Help me escape the progress monster!
 

I have a problem perhaps you folks could help me with. I not very long ago finished paying off my property. Just when I thought life was going to be easy, along comes progress. The local municipality is running water and sewage lines up the road and since I don’t have the money to pay 3k for each house to hook up and another 5k to dig the long long ditches and pipes to the house (I have to pay their contractors I’m not allowed to dig em myself.. ---- commies!)
So since I cant pay them they intend to place a lein on my properties…that’s about $16k plus whatever else they stack on later. That’s a big chunk out of my equity.
I want to sell out and leave it, and buy a raw track in WV not far from here. The land is undevelopable, and best of all cheap, and far enough off the beaten tracks that progress wont get there till I am to old to care.
Problem is…. I dunno the first thing about selling property. I live in PA, If anyone of you nice people can give me some pointers on how to go about this, I would appreciate it greatly. I want to get it sold before the progressive commies get their act together and start digging.
My place probably isn’t worth much, but I can squeeze blood out of nickels, so I will shop for what I can afford once I figure out what I can get…
Time for me to learn, and I have to do it fast.
Who will help me escape?
LoL.. any and all help is greatly appreciated!
If anyone wants a tiny farmette on the grinding edge of progress.. I got one for sale.
School bus stops at the front door… we got broadband cable and TV…we will soon (to soon for my liking) have city water and sewage. It’s a nice quiet place, I have never had to lock a door. In fact till a year ago my front door had no doorknob, just a latch. (girlfriend moved in she wanted a doorknob she got a doorknob, she moved out and the knob stayed…lol)
If I had the cash…I wouldn’t really mind the pipes, but I don’t have it and rather than having a lien I will never pay off, it makes more sense to me to just sell it NOW and buy a place as remote as this once was 20 yrs ago. I had no neighbors, a dirt road, most people didn’t even know this was a road.. now its paved, the new houses are poping up, and the twp. Keeps eyeballing my tiny plot of paradise to see if its “properly cleaned”. It’s a microfarm under construction.. you cant keep it yuppie clean. They even started driving by with a big tractor and a cutter arm whacking down the wildflowers! Barbarians! Last year they sprayed defoliant down the road.. that upset a bunch of people.
Needless to say uts time to bug out and I dunno how. All I know is the deeds are paid, with no liens or notes against em. That has to make it easier.. shouldn’t it/?

Whether you sell yourself or list with a realtor you must disclose the coming water/sewer lines. Around here when the county runs lines the property owner can make monthly payments on the lines as part of the water/sewer monthly bill. the biggest problem with selling yourself is you really have no way to ensure the potential buyer really has the $$ to buy. It is difficult for an individual to run a credit check on another person or check their employment history. for your safetys sake if you do try to sell it yourself plan to have a title company or lawyer do the closing documents so you don't lose the property and/or the money. do you really want everyone and his brother coming into your home and checking things out. How are you going to distinguish real buyers from those just looking or being nosey? Best to list with a realtor and let them take care of that stuff and protect your interests. They know the local market and can give you a very accurate idea of what your property will sell for. List the property for enough to cover the commission fee and have the realtor show by appointment only.

Sorry I can't help too much, but not sure I understand the problem...are you saying you own property with a house, and I assume already have a septic system and a well, and yet the "authorities" are focing you to buy into a municipal water/sewer system? that sure doesn't seem right to me. I would never give up my well water for anything the town was going to provide....

As far as selling it, I agree with the other poster, if you don't know how to sell it, then probably you should hire a realtor.

actually its 2 houses on one chunk of property but I could have it surveyed off into 2.
Yes, the local powers that be dont seem to know exactly whgat they are doing, one told me I can keep usiing the septic system but i'll still have to pay the monthy fee, even if i dont use it, and yet another said they plan to condemn the tanks and fill them with sand.
as far as the water i was told by several wonks that the water from my well can be used for "outdoor use only", I suppose they dont want me drinking my pure deep spakling well water... :rolleyes:

I wouldnt NOT say to a buyer about the sewer and water, most folks see that as a blessing, and it probably will add a few $$$ to the value of the place.

