Our tax dollars at work..

blooba · #21 04/04/10, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Remember the [population in the USA is over 300 Million way different then back in the 40's, you just can't have the kind of burning that people would do back then now. There are way more buildings, way more structors to get caught up in things. So the burning days like are for the most party done. You still can burn, your fields in certain areas with permits etc. and by notifying the fire department etc. But for the most part you just can't go out, and "control burn" too risky in many areas for many reasons, and it is a good law to have in place at this point in time.

I say once again we should outlaw stupidity instead of outlawing fires. In a city of manicured lawns sure there's no reason for fires BUT that still doesnt give the government the right to ban fires and allow all the debris to build up on the unmanicured areas to be caught by lightning or other natural causes. Forest fires were happening before human was on the planet. They happen for a reason. Did you know that some evergreens can't germinate without fire?

Yes the FD should get called out for a uncontrolled burn that is endangering property BUT if we had more controlled burns their would be less uncontrolled burns. Thats the wonders of being a human being ,having control of things! Although some people can't handle having control so they want their gooberment to control them.

arabian knight · #22 04/04/10, 10:20 AM

We are not talking about a situation like yours. You got caught in the middle of a city ordinance, and thinking you would be "grandfathered in" just because the house is so old, and not making a phone call to find out the facts. We are how ever talking about the country where people now have built homes all over the countryside hill tops side hills whatever, we are talking about setting fire to the land without getting the permits and letting the fire debt and others involved in what you are doing, that is for them most part in the 21st century is not being responsible.

Pamela · #23 04/04/10, 10:24 AM

Upnorthlady, we don't live too far from you. I live in Ottertail, south of Perham. The burn ban is to start tomorrow and they said even if you have a permit, you can not burn till the burn ban is over. It did rain here last night for a bit. Not enough though....

blooba · #24 04/04/10, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

We are not talking about a situation like yours. You got caught in the middle of a city ordinance, and thinking you would be "grandfathered in" just because the house is so old, and not making a phone call to find out the facts. We are how ever talking about the country where people now have built homes all over the countryside hill tops side hills whatever, we are talking about setting fire to the land without getting the permits and letting the fire debt and others involved in what you are doing, that is for them most part in the 21st century is not being responsible.

Since when should the government be allowed to control what YOU do on YOUR property? Unless it is endangering other people or property THEY ARE NOT allowed to.

Guess you support the building codes also?
How about government controlled energy consumption?

Where does it stop? Stupid people do stupid things outlawing it will not fix their stupidity.

arabian knight · #25 04/04/10, 10:40 AM

And that coming from a person that has already admitted to "living Under The Radar"?
That in itself is being sneaky about things. Don't look for sympathy from to many people.

tinknal · #26 04/04/10, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn

I don't fully understand the concept but until you can burn, look to the Black Hills- apparently the pyramidal piles of deadwood are set to burn fast and then the forest will extinguish the fire instead of burning long enough to kill and burn the living trees. So gather your brush in one or multiple spots- as you do- and if your neighbor sets your place on fire your brush won't help burn your house down as much, and when burn ban is over it's ready.

I am talking about vast acreages of canary grass and cattails swamp, not brush piles.

2 days after they burn they turn green. The unburned areas will take weeks to green up.

Beeman · #27 04/04/10, 03:58 PM

Sounds like the farmers aren't doing their job. Also sounds like they split up their farms for the big money of housing developments over farming. I guess those sweet old farmers of your youth are to blame.

tinknal · #28 04/04/10, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

Sounds like the farmers aren't doing their job. Also sounds like they split up their farms for the big money of housing developments over farming. I guess those sweet old farmers of your youth are to blame.

