Bad Amish Loggers

Bret4207 · #21 04/14/10, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big rockpile

Ok I see where this is going.I put Amish because they do most the Logging here at this time.

This Amish stopped had Lug Wrench in their Van he let me use.

big rockpile

So are they Amish or ar you just assuming they're Amish? No Amish from our area drives anything but a horse. Maybe you ought to check and see if they're Amish, Mennonite or a bunch of wannabes with beards that tell people they're Amish. We have them up here too.

Amish are just like anybody else- good, bad and freakin retards that are a waste of air and space. Take everyone on a individual level instead of grouping them and you'll do a lot better in life.

big rockpile · #22 04/14/10, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret4207

So are they Amish or ar you just assuming they're Amish? No Amish from our area drives anything but a horse. Maybe you ought to check and see if they're Amish, Mennonite or a bunch of wannabes with beards that tell people they're Amish. We have them up here too.

Amish are just like anybody else- good, bad and freakin retards that are a waste of air and space. Take everyone on a individual level instead of grouping them and you'll do a lot better in life.

Yes their Amish.We have Amish and Mennonites their beliefs are just opposit of what most think here.Our Mennonite are Horse and Buggy when we first moved here I asked one if they were Amish and he told me No they are Old Order Mennonite but they work for the Amish because they have Vehicals to get around with Construction Crews.

I've dealt with both around the state.

big rockpile

Navotifarm · #23 04/15/10, 12:44 AM

Bret, no reason to get all snarly because of the category of Amish and start chastising because people are not dealt with as "individuals." In dealing with individuals there are still classifications to sort them into. If I think of Amish, you are correct, I would expect him (I don't know any female loggers) to not have rubber tires on his wheels, to only use horses, to have certain genetic, environmental and religious programming and to use buttons on his clothing. No zippers! As a logger he would probably have no training in silvaculture because they are only in school through age 16 and its their kind of school.
Beyond these basics there are deviations as to character, ethics, morals, ability, etc where the person is an individual.
I am having terrible problems with a logger right now. Mine happens to be black and cannot read. He was desperate for money so I made a very favorable deal. For him. He made me a lot of promises he apparently (from my experience after the events) he never had any intention of keeping. Loggers as a group get very little money in return for heavy investments in equipment plUs skills fewer and fewer people these days can or will develop. It seems they develop skills in seeking out the best trees and cutting them when they are supposed to be cuutting pulpwood.
When you look at an "individual" to judge whether he will meet your criterion for getting the job done that fits your pictures, you need a set of stable data to measure him against. Part of that stable data is who he declares himself to be. If he says he is Amish, that gives you a set to compare him against. If he's driving a van, not a horse, then is he Amish? Actually?he might be, but... Or except for the exceptions.
The point being, who is best to honestly cut the trees wanted to be cut and leave standing, undamaged, the trees you want to keep? Who can do this and provide you with the best profit margin? You are right about individuals but won't you grant that there are classes of people to sort through first before you get to individuals?

big rockpile · #24 04/15/10, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

Bret, no reason to get all snarly because of the category of Amish and start chastising because people are not dealt with as "individuals." In dealing with individuals there are still classifications to sort them into. If I think of Amish, you are correct, I would expect him (I don't know any female loggers) to not have rubber tires on his wheels, to only use horses, to have certain genetic, environmental and religious programming and to use buttons on his clothing. No zippers! As a logger he would probably have no training in silvaculture because they are only in school through age 16 and its their kind of school.
Beyond these basics there are deviations as to character, ethics, morals, ability, etc where the person is an individual.
I am having terrible problems with a logger right now. Mine happens to be black and cannot read. He was desperate for money so I made a very favorable deal. For him. He made me a lot of promises he apparently (from my experience after the events) he never had any intention of keeping. Loggers as a group get very little money in return for heavy investments in equipment plUs skills fewer and fewer people these days can or will develop. It seems they develop skills in seeking out the best trees and cutting them when they are supposed to be cuutting pulpwood.
When you look at an "individual" to judge whether he will meet your criterion for getting the job done that fits your pictures, you need a set of stable data to measure him against. Part of that stable data is who he declares himself to be. If he says he is Amish, that gives you a set to compare him against. If he's driving a van, not a horse, then is he Amish? Actually?he might be, but... Or except for the exceptions.
The point being, who is best to honestly cut the trees wanted to be cut and leave standing, undamaged, the trees you want to keep? Who can do this and provide you with the best profit margin? You are right about individuals but won't you grant that there are classes of people to sort through first before you get to individuals?

