Food, Inc

StaceyS · #21 04/23/10, 08:50 AM

Laura - if you have netflix, they have it online.

ET1 SS · #22 04/23/10, 09:06 AM

We attempted to produce as much of our own food as we could for years. However my career and our constant transferred kept us form becoming very good at it.

Now as a retiree, living in a forest, we are doing much better at producing nearly all of our food.

I recommend it to everyone.

timfromohio · #23 04/23/10, 09:07 AM

Geo - we didn't "wash" meat in ammonia 50 years ago as part of the processing. I work as a research engineer - use of the same ammonia in my lab requires a multitude of safety restrictions, but we can use the same chemical to clean meat allowing for more lax handling standards?

ksfarmer - just curious which point I made is your sarcasm directed at?

timfromohio · #24 04/23/10, 09:07 AM

Laura - library should have it as well, but there's probably a big waiting list.

Wendy · #25 04/23/10, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Only one thing irritated me about that movie though - the family they profiled who claimed that they had to eat fast food b/c healthy food was too expensive. They showed the family blow $13 on a garbage fast food dinner. Sorry, but I am certain I could take that $13 into a grocery store and get the ingredients to make a very healthy and tasty meal (with enough for leftovers) - it would require actually cooking with raw ingredients which might take some time and planning, but them acting as though they couldn't afford to eat healthy is nonsense.

I believe she also stated she did not have enough time to cook most days. I think that is one of the largest problems. Years ago most wives were home & had the time to cook meals from scratch. Today in the keep up with the Jones' world, a lot of wives are also working out. I still wager if most actually figured out their expenses & then their wages, they would find they aren't earning near as much as they think. They would also be able to save a lot of dollars by cooking from scratch, growing a garden, etc. For some reason people think they have to actually see a check with their name on it to feel like they are earning money. I count the dollars I save us by doing our own gardening, canning, milking, butchering, etc. as my income. Not actually getting a check, but what I save us is a huge amount & should be looked at as such.

Forerunner · #26 04/23/10, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Locally grown foods are fresher and good for the local economy. It is something everyone should strive for. But everyone's situation is different.

Most people do not have the time or ability to search out the truth. Movies like Mike Moore's slanted half truths, that one about Income tax being illegal and now Food, Inc. just confuse people. Even the truth, when shown out of context, cropped and worst case examples shown as if it is the norm, becomes lies.

I hope we can promote vegetable gardens and locally grown beef, CSAs and Farmer's Markets, without making an industry that we know very little about into the boogy man.

Quite frankly, I think we have bigger concerns than Food Inc. Has anyone seen the unemployment map showing how this country is shutting down? How about the world population showing that at the current birth rate Europe and the US will be Muslim in about 25 years?

We can do a lot more about our respective local food situations than we'll ever do about the cause or results of what unemployment maps may represent.

Forerunner · #27 04/23/10, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timfromohio

ksfarmer - just curious which point I made is your sarcasm directed at?

Me, too. I didn't see where that was called for.

sirquack · #28 04/23/10, 10:11 AM

I find it funny that people use the "not enough time" excuse to name make home cooked, nutritious meals for their families. My wife and I both work full time, we are also both very active in our off work hours with physical activities that we both enjoy.
An average day, we get up at 6 am, get to work at 7, get off at 3:30 and home at 4 pm. We cook, eat and are back on the road by 5:30 for our work out. Depending on the day, we head back home by 8-8:30. When we get home, dishes, a little quality time and tending to the yard needs. This happens 4-5 nights a week. We also keep pretty busy on weekends as well.
I can count on one hand the number of meals we eat outside the home in a month.
The people who use the 'not enough time' excuse are just not prioritizing their work. Yes it takes time to plan meals, yest it takes time to tend to the garden. But we eat pretty well for a small investment in seeds and gardening supplies every year.

ksfarmer · #29 04/23/10, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timfromohio

ksfarmer - just curious which point I made is your sarcasm directed at?

