerful because their job calls for it.
Scary thought.

I'm sorry about your cow. I pray she will be ok. Animals are so resilient. We have a kitten that got into my soap making supplies and got lye in her mouth. She won't win any beauty contest, but she is one of the sweetest kittens we've ever had.

just for the record comfortably pits were bred to NOT QUIT and originally the dog fighters culled human aggressive dogs for the common sense reason that they were difficult to handle in the pit. the reoccuring theme in dog attacks are a history of misbehavior & a failure to act by the apropriate agency. in nearly every attack i have read about in the last year there is always some statement to the effect that several prior complaints were made against the dog/owners. 95% of all pit bulls have never attacked anything. the MAJORITY of the other 5% work for guys like Ted. so because one "homesteader" is an animal collecting whacko they all are and should be banned for the well being of all animals. sounds a lot dumber this way but it is the same philosophy. even moreso because most people can't tell a pit from any other dog. here is a link to prove it.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

unregistered your friends can make a lot of enemies quick by shooting one hunting dog crossing their property. it's a bad philosophy to shoot out of hand. don't forget people have been convicted of cruelty for "needlessly" shooting dogs.

Hi,

sorry to hear about your cow - hope she's feeling better this morning! Poor thing, sounds like she's definitely a keeper. Just keep washing out those wounds and she should be fine. Guess the vet gave her a tetanus and a rabies booster? I have horses and they get rabies shots just like the dogs do just in case.

Speaking of dogs - does anyone know that the number one biter of people is the cocker spaniel? At least on the last list of most dog bites reported, the cocker was listed as number one.

Tell you the truth - ANY dog can kill, bite or maim children and livestock. Doesn't necessarily have to be a pitt or a rottie or shepherd or a mastiff or any other the guard breeds in particular. It can be Aunt Fannie's lab who joined forces with Uncle Billy's beagle who joined forces with Grannie's terrier and now it's off to the races to chase a few goats. My neighbors used to turn their "pet" dogs out at night to run and guess where they ran? My goat pens. I warned them about my Pyr and even returned a couple of dogs to the neighbors. After that, the dogs that came on the property were taken care of by Amos. Some got run off and some didn't quite make it home. "But these were pets, sweet little labs and retrievers and poodles and terriers... said the neighbors, and I said, "and your point is??? It was these same sweet little doggies that run my goats and foals."

People need to realize that all dogs have the kill potential and it is the owner's responsibility to control, train, and be aware of what their dog is doing. My Pyr is big enough to chew up practically anything he comes into contact with and he is a big ole baby with people. He never leaves the property either (the vet even comes to visit him) and is penned with the livestock. He also walks on a leash, sits, comes, and stays on command. It is my responsibility to make sure that he is well behaved even though he works for a living (right now he's working towards his well earned retirement!). Doesn't matter whether it is a taco bell dog or a mastiff, all dogs should have basic obedience training, be controlled on and off the property, and owners should be held accountable for their dogs behavior.

Sidepasser

right on the money Sidepasser.
that is exactly what pit bull enthusiasts have been trying to get across for the last 2 decades. the dogs are no more or less dangerous than any other. there are game dogs that refuse to quit in many breeds. problem behavior is almost universally the fault of the owner. but mention the words pit bull and you'll hear all kinds of fanciful stories. they are being treated unfairly based on something they can't control, their breed (not necessarily their individual behavior). this treatment often comes from people who would never tolerate such discrimination of other people.
my primary concern in the whole issue is that these idiots can't tell the difference between a pit & a patterdale. my dog is often mistaken for a pit even though he hasn't a drop of pit in him.

Many home owners insurance companies now have a list of "banned dogs".

These include Pit Bulls, Rots & Dobermans. While I'd never own a Pit or Bull anything, my wife had (past tense), trained Dobermans for years. After seeing for myself what GREAT family pets they make, as well as being home bodies, I was a convert to Dobes.

But, the economics of it are simple - insurance or a Doberman, our morgage company made that choice for us. We have this little white fluffy thing we got from the shelter - she chases rabbits, doesn't mind - despite training, retraining, daily work, etc. Whatever's in her blood - it's there, and we're not gonna change it.

Bill

I have to admit that I find the argument *it's all in the training* pretty lacking.

Hounds, for example, require good fencing. NO AMOUNT OF TRAINING can overcome their noses or their independent spirits, which in combination lead them on the path of the3 first good scent, despite any and all training.

GSH are HERDING dogs - note the name shepherd - and that herding instinct unchecked quickly and easily becomes predatory.

Same with pit bulls. Any dog can hurt you with a bite - but the mechanics and shape of the pit bull's jaws, etc, render it a particularly deadly dog. As does their drive and aggression.

An aggressive hound is no match for an aggressive pit bull. Sorry. Seen it for myself.

An aggressive Doberman is no match for an aggressive piut bull. Seen that, too.

How many more people and animals getting killed and maimed by these bizrre attacks is it going to take before you guys realize IT'S A PART OF THEIR BREEDING! Just as hounds were bred for certain purposes, just as shepherds were bred for certain purposes, so it is with pit bulls.

Dog Attack
 

Kristin... PLEASE keep us up to date on your cow. How is she doing?...Joan

I remember Petey from Little Rascals- that cool dog with the circle around one eye.

