MO Homestead & Raw Milk battle

I have really enjoyed reading this, lots of good points for and against.. I personally am a raw milk fan, and since we were not able to find a source we purchased several milk goats. My initial plan was to recoup some of the feed costs by selling milk, and have had no problem doing that, @ 2.50 a quart but I recently decided to no longer sell, it is just to risky. What is sad is that I care for the goats and do the milking, straining, chilling, as well as sanitizing the jars, strainer, etc.. I KNOW that it is clean and handled properly. I have no worries about drinking this milk myself or serving it to my family yet selling it to strangers scares me.

I totally agree. we decided to raise calves rather than 'share' milk. I thin party of the point here is who get to decide what you will or won't eat/drink? I think if the govt pays for the healthcare, but default, they get a say in what you do - raw milk is only 1 small point of control we are yet to see many, many more.

Finally. Common sense from a judge. I wish them the best on the next one.

That is good news.

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Glad to see it. Wish them the best on the next case.

What most of the people not from Mo. don't understand is ALOT of Mo. laws are written so vaguely that it's hard to tell exactly what is legal and what isn't legal. It's all left up to the "Goverment Official" investigating. IMHO they are written that way for a reason. Sometimes it works out to be a good thing , sometimes it doesn't.

I do believe that the Bechards should have explained to the Daughters a little better what they could do in this case. However I also believe the Girls thought they were doing a good thing and didn't think they were doing anything wrong.

I also believe it is being blown a little out of proportion as well. However Health Agents have a job they have to do as well. I personnally have seen a few who after being given a little authority believed they where "GOD" and were ready at the drop of a hat to bust everyone for every little violation possible just to prove they were in charge and could. I'm not just talking about health agents , I'm talking about all aspects of Government.

Hey, even civil service is a pay for performance job. The way to get promoted is to find a lot of problems to fix.

Ken , I can understand a new "Agent" being real "Gung Hoe" about thier job and jumping at everything they think could be a violation. However when it's someone that has been around for even a little while , they should see that not every little infraction needs to have the "Book" thrown at them and the issue pushed to the fullest extent of the LAW!!!!
and that seems to happen alot with "Government Officials."

I am a firm beleiver in giving at least 100% for which you are paid to do. If I was a prosecutor, I would do whatever I could to seek a conviction. If a defense attorney, then whatever it took on that side, whether or not I thought they were actually guilty. I use to run around with a group in which there were a couple of defense attorneys. Pretty well all said they never asked a client if they actually committed the crime.

I apologize in advance, but it seems like 'rules' today are 'suggestions'. When I would go to the A&M grocery store with Mom she had the one request rule. You could ask for something, e.g., candy, one time. She would say no. If you asked again she had a backhand faster than the speed of light which caught your ear. I swear it hurt for a half hour. Today it would be caught on in-store cameras and likely prosecuted as child abuse. I suspect all of us kids are better off today because Mom and Dad enforced the rules they made.

But, yes, as someone on a forum used the term, we are becomming a 'manny nation'. "We know what is best for you".

If I were audited for my farm expenses, changes are the auditor hasn't been closer to a cow than the roadway. You deal with it as best you can.

Sounds like a government setup to me.

Kids where there as a service to their customers.

Selling product while you are there and being there to sell product seems different to me.

If the county health department has so many employees that a couple of them just happen to be standing around a parking lot, they need to save the county some money are reduce the payroll...

Ken , I understand about doing your job to the best of your ability ie: giving 100%. However as I said before alot of the laws in Mo. are so vaguely written and with so many grey areas that they are left wide open to inturpitation by the "Agents" and not every offence is worthy of throwing the Book at the offender.

Nobody is saying we/they see laws as only suggestions or are condoning outright breaking the law. What I am trying to say as well as others that actually live in Mo. and have to deal with these vaguely written laws are trying to say is you don't know from one "Agent" to the next how they will interpite the laws. This could have been handled in a tottally differant manner and would of been just as effective and appropriate.