I figured I would list it with a relator and let them do it but i dunno even how to go about doing that, or what evil tricks they pull to watch out for.
one of my neighbors actually works for a company that installs sewage system, and he told me from the sound of them when he was at the twp meeting they havent a clue to what they are geting into. the roads around here go from 1350 feet up on my ridge to the deepest holes of ravines where the roads run. I was told they would need so many pumping stations it would be cost prohibitive. I found out this afternoon they are stopping the line 1/4 mile down the road and cutting ditches thru yards and hayfields....
this may die before it starts but I think like all groups with too much cash and not enough thinking, they will build it first and hammer out the problems later.
I dont wanna be here when the sewers back up. :haha:
whats the first step to getting a relator to sell your property and what should I be wary of?

This is one of the most rediculous things I think I've heard about. There MUST be a way to have your property "Grandfathered in".

My blood pressure is rising on this... it's infuriating.

not so far as I have inquired. the guy down the road has a nice piece of property with a creek runing thru it, well not anymore, thanks to "eminent domain" seizure, the creek is being dug out and the sewage line put in its place. He has to resurvey his place into 2 lots, because the sewage commies claim that 50' wide swath as "access road" and he cannot dig, garden or even drive his tractor over it, they said "biuld a bridge".
he was suing them i have to go see how that one turned out.

"the rights of the individual shall be protected so long as they do not conflict with the state"

they claim the septic tanks polute the groudwater, and the wells depleate the municipal wells where the city water comes from.

they ignore the run off from the farms around here... for now.
lots of people lose land here by eminent domain... my best bud has a lumber yard and the city/boro run a sewer line past his store and took 25 feet off his edge and a full 50 feet of road frontage. he has to move the enterance gate and 700 feet of cyclone fence, PLUS this because of the way the building is set will leave himn absolutely no way to access the rear of the store.
needless to say he is P.O.ed
whole farms dissapear around here for "wetland projects"... to benifit geese no one hunts. now we are up to our armpits in canada geese every year. (good if you like 200 geese in your cornfields when they want an on the road snack.)

just another reason to leave, at some point some developer will want this ridge abd these farms and I will dissapear along with the farms, empty handed.

all the wild land around the local resuvior just got bulldozed for "waterfront homes"... it used to be a nice place.. trees.. heron, wonderful fishing, all kinds of wildlife. now its a dirt field with paved roads.

progress isnt always a good thing.

numb, I am in a very similar situation, except I am no where near as civilized. I'da bolted long ago. Anyway, call a realtor you trust, or someone you know recommends. He will go over your place, check local sales, and taxes, etc. and come up with a range of values for your place. I am having severe trouble with some outlanders that moved in here, and want to get out asap. The realtor told me what the lowest price that I absolutely should not go under, as well as the averages, etc. He told me that price in case I wanted to sell by the end of the month, just cut my losses and go. You have a lot of control over how the place is marketted too. I wanted no signs and no identifiers to end up in the local paper. To me, whatever commission he ends up with is worth it to me in saved aggravation.

PS- there is still raw land here in the TN Appalchians. I mean to find me another piece and never move again. And I mean it this time. Just like I did ten years ago when I came here.

Seems to me if your planning on selling out, water and sewage would add a good bit of value to your property. Just a thought.

yes it would shrek, if I had the cash to pay for it, i would most definitely push them to do it tootsweet...
but I dont and i wanted to sell out before they put the lein on my place UNLESS the water and sewage hookups would increse the value MORE than the amount of the liens... that IS something to think about.
A few bucks more to play with... :dance:

tennesee.. I have been there it is a beautiful place...i had forgotten till you just mentioned it.. the smokey mountains are a sight to behold in the summer.
thanks, i will expand my search to there also!

but I was ALMOST done with the place too... darnit all.

Get the realitor to only show to people who are pre-qualified and that will slow the (It's Sunday I'm bored and want to see other peoples homes people).


mikell

Gov't + Land = Bad...
 

