Are you ready for 15 to 20% Ethanol and fuel System damage ?

BamaSpek · #61 05/16/10, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

One of the very few 'good news' stories for the upper midwest - if we can get 12-15% ethanol 'allowed' by the EPA.

_Methanol_ is the bad boy that does damage, and is a solvent. It is _not_ what gets added to the gasoline.

_Ethanol_ is grain alchohol - same stuff you drink - and has very minor problems. Biggest one is if you have a dirty, varnished up gas tank, the ethanol will clean it out & clog your fuel filter. Well - the problem is you have a lot of gummy junk in your gas tank, probably good to get that cleaned out....

You don't have to mess with gas de-icers any more, as the ethanol already does that for you. The folks with boats who have issues already had issues with letting too much water into their gasoline - at some point you just get too much water in your fuel because you ain't taking care of it. Sheez. The ethanol will help for small issues; for big issues you'd have problems on pure gasoline too. It's a non-issue for most folk who take care of their stuff.

A lot of the misinformation on etrhanol is put out by oil-producing states & companies. You are getting fed intetionally misleading info, like the methanol issues - which, again, is a _totally_ different type of alcohol.

Several studies have found the average automobile actually runs better (more mpg) on a 15-25% ethanol content vs the current 10% level. While there is less btu in a gallon of ethanol, it is far more stable, and has a cleaner, more even burn rate. So it has better efficiency at about a 20% rate than it does at a 10% rate in most current auto engines.

There are a lot of E85 pumps around here, a lot of folks will create their own blend, by using some E10 and some E85, and coming up with about E25 in their tanks.

There is a _lot_ of misinformation on this topic, kinda sad.

We've had E10 for a couple decades here, it works well in Minnesota, been running my old gas tractors, and lawn mowers, and chain saws on it. It works, works fine.

You look at what is going on in the Gulfs right now (Spill in Mexican, war by Persian), and folks want to drop cleaner, better, home-grown fuel and keep using up the costly oil.....

I don't get that. Don't get it at all.

--->Paul

I live on the Gulf Coast, and was ignorant of ethanol and why it was added to fuel. I spoke to someone who works for the company that supplies and tests the additives for the oil companies, and formulates the fuel mixes. His response to me was do not put ethanol fuel in any vehicle, or especially small engine .and never in marine engines.

He also said they have changed the additives that are used to increase the octane levels of fuel. Use to be toluene and a bit of other stuff. Now they are using a little toluene and alot of branched alkanes and cheaper additives to get premium octane. Yeah they might produce lower emmissions but they cause issues with both fuel economy and engine wear. He said he never puts it in his vehicles. You are better off running lower octane with less additives.

He also said that they would be adding "marine gas" pumps around here that would be the "old" unleaded 87 grade with no ethanol. Sure enough, we have them. The are a different color pump and say marine fuel...ethanol free. It is the same 87 octane we use to get, but is sold at the price for premium fuel w/ethanol.

The owner of the station said the commercial boat fisherman threatened a class action lawsuit.

Beeman · #62 05/16/10, 10:39 AM

I think they should wait until there is no gas at the pumps. That will really get everyone's attention.

I've got countless small engines(4 stroke) 2 Stihl weedeaters 2 Husky chainsaws an 8N tractor and a race car that all run on E10. Have for years with absolutely no problems.

arabian knight · #63 05/16/10, 12:28 PM

Even as ethanol gives a mile per gallon less the trade off is better horse power.
I bet very few people know that when auto makers test their vehicles mileage and it is a flex fuel one, For Mileage they use Gasoline, For the Horse Power rating they use E85, same with the older cars before E85. Gasoline was used and is still used for Mileage rating, and the 10% mixture was and is used for the Horse power rating..
That is why many are saying they never get what the "Window Sticker" says they should on milage, nor the horse power when pulling trailers etc. Unless you know the true facts on how things are tested and rated by the auto makers.
And the truth is many cities have been converting over to natural gas. lots of fleet vehicles in cites are now using natural gas.
And this switch to ethanol was never ever ever said to replace oil, not even foreign imported oil either. it IS to be used to get the rest of the technologies up and on line, the switch to ethanol was always to see if people would switch to a alternative fuel, never was said in any other context. Oh for those that only have a negative side to things and read only anti-ethanol sites and posts they may not have ever heard the truth.
So that is why we have ethanol being pushed to "Help Out" imported oil, till "other things" get on line.

FL.Boy · #64 05/16/10, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

I think they should wait until there is no gas at the pumps. That will really get everyone's attention.

I've got countless small engines(4 stroke) 2 Stihl weedeaters 2 Husky chainsaws an 8N tractor and a race car that all run on E10. Have for years with absolutely no problems.

Same here the race car runs great with it even after sitting for 3 years. Ethanol has been in gas for 10 plus years and all my cars and trucks get the same MPG.

greif · #65 05/16/10, 08:58 PM

---- ... i am agaisnt ethanol... mainly because of the 2004 make rich richer congress gave big business all my free money to make ethanol... but..

we have have 10% here for 25 years and never had a problem.... i had 20 plus year old chaisaws and weed eater and 2cycle tiller still running great no problems and i even put about 50-60 hours a year on the chainsaw..... big old thing is hard on my wrists

been running the cars and truck on 20% for 3 years and even run 2 tanks of 85% every 3 months to clean all the guck out of the injecters never had a problem

rambler · #66 05/17/10, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordy

................IF , there are less BTu's per gallon in Ethanol , than gas , This energy deficit means it takes MORE fuel too produce an Equivalent amount of work(milage) ! Where , in the numbers , is "better" economy ? This is assuming you're comparing the same fuel in the same vehicle , as efficiency will vary with engines and year model . , fordy

Internal combustion engines are not very efficient. I hear 30% or so - the other 70% of the BTU's are blown out the exhaust pipe, cat converter, and radiator.

Gasoline is made of many bits & pieces, some 'boil' at 40 degrees, some at 190 degrees. They all have different flash points.

Ethanol is much more stable. You will have less evaporate from your fuel tank. You will have a smoother, cleaner burn wave inside the combustion chamber. The power will be a smoother wave of power, not the sudden shock load of gasoline sputtering to the different flash points. Ethanol burn a bit cooler, so there is a bit less waste heat made & - wasted.

An engine designed and tuned for use of ethanol can be much more efficient if you use these better properties, as well as much higher compression to make use of the high octane rating. (Unfortunately it is very hard to varry compression in an engine, so this benifit in multi-fuel engine is not really used.)

Currently ethnol for fuel is cheaper per gallon than gasoline for fuel.

So, you start with less BTU.

But you burn a bit more efficiently - less wasted BTUs.

And the fuel costs less per gallon.

This can easily equal less cost per mile, even if the MPG is a tad less. You have to look at more than just raw BTUs. You need the cost & efficiency also.

Several studies have shown the most cost effective point is about 20-25% ethanol blend. It depends on which engine you are using, so there is no one magic number. You end up traveling the chepaest at those blend rates, despite the fuel having less BTU per gallon and getting a bit less MPG.

--->Paul