Ok they only go to school here until they are 14,soon as they have their birthday they are out.

Most around here have known the Timber Business all their life because thats all there has been.But they are turning towards Truck Farming now.

I was raised in a Logging Home.My first wife was Native American who's Family were Loggers.Me I have cut Pulpwood in the past.So yes I know some on Logging.

I did know a Logger years ago back when they was spraying Timber to kill it.You wasn't suppose to use the Trees for Lumber but you guessed it he was cutting them hauling them to the Sawmill but he also was living with a Black Woman,had no Plates on his Vehicals and was Snarring Deer.So he played by his own rules and I don't believe I would trust him to cut my timber either.

big rockpile

Ken Scharabok · #25 04/15/10, 07:45 AM

Like the others have said, go look at their past couple of jobs and speak with the property owners.

Like a lot of businesses, problem is economy of scale. You likely don't have enough timber to attract a larger operator with modern, efficient equipment. More likely a one-pickup crew with a cutter, skid operator and loader/hauler.

When you watch Ax Men and similar programs note how often the owners complains about barely breaking even on most jobs. A breakdown in a single piece of equipment can shut the entire site down for hours, if not days. And then there is the weather.

Call the State Forester for your regional and ask if they will do a timber cruise for you. In some places they will even mark the trees to be taken out. Some will also mark veneer-quality, which bring a premium price.

I suspect one aspect which will be looked at is if the area has been fenced before. Embedded wire and staples can quickly damage an expensive sawblade. If they have to cut off and discard the lower 4-6' it can greatly reduce the value of that particular tree.

Until maybe twenty years ago ago most of what was cut locally was turned into railroad ties, with side trimmings being somewhat a bonus. Now they also cut for pulp. For example, area of about 70 acres down the road was cut last year for the higher quality trees. Now they are going back in after the pulp-grade one. I suspect it is a fill-in between higher grade cutting. Difference is a grow-back period of say 50 years rather than 20.

I know the cutter. At least second generation loggers and his father and two uncles own a small sawmill. He said he is now cutting tracts his father did 20-30 years ago.

Sounds almost like you could mark your own trees and then cut firewood for a long time from the tops left behind.

Bret4207 · #26 04/15/10, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big rockpile

Ok they only go to school here until they are 14,soon as they have their birthday they are out.

Most around here have known the Timber Business all their life because thats all there has been.But they are turning towards Truck Farming now.

I was raised in a Logging Home.My first wife was Native American who's Family were Loggers.Me I have cut Pulpwood in the past.So yes I know some on Logging.

I did know a Logger years ago back when they was spraying Timber to kill it.You wasn't suppose to use the Trees for Lumber but you guessed it he was cutting them hauling them to the Sawmill but he also was living with a Black Woman,had no Plates on his Vehicals and was Snarring Deer.So he played by his own rules and I don't believe I would trust him to cut my timber either.

big rockpile

Okay, enough. Maybe I am "snarly" but bigoted garbage like this is too much.

Shamrock76 · #27 04/15/10, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret4207

Okay, enough. Maybe I am "snarly" but bigoted garbage like this is too much.

I agree with you Bret. I find the information on this site a fantastic resource but unlike others I frequent, this place has a general feeling of intolerance and hostility. I can't tell you how many times I've typed out a lengthy reply to some of the nonsense that people spout here only to just delete it, because it really does no good. This is the good ole' boy's club and people like us are the minority.

big rockpile · #28 04/15/10, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

Like the others have said, go look at their past couple of jobs and speak with the property owners.

Like a lot of businesses, problem is economy of scale. You likely don't have enough timber to attract a larger operator with modern, efficient equipment. More likely a one-pickup crew with a cutter, skid operator and loader/hauler.

When you watch Ax Men and similar programs note how often the owners complains about barely breaking even on most jobs. A breakdown in a single piece of equipment can shut the entire site down for hours, if not days. And then there is the weather.