I don't believe there "Just Happened" to be a Health Dept. agent in the area on two seperate occassions , which "Just Happened" to be the same days as another customer was a "No-Show" just a little to "Coinsidental" in my book. Also most shop owners/mgrs I've ever had to deal with , if they didn't want you in thier parking lot would just tell you and not call "Law Enforcement" to remove you unless it is a repeat offence. Which it apparentally was not or the judge would have never thrown the case out.

I agree with Troy. The Health Department didn't "just happen" to find this isolate3d violation. I* suspect that this happened often enough to draw the attention of t5he Health Department. They can't chyarge the3m with the numerous violations they didn't directly see. Too much trouble to search out witnesses for past violations. So, they were charged with the violations that the Health Department actually witnessed.As Ken was saying, the judge needs to see if a law was violated and the defendent needs to show how the violation wasn't really a violation. In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty. If the Health Department didn't present enough proof or there were things that clouded the facts, they get off. Generally, the Health Departments or Departmentr of Ag is just trying to insure the laws are followed. Hopefully, these folks have learned a leason and will follow the law. Further, if you don't like the law, study the reasons it exists and then if you want, see if you can change the law.

I agree with you 100% haypoint.

Heard this morning they dropped the charges

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Glad they were acquitted, this gives a little different spin on things than the original article:

I agree with Troy that vague laws are the bane of small farmers! They are the same way here in AR. So basically you have to leap out there and do something and hope somebody doesn't interpret things differently from you. I hope the battle with the state goes as well. And hopefully it will get the law clarified to the point that everyone knows what is and is not allowed.

It's not just with things like this in Mo. it's with alot of other laws here as well. They are so vaguely written you can only assume they do it on purpose. Even those that are charged with keeping the laws can't always agree with what they actually say.

However I do love this area.

The reason laws are vaguely written is so if you are the one targeted they have ways of making it work to their advantage against you. It is then up to you to prove your innocent. It should never be against the law to sell raw (REAL) milk, we just need standards that work nation wide to make raw milk sales work. > Marc

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This battle has been going on far too long. This country has gone to Hade's basement in a handbasket.

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Quite right about vague MO laws. And there is no worse sort of tyrant than a self important feeling petty bureaucrat, loosed upon the public armed with imprecise, vaguely written laws. Worse yet, many are allowed to enforce these vaguely written laws, as they choose to interpret them, all backed up with the money and might of government.

The news we've heard/read says: "Springfield City Attorney Dan Wichmer says the judge did not rule on whether the Bechards were acting properly in selling their milk, but ruled the city charged the wrong person. The Bechards' daughter was the one making the deliveries, and Armand was the one charged. There was no proof that Armand was present at the time of the sale." and "Circuit Judge Daniel Imhoff dismissed the charges on Monday, saying the daughters - rather than Bechard - should have been charged. City Attorney Dan Wichmer told the Springfield News-Leader Thursday that he wouldn't charge the girls because the statute of limitations has expired."

Bechards dodged it on the local level.

What's really disturbing about all this is the way the city is being vilified and so little is known about what brought all this about. They broke the law and they know it or should know it. They were caught selling the milk not once, but twice. The first time, they were warned. That pretty much takes the vague part out of it. They ignored the warning and sold milk again and got caught. How did they get caught? They were seen selling in the parking lot and someone called the health department and told them what was going on. Both times, a call was made to the health department. There was no set up. Someone turned them in. Both times.

Whether you agree or disagree with a law, especially after you have been warned, wouldn't you follow the law?

This is not a win for the freedom to sell raw milk. It hurts our freedom when someone blatantly ignores a law because they don't agree with it. We need to work to get laws changed and this does not help. You can bet the city attorney will not make the same mistake if someone else is caught selling raw milk in the same manner in Springfield.

This whole thing, what a shame.

Good post.

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