Ask Yourself...CAN THE GRID FALL?

diane5000 · #21 03/31/10, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

Tsk-tsk, stealing peoples words is theft. Make it clear that you're quoting and the words that you have in your message are not your own.

Just to avoid any confusion, foxtrapper, the site I was referring to in my post is my site and the words there are Warren's and he lets me use them. Sorry for any misperception about that.

The notion behind the diatribe is downright thoughtless imo, and fails to grasp some of the most basic notions of gridding. It's a net, and a net is a far more stable way to carry a load than dangling it by a single string. You can break many fibers in a net and still have a useable net. THAT is the strength of a net. That is why we went to a net as a nation. Power can be shunted around to where it's needed the most at any given moment, and damaged areas can be isolated.

I think what you are describing here is really a web and not a net. A web works as you describe and is the basis of the way the internet functions. Unfortunately, the power grid does not work as well. All it takes is a catastrophic failure at a single power node and half the nation goes dark, as was experienced a few years ago in the northeastern states and parts of Canada. The thing about relying on that "single string" is that it is my string and my responsibility to maintain it. If it fails only I suffer and I have only myself to blame.

And, as with any net, be it a fishing net, a cargo net or a power net, it can indeed be badly damaged and completely fail. There never was an unconditional guarantee that no failures would ever happen with a net. Only a fool would believe otherwise.

I suggest that it is foolish for any of us to rely on governments or corporations who own and regulate the grid to have our best interests at heart when making decisions that will affect us. Much better to rely on ourselves to provide basic food, shelter, power and water.

Indeed, I do expect my power to work. I like living on the net, as do most people. It's quite convenient to expect the light bulb to work when I flip a switch. As opposed to firing up the generator, only after I've gone and gotten the gasoline, unless I decide to distill my own, and did I actually mine the oar to make the still, that brewed the fuel, etc etc etc. As some point, none of us are truly self sufficient. We all rely on others, just some are more willing to admit it than others. Though truly some are far more self sufficient than others.

For the sake of convenience you give up something much more valuable...your self-reliance. That said, I am not suggesting that we don't rely on others for many things, just not the basic things. It is a good feeling to know that, whatever happens in this crazy world, we have our own food, water, power and shelter. "...some are far more self sufficient than others." I'll be one of those, thanks.

texican · #22 03/31/10, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

I'm good. I'll stay with "the grid". I'm fond of modern life for the most part.

Besides, if it happens to "fail" horrendeously, which is unlikely, do those whose consider their lives "off grid", actually think their lives will continue as usual?

Dream on.

I'm on the grid, but was off, for 13 or so years.... kept all my equipment.

IF the grid goes down, my lifestyle will continue closer to what it is now, compared to someone who is totally grid dependent...

If you're talking about the consequences of a grid down (long time would be a SHTF scenario... down for good would be a TEOTWAWKI) situation, and all of the turmoil that would arise... a person who's prepared for such a scenario will also fare better than one who has not prepared.

I live in Texas. Our Grid is independent from the regional grids... so if a cascading event like struck the NE a few years back were to happen near TX, it wouldn't necessarily shut down the TX grid.

I can say, it'd take something serious (widespread earthquakes, volcanoes, terrorist activities) to take down the natural gas 'grid'... most of the compressor stations that 'push' the gas down the line run completely off of gas.... which is available on site. Of course, 'my' well would be shut in immediately... don't want any 'free' gas going off to strangers, without recompense.

For any that don't know... we have a sub forum just for such discussions... the Survival and Emergency Preparedness Forum.

manygoatsnmore · #23 04/01/10, 03:01 AM

Yup, check out the S&EP site. Lots of good threads on how to cope with any and all of the grids going down. Common sense stuff like a good water filter and a source of water, potable or not, storing food and seeds for a rainy day, learning now how to heat or cool your home against the day when electricity may not be available, and much, much more. We don't bite...much! Angie keeps us in line fairly well, lol.

foxtrapper · #24 04/01/10, 05:56 AM

Quote:

I think what you are describing here is really a web and not a net. A web works as you describe and is the basis of the way the internet functions. Unfortunately, the power grid does not work as well. All it takes is a catastrophic failure at a single power node and half the nation goes dark, as was experienced a few years ago in the northeastern states and parts of Canada.

No, a web and a net are the same thing. The power grid does not go down nearly as easily as you describe or seem to believe. Squirrels run over the wire, creating shorts all the time. That's why they are described by many in the power industry as free roaming short circuits. Similarly falling tree limbs. Get across the lines, short them for a few seconds, maybe trip a few breakers, and then fall off. At most, a few people are out of power until things are reset. The grid itself does not fail, just portions. That's the nature of a grid or web or net system.