I learned from my mother a couple years ago that her family used to live on and farm several hundred acres in MO... this lasted for several decades, until the late 50's when the Gov't tried to buy it from them for a tiny portion of its worth. Even a good price would not do, as the family loved their lives there.

DOCNR eventually condemed the land as unservicable, and claimed it would be turned into a bird santuary. Very soon after, Great grandfather/mother died, then shortly after grandfather drank himself to death, and grandmother died (broken heart). The bird santuary? It never happened... DOCNR -immediately- rented the land out to farm.

It just kills me that my family was torn apart, and their legacy taken away, so a Gov't agency could rent out our land. My life would be SO different, today, otherwise.

News Show/Magazines?
 

Have you contacted any media outlets? I think I'd send letters/emails to every local station, DateLine, 20/20, FoxNew's O'Reilly Factor, Fox "the Pulse". A nice little public outcry never hurts.

You could try listing it on some barter boards. Perhaps someone somewhere would just love to trade their place for yours. I think you should be prepared to hire a lawyer to do the paperwork though.

didnt think of a trade.. thats good.
as for contacting mdia? its such a common thing around here it isnt news. it raises peoples anger for a day but it fades fast.

you live in a communist state, and you rent the land from the gov.
dont pay the retax, they take it.
dont take the money offered as compensation, they take it.

and after they take it they can do as they like, even sell it to a developer to "improve" the land. (housing projects).
america practices every plank of communism set down to distingus "what a communist society is"
that statement makes people very angry at you when you say it but its true... read the commie manifesto and read what the 10 planks of communism IS. we practice every one.

be that as it may, the media is as interested in eminent domain as they are in yesterdays news. they got thier shock value out of it now its just old. Sometimes you can win in court, but who has a half million to prove they are right and loose everything anyway?

I made the mistake 20 yrs ago in NOT taking in several factors such as local growth, real estate potential, the proximity to a large city and an international airport.. i thought this stuff close buy was good. I didnt realize that stuff creeps like fungus and before you know it your inthe thick of it.
I can remember when I had to give direction to my house, years ago I used to just say "oh its out in the sticks youll never find it follow me"
now all I say id the road name and most people say "oh i know that road, I use it all the time to go (wherever)."
Whan I was young and had a great job with a great pay and more than enough cash to pay outright for whatever I wanted, i screwed up.. now I'm older and the jobs are not so good and the future is not so bright and I have only my paid in full mistake here.
youth is wasted on the youth... isnt it true?

At least I have a barganing chip, thats more than most folks end up with, so I'm glad about that.
time to teach an old dog one more new trick thats all.

trade... very good, I like that possibility!!

Don't worry - the last time the government did something like this, we all got promised lots of acres on a nice shiny new reservation land....oh...never mind....

Let me guess... Lancaster county? or York?

It's very common to both charge you a monthly fee/hookup charges when sewer/water comes to an area, until you finally hook up, as an "incentive", if you catch my drift. If you don't already have it, watch soon for mandatory garbage service (actually taxes if you precycle and recycle and have no trash). Also, cities add all sorts of taxes to these "services" too. This unfortunately is what happens when people fighting for "property owners' rights" don't realize that they are fighting for many of these people to sell out for big money to developers. When houses are crowded on so many small lots, it is inevitable that eventually you have to get sewer, unless you have strict requirements on lot sizes, which anyone hoping to sell out to a developer later on down the road does not want.

I don't know what you're looking for in a buyer as far as finances, but I know that if you go with VA or FHA you will have to hook up if the line is in the street at your cost--in the loan requirements. You probably will have to disclose the lines coming in, and no smart buyer will take on that expense, even with a conventional loan.

For some, the sewer will be great--no worrying about what you dump down your sink, you can do loads of laundry all day, etc. For others, especially if you are very water conscious, it is more of a tax, because you are not getting your money's worth. $25+ a month whether you flush the toilet or not. If your water is on at the house, the sewer will be charged, even if you don't use any water that month. That's why I think these "services" are more like taxes, imho. They totally discourage being environmentally responsible.