Nope, still big tracts of open land. The powers that be just want to control what isn't theirs.

bowdonkey · #29 04/05/10, 05:38 AM

In MN you can burn, it does require a permit. The permit is needed so we know which are the landowner burns versus the true wildfire. It's expensive to have us show up. Though not as expensive as setting a fire and having it get away. You are still responsible for the fire whether you have a permit or not. Burning is a valued tool not only for the farmer but the DNR. Wildlife use it to keep certain habitats healthy. I myself do a small burn on my place for wildlife every year. Despite mowing a big windbreak, and having a pumpcan on hand, I've still had a few scares. I know what you mean about govt interference. I work alot of fires every spring that are permit burns that got away. So when MN puts a burn ban on it's because fuel moistures are low and weather conditions are such that they increase the chance of wildfire. It's like a speed limit on a highway, the way I see it. It is private property but I gurantee your homeowners insurance isn't high enough to cover some fires I've been on. I hate laws like this too but I also would not like someone 3 miles away burning down my place.

big rockpile · #30 04/05/10, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowdonkey

In MN you can burn, it does require a permit. The permit is needed so we know which are the landowner burns versus the true wildfire. It's expensive to have us show up. Though not as expensive as setting a fire and having it get away. You are still responsible for the fire whether you have a permit or not. Burning is a valued tool not only for the farmer but the DNR. Wildlife use it to keep certain habitats healthy. I myself do a small burn on my place for wildlife every year. Despite mowing a big windbreak, and having a pumpcan on hand, I've still had a few scares. I know what you mean about govt interference. I work alot of fires every spring that are permit burns that got away. So when MN puts a burn ban on it's because fuel moistures are low and weather conditions are such that they increase the chance of wildfire. It's like a speed limit on a highway, the way I see it. It is private property but I gurantee your homeowners insurance isn't high enough to cover some fires I've been on. I hate laws like this too but I also would not like someone 3 miles away burning down my place.

Around here they fly over to see if it is contained before sending anyone out.Then if someone shoots the Plane down

like my neighbore did they send a bunch more out.

big rockpile

blooba · #31 04/05/10, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowdonkey

In MN you can burn, it does require a permit. The permit is needed so we know which are the landowner burns versus the true wildfire. It's expensive to have us show up. Though not as expensive as setting a fire and having it get away. You are still responsible for the fire whether you have a permit or not. Burning is a valued tool not only for the farmer but the DNR. Wildlife use it to keep certain habitats healthy. I myself do a small burn on my place for wildlife every year. Despite mowing a big windbreak, and having a pumpcan on hand, I've still had a few scares. I know what you mean about govt interference. I work alot of fires every spring that are permit burns that got away. So when MN puts a burn ban on it's because fuel moistures are low and weather conditions are such that they increase the chance of wildfire. It's like a speed limit on a highway, the way I see it. It is private property but I gurantee your homeowners insurance isn't high enough to cover some fires I've been on. I hate laws like this too but I also would not like someone 3 miles away burning down my place.

Yea I can see having a burn ban in place at times but I also know it is abused and put in place too many times. When there is a 10+yr drought with everything dead and strong winds sure but they issue them multiple times a year in some areas sometimes lasting months.

So are you saying if someone has a permit within a mile or so of your smoke showing call you wont respond? I don't believe that. Around here they respond just like any other call then locate the source and ask if he has a permit.

Those permits maybe justified in your mind for big fires BUT they get stricter and stricter and before you know it your barging into someones house to put out their woodstove. Once a law is on the books they don't need your permission to make it stricter.

Randy Rooster · #32 04/05/10, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone-a-milkin

People are scared of fire. OOOh, fire!! Run, run away and call somebody to stop it.
Even if it is not gonna hurt anything. Even though it is for the good of the land. Even if it keeps the fuels from building up to dangerous levels. People are trained that fire is bad. They do not understand that seasonal burning is a natural and healthy part of land management. Good luck educating them.

they did it here

bowdonkey · #33 04/06/10, 05:58 AM

I was just on a fire yesterday started by 2 boys playing with matches. 200+ acres in 1 1/2 hrs with a helicopter, 3 J-5's, a bunch of ground pounders and a couple VFD's trying to put it out.. That's how much it burned while we fought this thing. When we landed it was 30-40 acres. We saved 2 cabins by the way. RP we have detection up all during fire season, that's what called this in. Messing with firefighters by the way is a Federal offence.

**Shrek** · #34 04/06/10, 07:27 AM

Burn permits here are free but each burn must be authorized by the forestry service and VFD scheduled to oversee the burn as a controlled burn training exercise.

As long as you get the permit, all the services are free. If you dont get a permit you pay high dollar rate for the forestry brush team and the VFD plus a citation and fine.

