Looking for help on living "rural"

Sorry, I don't personally have anyone I've done business with, but a quick search on the internet might help. If I talk to the neighbors any time soon, I'll ask them who they used. -Catherine

__________________
Our Diversified Stock Portfolio: cows and calves, alpacas, horses, pigs, chickens, goats, sheep, cats ... and a couple of dogs...
http://springvalleyfarm.4mg.com

Of your choices I would go with number 2. Get the land. Worry about the house as you go along.

That said, it sounds to me like you're not really sure you even want to live rurally. The fact that you were considering .63 acres in a suburban neighborhood says a LOT.

Do you happen to know anyone who does live rurally that might be able to put you to work in exchange for some temporary room and board? What you are saying you want, the chickens and garden and woods and all that comes with that just doesn't jive with the other thing you say you DON'T want -- the work. It's work. Plain and simple. There is ALWAYS something to be repaired, upgraded, tweaked, taken care of. Dirt roads and driveways are not nearly as kind to the cleanliness of ... well, everything as is the sweepable concrete of the city. The raccoons don't care that you have to get up early for work in the morning, they're still going to try to bust into your chicken coop at 3am and you're still going to have to go out there shoot and dispose of them. The weeds in the garden pay no attention to the fact that you're on a family vacation -- when you return, they will have swallowed your vegetable plants whole. Depending on the area power services can be less reliable and they take longer to get them back on when they go out -- because there's not as many people out there waiting on them. Not sure about the winter weather there, but if you're rural and you get a big snow you'll be the last person to be plowed out. The list goes on and on. I'm not trying to discourage you. We LOVE our rural life and I whole heartedly believe it's a very good thing. But it's not for everyone and from what you've said... it may just not be for you. I'd hate to see you buy a property in the country and regret it.

The one thing we came to realize with the offer we recently made is that we probably won't be able to make ourselves go through with any kind of house without acreage. It just felt wrong and every house seems to impart the same feelings for us. So that's why we've decided to explore buying land and going from there to see how that feels to us. Another thing that has really concerned us about the suburb places we've look at so far is price. We'd rather pay off debts and live cheaply. It's one of the reasons we're so keen on shipping container homes and converting them into something really cool.

I'm Mateo's wife. The reason we were looking at suburb housing was because that's what we thought we were "supposed" to do. Basically, "keeping up with the Jones's, and ignore your own dreams." Go with the status quo type thing. But we were wrong. Very wrong. We have come to realize that we don't belong in the city or suburbs at all, but out in the woods with the space to spread out and enjoy God's creation. We have also realized that we don't want to spend a lot of money on a house with a loan (more debt) AND fix up a place nicely just to resell it sometime in the future. But building our own house or fixing up a place on the acreage we want is just fine with us. It all comes with the dream. We realize it will be all work as this happens, and we are so excited thinking about all the work that we'll be doing with OUR land, not the bank's land, kwim?

I hope that makes more sense.

The land is the most important thing. Will it suit your dreams? Think about drainage, views, rockiness, slope, trees, fencing etc. As far as a house goes, think about not what you would ideally like ('cause that ain't likely to happen), but about your minimum requirements. What you absolutely must have. Or think you must have. Then imagine some personal disaster - like you lose that job you're commuting to... Or everything you own is wiped out in the natural disaster of your choice. What then? Starting from ground zero: what do you need?

Start from there, and anything above that is cream.

google dorothy ainsworth, a small gal that built a lovely log home, her story is great.

and yeah, nothing better than working your own place. altho we're really wiped out, today i spent alot of time working in/on our outside area/barn/chicken pen. wow, that is alot of work, but again, its so nice that its OURS. we made it OUR way, perfectly fitted to US. that is a feeling that i cannot fully describe.

That definitely makes sense, sorry for misunderstanding.

I can understand how hard it can be to reconcile what your dream is with what society -- and even our own preconceived notions -- are telling us is right. I myself have had quite the journey to finally accepting that this is what I want and love and that it's okay even if that's not what I ever imagined years ago. Once you get there though, like chewie described, it's a bit surreal.

+1

Before going the raw land route, talk to some people and get some estimates. Go into the raw land idea with both eyes open.

We’re going the same route as Mushcreek; it took us around 5 years of looking off and on to find the right piece of land. We bought 40 raw acres in 2005, paid it off in 2008, and bought another adjoining 40 acres. Didn't really "need" the back 40, but when opportunity knocks.....That will be paid off this AUG, but it set us back on the house. The plan is to pay as we go, so we’re saving for the house and will start construction in 2012 when I have close to 50% to put down. There's no way I wanted to incur $450-500K of debt for what we wanted, but in pieces it’s doable.

