Property owners liability questions...

PA has one liability relief law involving hunters allowed on your property. It came about after an errant shot injured a pregnant lady in her home on an adjoining property. Since it passed the landowner can't be held liable over hunting accidents...everything else is still wide open...

Our motorcycle club has property for member use and to hold two racing events every year. During the 80's we had alot of new members who were into motorcross racing. They pushed to build a motorcross course at this property and the club added the track and promoted a sanctioned event. A professional rider was killed during the first event.

We can still hold hillclimbs and club 'field meets' at the property. The club's liability insurance covers the members at the closed events and the hillclimb sanction has specific liability insurance. They cannot get insurance for another motorcross. No insurance carrier will provide insurance. Another promoter was able to get coverage and a sanction and leased the property but the shadow of the first motorcross limited the number of riders who raced and the promotor gave up...

People riding ATVs elsewhere in this township became a nusiance and the township passed an ordenance against random riding of ATVs and dirtbikes. We are allowed to ride only during preperation for and during the hillclimbs and during club sponsored field meets. We used to be able to use the property anytime but now have to abide by the townships ordenances in order to have the two racing events without additional hassle beyond the police traditionally stopping alot of the riders attending the races looking for DUI and expired inspections. As good neighbors we even allow the fire company to use the property for a circus fundraiser...didn't get our riding activities grandfathered!

Please remind your nephew that ATVs are the leading accidental cause of deaths in children...If he isn't additionally insured [you too if you are holding the note] this child shouldn't be riding on this property. Even if he always wears a helmet and other protective equipment...His activities will attract other ATVs as well...not a good thing!

"Quote"

Or maybe his old uncle is a paranoid nut?

I'm an old paranoid nut but I still listen to Uncle! He's still a little older than me.

The guy I let hunt during deer season just pulled out his deer shack and tree stand last week, at my request. I was quite relieved, and I won't let him do that again this year. Whether I am liable for something that happens on my property or not, I still have to pay for my defense if I get sued. And, after thinking about it most of the winter after the deer season was long over, I just don't want the nuisance of it again. Didn't think I'd feel that way but I did.
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You know, I do hold the note for the property. Hadn't even thought about it from that perspective. He is the deeded property owner. I am just the "bank" in the transaction.

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Stush

If his ambulance chaser considers you to have 'deeper pockets' you will have problems. It is in your best interest to step in and insist on being covered by the parent's insurance...or put an end to this.

The two things that I have the hardest time getting him to understand are that:

1) "Friends" do sue other "friends". It happens everyday. I don't think he sees the distinction between a friend and an acquaintance. Friends are a rare commodity. Acquaintances are easy to find, but tend to be tough to locate when you need something...

2) It doesn't even matter if you "win" a lawsuit. You can come out on the winning end, but the costs that you expend to defend yourself can bankrupt you.

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Stush

The nephew clearly doesn't understand liability issues. You, as the bank, should do the same thing a real bank would do, and require nephew to buy a liability policy that covers YOU. I couldn't borrow from a bank without a policy, could you? Send him a notorized letter that explains that your interests must be protected and that his decision to allow a child to ride an ATV on property that he still owes you money on places your interests and in fact your entire estate at risk. That is unacceptable.

Then, I would also personally send a notorized letter to the neighbor (keeping a notorized copy for myself) demanding that he provide a certificate of insurance listing you as an additional named insured, and they are not to enter the property until they have provided it. I don't know if this would offer protection if they enter the property anyway and the kid gets hurt or killed, but I would sure have it to provide for a legal defense if necessary.

Right now your foolish nephew is making bad decisions that are putting your hard earned dollars at risk, and he is doing it because YOU LET HIM. STOP LETTING HIM!

Act like a bank, and retain control until you are paid in full and your name is completely off title. If he refuses, call the loan due. I personally would be sure that your sibling that is his parent understands why you are doing this, and show them this thread if necessary. Perhaps they can talk sense into their kid.

The beauty of demanding the liability policy from the nephew is that he needs to be responsible for the property anyway. What if it isn't a friend, but rather a stranger who hurts themselves on your property and sues? That is a risk every land owner faces.

The beauty of demanding a certificate of insurance from the neighbor listing you as an additional named insured is that NO insurance company would ever issue such a certificate for the purpose of allowing a small child to ride an ATV on someone else's land. The insurance company will refuse to issue it, and they will be the ones telling their client (the neighbor) that it aint gonna happen. This will only happen if the neighbor is truthful about his intent with the insurance company.

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I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

He actually does carry a liability policy on the property and I am a named insured because I am the mortgage holder. That much is in place, but your average homeowners policy isn't likely to cover something of this nature.

In the meantime, I think that I have him convinced that this isn't a good idea.

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Stush

His problem is that he wants to be a nice guy. Has no idea that most people are not always so nice.

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Stush