Is the sewer coming in what is really spurring your thought to move, or is it just in addition to other things? Could you turn the place into a rental?

it could be used as rentals. Ive gone out of my way to aviod credit, loans debts and the like, so the likely hood of my qualifying for a lmortgage is slim. the sewage is a spur, as is the monthly driveby cleanliness inspections, and the coming housing plans. all the farms aroundhere are under a "clean and green" system where they can only sell it in 10 acre parcals, or 2 acre parcals , the limit being one sale per year. if they pay the tax fines, they can break with the clean&green restrictions and sell in any lot size wanted. IF I could find a seller who will privately finance some land, I would rent these and use that to pay the new place off...
I'd rather sell it, and buy outright, I used to rent one of these houses it was a nightmare..
I DO have family memeber who would rent them but I am really spooky about doing business with family. something always goes wrong.
so far you have posted several very interesting possibilities thansk everyone! keep it coming.

no lady, washington county in the sw corner... growing up fast.

Maybe you would come out ahead financially if you did have your property divided into two parcels. If you then sold off half first, you would have some cash to work with.

It's a shame to put so much work into your own place and then have all this happen!

This post really deppresses me! It goes to show just how far our govmt has gone towards socialism. I don't know what to say, except to get a good lawyer & FIGHT, or just get out with whatever you can.

If you want progress to stay away from you (developers), remember that developers usually start by buying the highest (in elevation) property first. For those 'pretty views' those yuppies just gotta have. If someone else already owns them, many times, they will move on.

If you can relocate to a place where others are already established on the tops of the hills, developers should stay away, especially if the road serving them leads to a dead end, or is excessively winding or difficult to negotiate.

I think that 'eminent domain' is used a little too casually nowadays - your story about the sewage line needing a 50 foot right of way is pretty standard stuff. Many petroleum companies will bulldoze a 100 foot wide line - for a six inch diameter pipe. :mad:

Ridiculous. I hope you find your property.

I would urge you to do some checking with the local municipality about your options here. Many towns, cities, etc. have certain guidelines they must meet before they can legally assess your property and place a lien on your property. It has become unpopular in recent years to charge in like bullies and take your property without adequate compensation and alternatives. You can't stop progress, but you may have some options. Eminent domain usually involves the acquisition of easements in front of your property for the main lines. These must be purchased, if they go onto your land. And assessing your property is sometimes allowed only if your property is enhanced in value to an equal degree. And this is not always the case - water and sewer does not necessarily increase the value of an improved property. Talk to the engineer in charge of the project, or to a local attorney if necessary, one who is familiar with local real estate codes and rules. Many will explain the local laws to you for free. Good luck.

Something I forgot to add to the above post - If you find out that you are out of options, and you intend to sell it, do a little homework. Find a realtor familiar with your neighborhood; try to get some recommendations from neighbors, or just look for their signs in the area. Call them, and let them tell you what they intend to do to sell your property for a fair price. For a typical 6% commission, a good broker will list your property in the local MLS, run some ads, etc. And guide you through the closing process in order to make sure you are treated fairly. One trick to look out for - some unscrupulous agents will give you a "lowball" market analysis (free), in order to get a quick sale of your property. They tell you what they think it is worth - and they may not be exactly accurate. My advice is to spend $300-$400 and get an independent state certified appraiser to give you an appraisal. He has no interest in the property or potential sale. Again, find one familiar with your area. The agent/broker can use this appraisal in his marketing plan. It is typical to then list the property for a little above the appraised value, then negotiate a final price closer to the real market value.

they are coming in from behind the houses, down the hill thru my cousins property and to the road going down the hollow, so frontage isnt being used...

fighting sounds great... Id have to sell both houses just to win , lawyers aint free. I know Ive sued before... you know why lawyers wear 500 dollar suits? because you help buy it for em. Good sentiment, the good fight, but I dont need ruined in the process of proving myself right.