Several points, most notably: turn a cow out with a choice of grass or corn , either gluten, growing stalks, or grain, and see which she will eat first.,
I also get tired of the old cliche about farmers and AC in tractors and combines. Would you choose to work in an lab or office with no AC or heat? Why this thinking that farmers should use the same equipment and methods we used 50 years ago? And I might add, I've never seen an unmanned tractor, they may exist but certainly not around here. GPS is most used to more accurately place seed and chemicals to maximise production . Thus cutting down on excess chemical use.

Forerunner · #30 04/23/10, 10:18 AM

There simply must be a gentler and more considerate way for farmers and those who are not to share information.

timfromohio · #31 04/23/10, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksfarmer

Several points, most notably: turn a cow out with a choice of grass or corn , either gluten, growing stalks, or grain, and see which she will eat first.,
I also get tired of the old cliche about farmers and AC in tractors and combines. Would you choose to work in an lab or office with no AC or heat? Why this thinking that farmers should use the same equipment and methods we used 50 years ago? And I might add, I've never seen an unmanned tractor, they may exist but certainly not around here. GPS is most used to more accurately place seed and chemicals to maximise production . Thus cutting down on excess chemical use.

I base my cow statements on the farmer I buy beef from and from my grandfather who raised them. Granted, they both raise (or raised in the case of my grandfather) a very small number of cows relative to the large, corporate farms of today. I have no problem with an AC-equipped tractor if you really want one and can pay for one. Take on debt to have one just do engage in the agricultural equivalent of keeping up with the Jone's and I'll start pointing my finger.

In all honesty, I think that farmers have buy and large been sold a bill of goods. I think that the future lies in much smaller, diversified farms.

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #32 04/23/10, 10:34 AM

to raise your own broilers if done a dozen at a time a 4x8 chicken tractor moved around a city lot is adiquate we have a fenced yard we actualy have what would be 2 lots we have garden on most of one i house the chickens over night in a large wire dog kennel inside may littel 8x8 foot green house and let them roam the yard and free range and feed all day then i put some more feed in and water in the kennel at night when it starts to get dark they all go in and i close the door or actualy my 5 year old did it last night and the 6 year old the night before.
then i let them out in the morning and feed them again
currently with the feed i have purchased and the cost of the chicks and shipping i have 3.60 in each bird at completion , i can't do it at my house btu a freind and i do runs of broilers in a garden shed and 2000 square foot fenced chicken yard 100 at a time we end up with about 2.50 in each bird at completion

now the basic equiptment most of it can be made from buckets and such feed trays and waterers but even at that a startup is under 20 dollars if purchasing new at the store for small scale

i did build a whiz bang chicken plucker last year total cost was about 500 dollars and while my first run of 100 broilers didn't exactly cover that expence it will be around for many years and was a huge labor saver

there is a hatchery near water town wisconsin that if you buy thier chicks at about 1.15 each lets you borrow thier plucker at slaughter time

i think plucker co-ops are somthing we are going to see more of and i am willing to rent mine out for a weekend.

i have a cusin who takes his in pays somthing like 2.30 each for proccessing at twin cities packing near beloit wi .

i would deffinitly thing that a co-op group would be a great idea for lots of local food things , the hands of may makes the work load lighter , and equiptment can be shared and such

canning dys at local church kitchens are a great idea , buy in bulk form a local producer and can in season

i am also a fan of storage foods that need little or no refrigeration or that keep well , Potatoes , turnips , parsnips , rutabaga , carrots , beets , onions and squash
whether you decide to buy grocey store meat or not , reducing your meat intake to 2-3 times a week is a real money saver.

i know that the american farmer is not the enemy , corprate greed is the enemy , bad buisiness practaces are the enemy. and the continued stupifying or planned dumbing down of the populace , the beliefe that the consumer/constituent is to stupid to understand so there for should be kept in the dark.
and possably the chineese goverment/industrial complex and chineese farmer is the enemy
i will leave the mexica illeagal imigrants out of it for now as they are more or less unforunat pauns caught in the crossfire between wanting a better life for thier families , their goverments corruption and greed and our nations courprrate greed and neglect for humans coupled with our goverment officials greed , and coruption.

Curtis B · #33 04/23/10, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timfromohio

In all honesty, I think that farmers have buy and large been sold a bill of goods. I think that the future lies in much smaller, diversified farms.