Call the State Forester for your regional and ask if they will do a timber cruise for you. In some places they will even mark the trees to be taken out. Some will also mark veneer-quality, which bring a premium price.

I suspect one aspect which will be looked at is if the area has been fenced before. Embedded wire and staples can quickly damage an expensive sawblade. If they have to cut off and discard the lower 4-6' it can greatly reduce the value of that particular tree.

Until maybe twenty years ago ago most of what was cut locally was turned into railroad ties, with side trimmings being somewhat a bonus. Now they also cut for pulp. For example, area of about 70 acres down the road was cut last year for the higher quality trees. Now they are going back in after the pulp-grade one. I suspect it is a fill-in between higher grade cutting. Difference is a grow-back period of say 50 years rather than 20.

I know the cutter. At least second generation loggers and his father and two uncles own a small sawmill. He said he is now cutting tracts his father did 20-30 years ago.

Sounds almost like you could mark your own trees and then cut firewood for a long time from the tops left behind.

The Guy that is cutting mine is cutting for RR Ties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bret4207

Okay, enough. Maybe I am "snarly" but bigoted garbage like this is too much.

Hey don't get your Hackels all Ruffled.Back then I had never seen a Black and Whites and Blacks just didn't mix the same as me and my first Wife.

But seeing this Guy with his woman did spark my curiousity as to relationships with Black women which I have enjoyed in the past.

So take what I said how ever you want to no skin of my nose.

OH!

big rockpile

billooo2 · #29 04/15/10, 02:44 PM

Around here.....the different orders of Amish have different rules. Some are allowed to use motorized equipment and electricity for their work, but not for their "personal" use.
For example, the Amish person that I bought this property from does some excavating. He pays someone to haul the bulldozer, etc. to the job site. And he hires a driver to take him to the job site, and take him home each evening.
There are a lot of Amish "furniture factories" in this area. They use electricity in the workshop, but not in their houses.
What I chuckle at.......an elderly Amish couple driving their horse and buggy down the road.......while talking on their cell phones!!!!

Another "ironic" scene.......I went to a grazing conference. One of the speakers was an Amish farmer. He was using a power point presentation (obviously, there was a computer involved).......and part of his presentation was showing how he has modified some equipment (I think that it as a "chopper") .....powered it with a gasoline engine on a forecart.....that was, in turn pulled by a team of horses!!! Picture that!!......beard, "plain" clothes, showing horse equipment......with a microphone and power point presentation!!!!!

hunter63 · #30 04/15/10, 04:16 PM

B-2, I hear ya,
My cabin was built by an Amish crew, no elect, but didn't have a problem with gas or diesel.
Didn't have a problem with elect. either if it was YOUR elect.

I saw more equipment that started out being elect, converted to diesel power, even a table saw w/3 hp Honda gas motor.

The guy (boss) owned a new GMC pick-up, but had some one else drive him and the crew around.
The local group thought he was getting a little too "English", so made a rule that you had to be 21 years old to ride in a rubber tired vehicle, so cut his crew in half.
He sold out amd moved about 60 miles away, different rules.

Always wondered how you could have an Amish web site.

Ed Norman · #31 04/15/10, 04:30 PM

A friend was working on a car of some black bumper Amish. The car had a factory panel over the radio hole. He removed the panel to work on the wiring, and behind it, he found a radio hidden down in there, all wired up and tuned to the local station.

I've always enjoyed dealing with them all over the country, no matter which particular name and belief they go by.

big rockpile · #32 04/15/10, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter63

B-2, I hear ya,
My cabin was built by an Amish crew, no elect, but didn't have a problem with gas or diesel.
Didn't have a problem with elect. either if it was YOUR elect.

I saw more equipment that started out being elect, converted to diesel power, even a table saw w/3 hp Honda gas motor.

The guy (boss) owned a new GMC pick-up, but had some one else drive him and the crew around.
The local group thought he was getting a little too "English", so made a rule that you had to be 21 years old to ride in a rubber tired vehicle, so cut his crew in half.
He sold out amd moved about 60 miles away, different rules.

Always wondered how you could have an Amish web site.

Our Mennonites use Air Power Tools to do their Carpenter Work.There was some Amish that was advertising on the T.V. here.My wife went to the Mennonites about advertising their goods on the internet.One just laughed at her said pushing it an't you.

big rockpile