The costs for some of the improvements and permits are pretty intimidating. This year we built a 60x40 pole barn and paid cash. It cost a little over $2800 just to run the electric 150 meters from the road, which included a new transformer, pole and meter. We also put in an improved gravel road off the county road and the rock/gravel alone came to $4000, also a $150 permit from the county. Some of the other expenses we’re planning for:

Rural water meter: $4,800 that’s today’s dollars, it’s going up next year.
Running water line: $10,000
Building permit for a 2000-3000 square ft house: $4,000
Road access impact fee: $3800
There’s also another $2000 tied up in inspectors etc.

I don’t even want to think about the septic yet because there’s a good chance we’ll need an “engineered” system.

Then there’s all the “stuff” that’s required to do “anything” with acreage. We started out with a chainsaw, brush cutter, and my pickup. We now have a tractor/loader, brush hog, blade, disc, spreader, 2Btm plow, carry all, trailer, drag harrow another chainsaw, chains, cables, winches etc, and etc.

It all adds up. Building on raw land briefs well, but at least around here it’s expensive. There’s a lot to be said for finding a livable house and fixing it up.

Chuck

__________________
Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

If we were to find land and move there, we'd probably be looking to do something more minimal if possible, at least initially. Composting toilet, etc. Nothing fancy.

I think we've made up our minds to buy a cheaper place in the suburbs while at the same time looking for land up north. We could then save up to pay off debt and begin our building adventure (we really want to use shipping containers if possible). This would ensure we have a place and wouldn't need to stay with relatives while at the same time allowing us to gradually fulfill what we're looking for. Hopefully that's pretty doable. We've calculated that we'd have around $500 residual income per month if we're careful and can put that toward paying off debt/saving.

Yes,Yes,Yes!!!!!! look for forclosures,don't deal with agents.

Really don't think you should buy in suburbs and attempt to save up. NOW is the time to go for it. I say this because what you can't save is TIME. Find acreage with a poor house and start now! It is way too easy to keep putting off waiting for the perfect plan to come into being.

The saying goes something like this; the good plan executed now, is far better than the perfect plan that has yet to be started. I built my own house from a log kit, I had never built anything but a small deck. I learned on the go. My kids LOVED the time, they were toddlers, ran around in bare feet when it was in the 40's outside, learned to haul wood everyday, & so on.

Spend time reading the older threads, and you can gain a lot of great info on what you need to do.

As far as putting in electric and sewer etc. You can buy a lot of the hardware yourself, and pay someone just for their labor to put it in. Some won't do that, keep asking around until you find someone.

I was able to install my own electricity after taking a homeowners test with the state. Might be something similar for you.

__________________
We will meet in the golden city, called the New Jerusalem,
All our pain and all our tears will be no more.....

What type of work would you be looking for? Things are a bit slow right now, but the Duluth area has not been hit as hard at the rest of the country. I would google Duluth News Tribune and look at their job section and see what it available.
As far as building cost go, we are currently getting bids to build a new, energy efficient home. We paid $3000 last year to get power to the place, a well will run us about $5000, septic $6000 and the driveway was $2000 (we share easement access with the county, so we were able to split the costs). These are really low numbers. We are in a lot of sand, so we do not have to have a mound septic system (they run $15 - $20k). I know you will not need a well and septic right away, but chances are you will need one in the future. When you are looking at land call a few well drillers and ask them how deep wells in the area are going. I know of one person who paid $27k for a well because of their elevation and the rock they were sitting on. Same goes for the septic system. If you are in St Louis Co, you will more then likely have to have a mound system. Before you make an offer call or stop in (dress in jeans and a grubby t-shirt, not a suit) the assessor's office and the zoning office of the county. If you are nice enough, they will offer all kinds of information. Also, make sure there is adequate access to the property and ALWAYS get an owner's title ins policy.
What is your timeframe for moving? If it is less then a year, I would suggest (and this is one of the only times I would suggest this) that you find a really cheap place to rent. That way if you found a good job up north, you would be able to up and leave without the stress, hassle and expense of selling a house. I know that the market in the Twin Cities area is brutal right now.

Mateo and baby,

I worked in real estate for 9 years and have dealt with many clients that almost knew what they wanted but couldn't quite pin it down. Before we would go looking at houses, I would send them home, or sit in the office with them, and try to figure some things out.

What I would really suggest is sitting down together and making a rather detailed list of your dream home - size, location, topography, home, heating, outbuildings, livestock you think might possibly want, wheter or not you ever intend to make your living from home, etc. Get as detailed as you can possibly be at this point - the more clearly you can define your vision, the better off you will be. This is, essentially, a buisness plan for your life.

You need to be as clear as possible now to save yourself potential heartache in the future. One thing you are going to have to pay particularly close attention to is local zoning regulations in your eventual place of purchase. Make sure you will be able to have the animals you think you might want someday - even if that day is far away. It's far easier to buy a property zoned for agrucultrual purposes and never buy an animal than it is to try to keep an animal where zoning forbids it.

Do you want to possibly put up a wind turbine at some point? Outdoor wood gasifier (no "boilers" please)? You need to make sure they will be allowed.