I think the problem lies with the big cities. There probably isn't enough room around them for smaller farms to produce for that many people, for those of us not living in them it is different. Don't get me wrong, I too believe in diversity on the farm. I will not claim to know how on crop producing farms, but I have oftem wondered why you mostly see dairy farms, producing nothing but milk. Beef farmers, nothing but beef, sheep ranches, nothing but sheep, poultry, nothing but chickens or turkeys. It doesn't take much to add a little diversity and most likely money, but most are reluctant to due to not knowing, lazyness, finances, or all of the above. Things can be done different and more profitable, some members on this forum have proved it, but it takes a long time for people set in their ways to come around.

ErinP · #34 04/23/10, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Unfortunately, it's perfect world vs real world.

Not everyone can spend $15 for a pasture raised broiler, or $9/lb for grass fed ground beef. They don't have room for a garden. Forget raising any animals They just need to feed their families, as best as they can, for as little money as they can.

Everyone who raises animals know how difficult the economics can be and large scale producers are the the gun to do more with less, if they want to stay in business.

Is the "natural" way to raise animals better? Sure. Will the natural way keep everyone fed? No.

I disagree.

First said, my perspective: I'm a fourth generation farmer (though we actually ranch) in the States, and my family was farming in Germany before that. I've lived almost my entire life in Nebraska, either in corn country or the cow/calf of the Sandhills.
My dad's brothers raised hogs on family sized operations (outdoor with indoor shelter, not the mega-barns you see now!) until the hog market collapsed in the late 90s.

To start with, we do NOT need CAFOs. The argument is always that that's the only way to feed the millions of Americans an affordable product and I think the change of the hog market is a perfect illustration that no, it's not.
A mere decade ago, hogs were raised on family operations all over the US. But the rise of corporate farms that had the power to manipulate the markets literally drove most of them out of business. They couldn't compete.
But, prior to that, we DID have enough pork for the market. It's not that it was somehow unsustainable being raised in outdoor pens, it's just that it was a few cents higher than the pork raised in CAFOs.

Another example is beef CAFOs. We don't NEED to raise beef in feedlots. Other countries have long raised beef on grass only. Australia is a perfect example. It's only within the recent past that they started adopting the US model of finishing on grain. (and as most of us know, this is primarily a palatability issue, not some kind of required step in the process)

Take feedlots out of the equation and suddenly we free up billions of tons of corn for other uses. That much less grain needing produced can now let our yields drop a smidge and produce them more responsibly. (I hate this time of year. Everything stinks of anhydrous!!)
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I think the film was spot-on with regards to the fact that subsidies lead to cheap, crappy food. (Though the argument can easily be made that milk subsidies are a good one!)
Why not subsidize veggies?? Why make it so a Big Mac is cheaper than a head of broccoli?
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The food-handling aspect is downright disturbing. (I already knew most of it, though, having lived most of my life within 100 miles of a major IBP, now Tyson, packing plant.) The meat handling, immigrant labor, danger, etc. All of that is pretty well known.
There's a reason you'll find very few beef and pork producers who eat meat from the grocery store. In fact, it's usually a "We ran out of meat in the freezer and I had to suck it up and get a little from the store! *said with a "bleach" face*
The ammonia bath, OTOH, I did not know. Yikes!!
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And while I knew Monsanto was a 400lb gorilla in the bean market, I didn't realize they essentially CONTROL the market.
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Watching Food Inc on Nebraska's public TV station, they had a three-producer panel respond-- A feedlot owner, a family-sized diversified, conventional farmer and a natural milk producer.

When asked to respond to various facets of the video, no one answered the questions!! Several times a couple of them said it wasn't accurate, but no one actually gave examples...

(And my ranch-manager husband pointed out that the feedlot operator's arguments came almost word for word out of a Drover's magazine's response to the video. lol Which also, didn't really refute the points of the film, btw)

ErinP · #35 04/23/10, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis B

Beef farmers, nothing but beef, sheep ranches, nothing but sheep,

Just as an FYI, many of us who ranch do so because that's all that can be done in the area. It's not money or laziness. (There's actually a lot MORE money to be made in farming than there is in cow/calf!)