I'm not sure but I don't think there is any killer wolf instinct left in my wife's toy Pomeranian. She might be able to bite a finger if she had a mind to.....but on second thought I don't her mouth opens that wide. When she breaks out into a full run she can't keep up with me when I'm out walking in the morning. I doubt seriously if she would even chase a rabbit. Every rabbit I've seen has been bigger than she is. I don't think she would even think to kill a bug if she was dyin' of starvation.

"I'm not sure but I don't think there is any killer wolf instinct left in my wife's toy Pomeranian"

Hate to tell you but a Pomeranian, yes, a Pomeranian killed a baby in California.

I have worked with dogs for years...10 years in an Animal Emerg Clinic where I saw animals in pain having to be restrained....I have NEVER, seen a pit bull, no matter what discomfort, broken legs, HBC, etc ever bite.

I have been bitten by many other breeds.

I also train dogs competitively. My pit is one of the best I have ever had. Although I am cautious around her with other dogs, I trust her with any kid and she plays with all the kids in my family from toddler on up.

Like was said earlier 95% of the pits are great companions. You hear about chained up, neglected, abused dogs, they make the headlines.

Its kinda like saying we should take away everyones guns because a few idiots use it as a weapon. Why should those of us who truly understand this wonderful breed because a few uninformed idiots are panicked?

The problem is getting and law enforcement to enforce leash laws and vicious dog probs. I love those articles that say the dog had bitten "twice before" and no one did that.

Hey did anyone hear about that Lab that mauled the little boy out east? Looks like he is facing months of painful surgery.... :(

In a pit bull bashing thread a while back, either her or at TheHighRoad, I posted the stats on dog attacks nationally. Pits were quite a ways down the list, as they were with attack related human deaths specifically. IF they were the top attackers I might accept the hype but the fact is they are not, it's simply a certain hype that has infested the media. If folks will remember the "Evul Dog" in the 80's was Dobermans. Now that's a laugh. The only bigger baby than a Dobey is a Pit.

I'll say, too, that Pits are not the ultimate machine some people seem to think regarding dog fights. I watched a German Shepherd/wolf cross destroy a pit a few years back. Made me think of that old saying, something about it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog...

Kristin... PLEASE keep us up to date on your cow. How is she doing?...Joan


Thanks for asking, Joan. She seems to be doing well. The cuts on her udder and her legs are closed and healing. The swelling around her eyes is coming down. Her ears are still a total mess, and it's hard to tell what will be left of them once she's healed, but she's eating and drinking well, and her spirits seem a little better. Her milk production dropped way down after the attack, and that's back up now closer to normal level. We're trying to keep her as warm as possible with hay bale insulation so she won't lose more of the tissue on her head to frostbite. All in all, we're impressed with her resiliency. She's a good cow. Thanks for the good wishes posted here.
-Kristin

please tell me it wasnt in a dogfight pit.

Nah, a neighbors pit decided it didn't like the wolf mix I was babysitting for a friend and came over to play bully. He got his ass handed to him and went home, very slowly, missing an ear, I think an eye and carrying various rips and tears that bled profusely. I never saw him again so I think his journey home was purely to find a comfortable place to die. The mix had a few bites but was relatively unscathed.

Interestingly enough the "friend" never came after her dog and he eventually wound up dead from another fight. Mixed it up with a big cat of whatever type it is that's seen around here occasionally. Had his throat ripped out. The cat bled out and died about 50 feet away with similar wounds. One tough dog.

Interesting story about that dog also, which I just remembered. Sitting in that friends house one day we watched their neighbors poodle come sauntering over to do his usual routine of eating the big dog's food. The wolf mix would usually just ignore it, though occasionally he'd he'd make a lunge to run the poodle off from the food dish which was at the edge of his chain run. The poodle would always just step back and sit there, just out of range and yap. Deliberately annoying.

Well this day things went a little differently. We had seen the wolf mix(can't remember his name to save my life) walk over to his food bowl earlier and drag it back into his range about a foot or two. Odd, he'd never done that before, but we didn't think much of it. But when the poodle arrived this day the mix just got up and walked over, stopping where his chain would have ended relative to the food bowl if he had not moved it. The poodle followed routine and stepped back just out of reach if the bowl had been in its normal place.

The mix took two steps forward and stood over the poodle. I swear the little dog wet itself and turned pale. It's fur turned pale. And at that point the mix reached down, chomped the back of the poodle and neatly broke its neck. Tossed the corpse off towards the neighbors fence and went back and sat down in the shade again. We sat in the kitchen with our mouthes hanging open. There was absolutely no way to deny the mix had coldly calculated the entire murder over a span of at least several hours and set up events to play out the way it wanted.

Logical abstract thought to achieve a very specific goal. I always loved that animal, gorgeous white coat and really odd colored almost orange eyes. Cool as hell. But I guarantee you I NEVER turned my back on him after that day...

wolves are very inteligent....
thats a pretty amazing story... with the bowl.

I'd say it was a killer but honestly.. if I was on a chain and a poddle made it his daily chore to irrtate me, I think in his place I would have done the same... :haha:

must have been a german shepard mix.. you know how they feel about the french.
:haha: