Having a time finding a backhoe
 

I have a Massey Ferguson 2615 and I am trying to find a backhoe. I called Woods regarding their BH 90. They recommended a subframe, but don't make one for my tractor because it isn't "popular enough" for them to justify engineering them. So, I went to the dealer I bought my tractor from. They have a 1580 backhoe. I asked about a subframe. They say it should be stable without one.

Now, I have read about really messing up a hitch and/or tractor using the three point mount. I can see from the specs on both that the Woods has a good bit more digging force, which could be why the subframe is recommended. I like it's features though. It has longer reach and I can get a hydraulic thumb. Looking at the Massey, I don't see a thumb option. I had talked to the owner of the dealership this afternoon. He is in his 70s and not a computer user, so I will have to wait until I can talk with is son to find out more about the Massey hoe.

Does anyone know off hand if I can get a thumb (I would like hydraulic) for the Massey, and would I be better off with a subframe even though it isn't seen as necessary? Or if I decide I want to go with the Woods, how hard would it be to find someone to fabricate a subframe for me?

How much is the cost? I happen to know of a fella that has one or two for sale.

Doesn't seem like it would be too much of a trick to build your own 'sub frame'.....it's just a couple hunks of metal that run down underneath and bolt on the engine or somewhere up forward as well as the rear, then the backhoe unit mounts to that. Go take some photos of a Woods unit mounted to any tractor and take some measurements of the steel they used, then visit a local welder if you don't do your own metal fabrication. Just because Woods doesn't make it doesn't mean it can't BE made.....

This firm is located and manufactures in NC and they have a large selection of thumbs.
http://www.excavatorthumb.com/
On a light weight hoe I would rather have a detachable manual thumb as I would not want to limit the weight the hoe can handle by having to carry the thumb all the time.

that's why we didn't get one for our tractor, word is they can do a LOT of damage to a tractor..cheaper to rent the backhoe locally, do all the work in a few days and return it..that's what we did

Thanks for the help. I will look into a detachable manual thumb then. Hadn't thought about the extra weight being an issue, but with a smaller hoe, I see how that could be a potential issue.

I was figuring on having someone fabricate a sub frame for me. I don't have welding equipment. I just need to find someone around here who is going to do quality work. If anyone can recommend someone, I am in Duplin county NC.

Kendall

They make several types of three point hitch backhoes that will fit your tractor. I think that Massey Ferguson makes one. I know that Northern Tools has one that fits your tractor. You can find it on page 50 in their Master catalog (Spring and summer 2010). If you dont have one you can get one by visiting www.Northerntool.com .

The leverage of a backhoe on a farm tractor ends up putting a lot of stress in the middle of the tractor - right about where your feet typically are when you are sitting on the tractor.

Some tractors are built kinda weak right there, only 4-8 bolts running through the cast iron clutch case. Some get real skinny right behind the clutch with just a small cast iron tube in there which can't take the up & down flexing a backhoe puts in that area. Other tractors are built a lot stronger in that area and are no problem.

I'm not familiar with Massey, the dealers all left here back in the '80s, I'd have to go 100 miles to find a 'real' Massey dealer any more. So, I can't say how strong or weak your tractor is.

A subframe pust some metal straps from the rear end of the tractor to the front end of the tractor, beefing up that middle area.

Another issue with a 3pto backhoe is the toplink. A backhoe mounts solid to the top link, using that as the stablizer for the whole downforce. Some top links are also built a little weak for this, can't take the up & down stress of a backhoe on this little area.

--->Paul

get a subframe
 

I have a 35 hp kioti tractor whic is pretty hefty and a woods 7500 backhoe.
With the stresses I've seen the one the subframe I can't imagine what it would do to my three point arms. The subframe links up with the woods front loader to make it go the length of the tractor. There was not a subframe available for my tractor, but woods made one. It's not the most beautiful thing, but it sure is solid. looks to be made from 3/8" slab of steel.

I would seriously concider buying a good used trackhoe. It will free up your tractor ,Is about 100 times stouter and will outdig the backhoe 10 to one.
Right now in the under $10,000 class I think you can buy one use it for a long time and resell it for nearly what you gave.

I have a Sherman backhoe adapted to fit my 9N. Looks kind of funny but it works well. It has it's own hydraulic system that runs off the PTO. Mounted to the frame, not the three point. It will dig around 6-7 feet deep. Takes less than an hour to attach- detach.

I have noticed most of the 3pt backhoes attach so they stick too far back from rear of tractor in my opinion so you get a teeter totter effect. I'd want the weight as close to back of tractor as possible without scrubbing the tires.

And no light duty backhoe attachment is a replacement for a dedicated commercial backhoe, BUT sure beats a shovel digging trenches and such. Some of us just dont have a spare $20k setting around for something that would get only occasional use.

Guess I will find out. I had bought most of an old Davis backhoe attachment some years back. Last fall dragged it out of fencerow and was planning how to make it whole and useful. Needed outriggers/stabilizers. Went to a consignment equipment auction looking for something I could use for outriggers and low and behold bought an entire backhoe attachment, outriggers and all for $250. Nicer shape than my other one except for the bucket. So thats my spring/summer project this year. Instead of mounting it to my MF65, going to drag out an old WC I have and make it the dedicated backhoe tractor. Never going to do anything else with WC anyway, it never even had pto on it. Just need engine enough to run hydraulic pump and move the tractor/backhoe to where I need it then its all hydraulics.

A three point hitch backhoe is not meant to lift the tractor off the ground. All you do is use it so that it doesn't lift the outriggers off the ground by not putting too much down on the bucket. I have use them and have done fine work with them but they are not like the dedicated backhoe and nothing you can do to your tractor will make it like a dedicated backhoe. If you buy a dedicated backhoe you will find that you can move the tractor around by using the bucket. Even if it is mounted on the tractor you will not be able to put all the force they have in the bucket. Some times you need to settle for the best you can and work from their. Of course you will be better buying a track hoe or a large backhoe but sometimes you need to realize that you can do what you can with any equipment.

There are some VERY good trackhoes out there for less than half that. One that you could put 1000 hours on with just regular maintenance.

Now if you can get one of the attachment kinds for that price it make a LOT of sense unfortunately around here they tend to bring 3 to 5 grand and you can buy a good old backhoe for that,

I built a back hoe and it has a sub frame, the frame consists of 2 6" channels and bolts up to the loader frame in front, I made two brackets that mate to the sub frame that are always on the tractor and you back over it, use the out riggers to raise it up to place and then the bucket to teeter the frame on to raise the front up to bolt in place it is actual only held on to the tractor by two 1/2 bolts, as the Axel brackets mate with the sub frame, and yes there is a lot of stress on the attaching point of the sub frame to the back hoe, (I have had to reinforce that area),
I do not think I would be comfortable using a backhoe with out a sub frame unless it was a very small back hoe,

Thanks for all of the info everyone. I have been calling different manufacturers and dealers, and have finally concluded the Massey is the way I am likely going. The dealer quoted me on a Massey cb20. The specs are as good as the others I as researching or close to it. None of the ones I have researched at this point offer a subframe option. I am going to try it on the 3 point, if it moves the tractor around too much, I am going to find someone who can weld to build me a subframe. I wish I knew more about welding myself, but even if I did, I don't have the necessary equipment.

I would like to go the route of getting a dedicated hoe, but they seem to be hard to find around here. I can find super huge ones that are old for a decent price, but I really don't need anything that big, nor do I want it to take up space on my property right now. The smaller ones are tending to run in the $10-20K range. The Massey dealer is the same one I got the tractor from, and he has quoted me a discounted price of $6900, free pick up, installation, and delivery. I feel like that is a pretty good deal.

Kendall

http://myrtlebeach.craigslist.org/grd/1631509847.html
http://norfolk.craigslist.org/grd/1612850637.html
http://richmond.craigslist.org/grd/1622883862.html
http://myrtlebeach.craigslist.org/for/1629029067.html Yep some bigones and some minis in there all under $10,000

Find yourself an older backhoe..

My Massey Ferguson has a model 400 backhoe and a model 200 front end loader on a MF 2200. It is a 1967 and I got it for the cost of hauling it away. My dad and I spent $800 dollars replacing the hoses and some of the electrical wiring and just over $100 to have it hauled away. Now about 3 years later it still is a nice piece of equipment to have around when needed..

If you look around at some of the contractors and such they always have older equipment for sale. Yes some of them will need lots of work, but if you are careful and check he one out, you should be able to find a decent one for a good price..

kendall j

Not a sales pitch but I am in NC and I have a surplus 3 point back hoe that I need to get the storage space back. I have owned this unit for a number of years and the original teeth on the bucket are still like new. There is some rust on the shafts of the hydraulic cylinders that do the leveling of the tractor. I will sell the unit cheap ($1500)if you are interested.

Agmantoo, that's a cheap hoe!

--->Paul

It sounds like a good deal to me,maybe even worth making a trip to NC for!

I bought the hoe as "new old stock with outdoor storage exposure" off a dealer for as best as I can remember for $2875. I mounted it on a IH 3 point hitch tractor and used it sparingly to install a few culverts and to plant shrubs for the wife. I do not like to misrepresent items that I sell so I am repeating ....some of the hydraulic cylinder shafts has rust pitting on them. Non of the cylinders were leaking the last time I used the hoe. Shortly after buying it, it got a deal on a construction machine that was better able to handle the heavy work that I was doing. Since then the hoe has just sat under a shed. I want the storage space and I want to stop the wife from asking what do I plan on doing with that machine I do not use. I have too many of these type of things. My drive is a checkvalve...stuff comes in and little goes out! : )

Boy! do I understand that!:D