The Nebraska Sandhills is a perfect example. You really can't farm sand. At least, not without using a boatload of chemicals because of course, there are those who DO.
But really, cattle production is the best thing to do with this area. It's a grazing land, afterall. Except for a few more trees, the Sandhills look like they always have; wild prairie. And what does wild prairie need to remain healthy? Grazing.

ErinP · #36 04/23/10, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksfarmer

Several points, most notably: turn a cow out with a choice of grass or corn , either gluten, growing stalks, or grain, and see which she will eat first.,

My kids'll pick Twinkies over cauliflower every time, too. No one is arguing palatability.
They're arguing what is best for the animal's natural growth and production.

Curtis B · #37 04/23/10, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

Just as an FYI, many of us who ranch do so because that's all that can be done in the area. It's not money or laziness. (There's actually a lot MORE money to be made in farming than there is in cow/calf!)

The Nebraska Sandhills is a perfect example. You really can't farm sand. At least, not without using a boatload of chemicals because of course, there are those who DO.
But really, cattle production is the best thing to do with this area. It's a grazing land, afterall. Except for a few more trees, the Sandhills look like they always have; wild prairie. And what does wild prairie need to remain healthy? Grazing.

I either misstated or you misunderstood. What I was meaning was why not raise sheep or goats with your cattle. Why couldn't you throw a pasture poultry house for a 6-9 months out of the year. I know your area well, I grew up near Hays and traveled to CO regularly. I just believe in most cases (I said most, not all) you could add one or more species, and do better. And yes seing the big irrigation rigs set up for the crop farmers in W Kansas almost makes me sick, especially knowing the status of the aquifer out there.

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #38 04/23/10, 11:17 AM

i think the not enough time excuse fals flat on it's face when they say oh did you see lost last night or do you belive that so and so on american idol
i like to sit a watch a little bube tube (grandmas words) ocationaly,but the average is aroudn 4 hours a day so if i am watching less than 1 a lot of sombodies are making up for those of us who watch occationaly , seldom or never

meal planning does take time but there are so many things that can be made in a crock pot
my home canned meat i can have drop buiscuts and gravy in 20 minutes start to finish i can barly drive to McDonalds order and get back in 20 minutes and it's under 2 miles.

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #39 04/23/10, 11:38 AM

any one know the feed value of hay vs corn and anual tonage per acer of each

hay = 3 cuttings most years even here in wisconsin
corn = 1 crop anually

hay puts nitrogen in the soil , corn takes it faster than almost any other crop

hay is planted every 3-5 years corn every year

hay prevents erosion corn - does little to help if not cause more erosion form addtional tilling

arabian knight · #40 04/23/10, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Unfortunately, it's perfect world vs real world.

Not everyone can spend $15 for a pasture raised broiler, or $9/lb. for grass fed ground beef. They don't have room for a garden. Forget raising any animals They just need to feed their families, as best as they can, for as little money as they can.

Everyone who raises animals know how difficult the economics can be and large scale producers are the the gun to do more with less, if they want to stay in business.

Is the "natural" way to raise animals better? Sure. Will the natural way keep everyone fed? No.

So true the way this country is now with over 300+_ million pop. and the amount of things they are exported to help feed others around the world, this country will not and can not go back 50 years ago in doing things.
This huge farms are run like a large factory, and that is the way of the future, so they can handle the amount of animals and or acreage.
Heck one dairy farm right here in WI. is going to double their size from 4500 to close to 9,000 Animals~!
So even in WI. the farms are getting huge like in the Southwest and Western States.
Some even have "Robotic" milkers, those are neat. all done by a robot. No human to mess things up.
One place in Indiana has 5 "barns" all equipped with a Turn Table for milking One Revolution the cow is milked and off, with no stress what so ever on the animal.
And as people have headed to the city over the years and WANT store bought easy to fix quick meals, they are not going to change as more and more people will generate to the city and closer to work because of energy prices, especially when gas goes up again to close to 4. They can and will not be able to "Live The Country Life" and still work in the city.