No system works perfectly, and nets do fail. Even fishing nets and cargo nets do fail catastrophically and completely. Sometimes even the internet has had catastrophic failures. But that is rare and unusual. Normally, the damage is contained.

diane5000 · #25 04/04/10, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquisimo

Is that your blog, Diane? I remember seeing the garbage can washing machine, maybe on another forum? Did you know that laundry was THE MOST *HATED* CHORE our ancestors did? Back then, you had to wash clothes with a washboard and bucket. It wasn't until 1939 that the modern washing machine came about! And most people likely didn't know about them. It wasn't until the late 1940s, and the onset of suburbia, that every housewife was suddenly demanding a washing machine, a clothes dryer, a dishwasher, and even a blender.

The "experts" in the 1950s were predicting one of two futures: nuclear war and a forced return to the hunter-gatherer life, or a fabulous future in which the need for work would be eliminated and idle people would be getting into trouble. We didn't get the war, but we still work, but our work doesn't have meaning. We push paper in offices.

I don't think that we'll ever get rid of The Grid entirely, but we will have to be less reliant on it. Two people simply can't produce everything they need. There has to be SOME trading, even people in the Middle Ages didn't make 100% of what they had. I personally have been trying to figure out how to get along without a washer and dryer, and electric cooking appliances. I have figured out a way to power the electric skillets and such, and the PC, but I still don't know what to do with the washer and dryer.

Hi there,

Yep, this is my blog, sustainable washing machine and all. Thanks for
the bit of history on the chore of washing clothes.

Diane
http://frombeyondthegrid.com

mudburn · #26 04/04/10, 08:13 PM

Dependence upon the system, whether for electricity, water, food, fuel, federal reserve notes, or whatever, is something I and my family continue to work on reducing and eliminating. Those who truly seek independence will make the sacrifices necessary to realize their dreams, accepting the consequences of cutting the strings of dependence (which we oftentimes think give us freedoms when they actually enslave us). Community with opportunities for shared labor and interdependence is not part of "the grid." I'm still partly "on the grid" although we continue to take steps toward greater independence. It's a matter of time before some serious economic or social "corrections" occur because an unsustainable system cannot perpetuate itself indefinitely. Regardless of when, I believe there is a richness in the life my family has chosen and which we continue to walk ever further into that no "grid-tied" life can ever hope to realize.

mudburn

seedspreader · #27 04/04/10, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

I see rolling blackouts & brownouts coming soon - we are turning our backs on a solid power producer - coal - and we have maxed out hydro power on any type of scale. We are far, far from building any other type of electrical generation. Natural gas does not have near enough infrastructure (pipelines) to handle the ramp-up of electric generation people think it will produce. Solar & wind is cool, but is dependent on the weather, and again we are lacking infrastructure (big big power lines) in the areas where they work best.

Failure? I don't see the Grid failing totally. But it will become less dependable, as we try to use more than is available.

The Tree-Huggers have deemed we should live a poorer life than we used to, and that goes against human nature. So - we are going to have blackouts & such.

--->Paul

Ding ding ding... winner winner chicken dinner.

(This is EXACTLY how 2nd and 3rd world countries operate daily)

geo in mi · #28 04/05/10, 09:15 AM

Ask Yourself...CAN THE GRID FALL?

Yes, and don't touch any wires that are laying on the ground......

(I have to think many, many folks on this forum are quite well prepared, in their own way, for things to come---they just don't advertise it.....)
geo

kritter8888 · #29 04/06/10, 10:40 PM

I do think that the grid will fall and look forward to that day. I think when that day comes it will be a new world. It will make it a survival of the fittest and most prepared. Sorry no more sitting on your but collecting welfare checks.

#30 04/06/10, 10:49 PM

My husband write software for the electrical utility industry. He specializes in Rural Co-op's.

I'm' not worried about the grid going down completely. The biggest problem will be the finances of the electric company. Rate freezes mean fewer lines and equipment being replaced. Big storms come through and it's tougher to get back up fast. Instead of restringing one section they have to put up new poles to replace the ones that were rotted out and blew over in the storm. This is just one example of a local SHTF scenario.

Do we keep supplies for extended power outtages? YES. Do we do it because of the grid failing? NO.

HouseBunnyMomma · #31 04/07/10, 11:02 AM

I agree that it will be a gradual thing. I think that inflation is coming, and as prices rise people won't be able to afford it. If price controls are put in place than things will disappear off shelves. The water on my street went out for a night, it was only one night but it was scary, I didn't have a drop of water. The town fixed the water main, but the town is going broke and eventually they won't be able to fix it any more, or I will go broke and not be able to pay my water bill. In agriculture a nasty disease could get an entire crop of something like corn. The grid has become so homogeneous and fragile that one stiff wind can cause major problems. And even if nothing does happen, then great, you have peace of mind.