The best I can do is keep improving, modernizing and prettying up till I have to commit or blow. at least the improvements will help the selling.

I just rewired one house with all new 100 amp service (small house) and next week the electric heat system goes in. right now its heated with wood totally...that gets cold if you forget to get up and stoke the fire!
in the spring both houses get repainted. if nothing else happens I'll be 60 bucks poorer every month(the pooping fee, each house=120 total per month.. I know, who can poop 120 bucks worth?) and have much nicer houses!
the rental thing is sounding good... might by an RV and go gypsy.

here's my two bits
 

When I lived in FL, my ex lived on an unpaved road in the county. Right off of a main thoroghfare. They got all the tenants together and fought the thing, but nobody would lift a finger to take the time until they realized that it would raise their property taxes so much %. That got them.

They went to the planning meetings and fought it until they backed down. See it doesn't just affect you, it affects everybody on the road you live on. It isn't the monthly water/sewage fees that scares them, it's the increased property taxes that puts a fright into them.

They went door to door until they got enough support to raise a noise. How many people in your area will this affect, tax wise?

oh, most all the people think its the best thing since the flush toilet hit town.. only a few of us on the road actually are agaist it. the guy down the road built a new house and when he put in his sand mound, he also made a connect up so when the pipe came he was ready.
they want their values up, and MOST here dont give a hoot about a tax raise... they seem to think it will make the area "better".
the taxes here are so low, if they did double them, it still wouldnt be a big deal. I pay about 600 a year total. Thats peanuts for most folks with a 2 income house and a gas pig SUV and a volvo in the driveway.
The thing about yuppies is, they have too much money to care about "tomorrow".
Most on the road signed the petition to get the sewage run in.
I'm just out voted, thats all. An outdated lifestyle with an unpopular view.
thats ok... there are greener pastures, my horses deserve more room anyhow!

Fighting and Attorney Fees
 

What you have here is a classic constitutional issue. Many times, laws about suing for your constitutional rights will include a provision that if you win, the loser (gubmint) has to pay your attorney fees. Talk to a lawyer NOW. He'd rather have the gubmint pay than you!!

Numb--
Where is Pa are you? I just put an offer in on a place near Chambersburg-------Cashtown----and the sewer is going in this spring across the road. I got acrage and an 1865 log, brick and frame house with barns , chicken houses, and land for my sheep and a future fiber shop in the detached kitchen.

The sewer going in makes our buy 2x better in 2 years. We win. Right now the place has a holding tank that musr be pumped every 6 weeks are 110 a pump.
We are out from town a good 15 miles and no houses around us, horses across the street.

I am in WV now and can tell you some places to go here, but I am afraid progress is not to be denied!!! I hate it.

Definitely call a realtor---find a man you can trust...and I mean man....sorry ladies, ad I am one, but up there real estate, especially farms is a mans world. If you are near the area I am going to in Pa, I will put you onto a good agent who can be trusted.

Also, go to the county, get the facts not gossip and do the research about land values near you.......you might be very surpriesed at what your property is worth now.

Good luck

Carly, had to laugh at that, though I know where you're coming from. Real Estate is definitely one career that gender has nothing to do with as far as being a good agent or a bad one. Surely there are agents who specialize in selling Farms per se, as opposed to dealing in just regular homes, and if possible you would want to get one. But selling property is selling property--if you are only looking at people who want a *real* farm (as opposed to anyone who will pay your asking price), but you need to sell very badly, you might have your property on the market for such a long time that it causes you to miss your dream property. Maybe someone who would like your property is not in the least interested in farming, but they do want land around them for privacy. There are many ways to market properties to appeal to more than one kind of buyer.

I hate to say this, but if they're running sewers to farm country, then the value of the property is no longer as a real working farm, and you're now looking at essentially suburbia, just with bigger lots. Even if you (I mean Comfortablynumb here) haven't done so, people will be looking at it as something to subdivide now that the sewer is in. For some buyers, the "farm" aspect will actually reduce the value somewhat, as they have to factor in clean up, building removal, etc.