With the fire tower less than a mile away from my place, I have even called the tower if my hickory smoker got to pumping out too much smoke up through the oak canopy a couple times to keep them from dispatching a VFD smoke chaser.

blooba · #35 04/06/10, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowdonkey

RP we have detection up all during fire season, that's what called this in. Messing with firefighters by the way is a Federal offence.

Thats cool you saved the cabins but how is it a federal offense? I can understand the plane with FAA and all but how would the local
VFD be a federal offense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrek

I have even called the tower if my hickory smoker got to pumping out too much smoke up through the oak canopy a couple times to keep them from dispatching a VFD smoke chaser.

With it that close I don't blame ya for warning them. Isn't it nice to report your every action to the gooberment? Before you know it they will want you to get a permit each and every time you take a dump. (Environmental Hazardous Waste Permit)

Bret4207 · #36 04/06/10, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blooba

Thats cool you saved the cabins but how is it a federal offense? I can understand the plane with FAA and all but how would the local
VFD be a federal offense?

It's not, unless it's on Federal lands or they are otherwise operating under Federal oversight. This is just an example of the, "I'm a fire FIGHTER and nobody screws with me!" attitude. Locally we call them "Blue Light Heroes". Most of them outgrow it after a few years, some don't.

Bret4207 · #37 04/06/10, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blooba

Thats cool you saved the cabins but how is it a federal offense? I can understand the plane with FAA and all but how would the local
VFD be a federal offense?

It's not, unless it's on Federal lands or they are otherwise operating under Federal oversight. This is just an example of the, "I'm a fire FIGHTER and nobody screws with me!" attitude. Locally we call them "Blue Light Heroes". Most of them outgrow it after a few years, some don't.

Each State has differing laws on interfering with fire operations. Check your local laws before taking anything read here as gospel.

big rockpile · #38 04/06/10, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowdonkey

I was just on a fire yesterday started by 2 boys playing with matches. 200+ acres in 1 1/2 hrs with a helicopter, 3 J-5's, a bunch of ground pounders and a couple VFD's trying to put it out.. That's how much it burned while we fought this thing. When we landed it was 30-40 acres. We saved 2 cabins by the way. RP we have detection up all during fire season, that's what called this in. Messing with firefighters by the way is a Federal offence.

We suspect the neighbor that shot the plane down set a 150 acre fire the other day.It almost caught one cabin on fire and there was several houses up on the ridge.

Had another neighbor put a Fire fighter in the Hospital.He paid restitution until the guy died couple years ago.

big rock pile

tiffnzacsmom · #39 04/06/10, 08:22 AM

All of you who want to burn and the heck with firefighters please stay out of WV and PA, I happen to love my family members who are VFD and will jump out of bed at all hours of the day or night or race off after working doubles at work to protect your property after you decided to burn brush and it got out of hand. Burn ban and restrictions are in place for a reason, you may want to risk your life and property but your neighbor may want to keep theirs. There is a reason the fire departments were one of the first organizations we had in this country, Ben Franklin was a smart man.

blooba · #40 04/06/10, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiffnzacsmom

All of you who want to burn and the heck with firefighters please stay out of WV and PA, I happen to love my family members who are VFD and will jump out of bed at all hours of the day or night or race off after working doubles at work to protect your property after you decided to burn brush and it got out of hand. Burn ban and restrictions are in place for a reason, you may want to risk your life and property but your neighbor may want to keep theirs. There is a reason the fire departments were one of the first organizations we had in this country, Ben Franklin was a smart man.

I don't think a single one of us is down on firefighters in general. They are a great thing to have BUT they are beginning to overstep their bounds just like all the other government officials.

A burn that gets out of control does happen although it very rarely happens IF you are smart about it and understand fire.

Thats the problem there are too many that aren't smart about it and don't understand fire BUT that doesn't mean we should outlaw it.

Should we outlaw driving while on the cell phone?
Should we outlaw eating while driving?
Should we outlaw crossing the street?
Should we outlaw cooking in a stove?
Should we outlaw shaving?

If you can't do it safely be smart enough to realize that and don't do it.

Those are all things were you could get killed IF you are stupid about it. We should outlaw stupidity if anything. Thats the thing!!