Once you have a clear vision, you need to look it over and really decide, if need be, what you can eliminate in order to have what it is really important. If you decide up front, it will help you once that "almost perfect" property comes along. If you already know you are willing to live without the x, y, or z that it doesn't have, it won't be a big heart break.

As many have suggested, I would be more concerned about the land. As they say, they ain't makin' any more of it. A house - or barn, or store, or whatever building may or may not be on it - can always be altered. The land not so much. If you want running water on your property, you can't just install a creek.

Unlike many have suggested, I wouldn't be so quick to abandon working with an agent. If you are (were) swaying back and forth between rural and suburbia, it makes it extremely difficult for an agent to find a property that is a good match for you. There are good agents and not so good agents, but even a good agent will be pulling her hair out working with buyers that don't know what they want. Yes, they are out there to make money - mainly because it's their JOB and most people I know want to make money at their job. (All of these folks that are bashing agents who want to make money, well I suppose they only do charity work and God bless them for it.) But a good agent isn't just trying to sell you a house - if they were, they'd only show you one. A good agent is trying to find the perfect match for what you say you want (another reason you need to know what that is in the first place). A good agent will just as likely advise you away from a property that doesn't meet your critical criteria as they are to steer you towards something that meets it. (I can't tell you how many times I've tried to talk people out of buying houses only to have them come back to me later and tell me they should have listened.)

So my suggestions for working with your agent (other than the obvious of KNOW WHAT YOU WANT):

-Learn what the market is like where you are looking to buy. Is it a "hot" market where things move quickly or do properties linger a while? Good to know because if you have homes that have been sitting a while, you should not rule them out because of price - the sellers are often more negotiable. Also, an agent can often tell you if a newly listed property has been on the market before. Sometimes a home will go from one agency to another to another and, even though the MLS says it's only on the market for 12 days with the current agency, it might in fact have been on the market for a year.

Another good reason to know that state of the market - if you are truly up in the air about things, you might want to have your agent provide you with several properties that you can drive by on your own first. Get a feel for the area they are in, look at them from the road. I can't tell you how many times I jumped through hoops to schedule showings of homes only to pull up to the house to have the buyer tell me they didn't like it and didn't even want to go in. If properties are not flying off the market, and you have the time and inclination to do so without it being a big inconvenience to you, drive by's are a great way to weed out the unacceptable properties.

-Work with an agent from the area to which you want to move. Sometimes this means contracting with more than one agent. You need to be specific with each agent as to what area they will cover. I'm not familiar with the Prior Lake area but "30 minutes from Prior Lake" seems like a rather large net to cast. You will be extremely lucky if you find one agent that knows that whole area well enough. Rather, I would suggest slicing that area up and finding people in each area. You might have one particular local government that is working on an ordinance that might potentially affect what you can do with a property. If you have someone who is from 25 minutes away showing you homes there, they very well may not now what it going on in that community.

You said you are under contract with your current agent until June. I would suggest sitting down with her and talking about the potential of either working with other agents in other areas - possibly with a referral fee to her - or requesting to be released from the contract. If you are running her ragged, she'll probably be happy to agree. On the other hand, she might have some very good agents in other areas that she can refer you to. She might be welcome for the help.

I hope this helps.

Also, someone on this board - I forget her name - bought land with her husband and moved shipping containers onto it. If anyone remembers that thread, maybe we can guide these wonderful folks to it.

__________________
Anne
Give me a sweet home set among the trees,
With friends whose words are ever kind and true.
-Phoebe Carey-

LONE PINE FARM
Barnesville, PA
Boer goats, Angora goats, Eclectic mix of poultry

I agree with getting a good agent. The problem around here is that the purchase price is so small on raw land, the commission isn't all that great and so you end up not being on the top of your agents priority list. Also, there is a lot of FSBO on raw land around this area and those owners do not want to deal with agents.

Thanks, everyone. We'd love to make the move to be more rural right now, but it just doesn't seem feasible with our $10,000 in savings and no job up north. I also just started a new job near the Twin Cities that has been pretty good to me so far. We looked into renting, but couldn't find anything that would accommodate a family of six, two cats, fish, and two guinea pigs. That's why we settled on looking at cheaper homes in the suburbs and buying land up north. We figure it'll be a process to select the land and then build on it, so I think we have some time. I realize the market is crummy as we just spent 2+ years selling our old house in Milwaukee, WI. This is something we feel would best be done in phases rather than take a huge risk all at once. We're definitely not giving up on the dream here, just accommodating our resources as best we can. We'll have a surplus of $500 extra per month once we buy a house, so that can go straight to our dream. :-)

We do like our agent and she's been very accommodating. We've been open with her all along about our goals, so I think she understands. We did suggest only having her help with the house side of things and she seems accommodating as it's outside her area.

If we had more money saved up, we'd make the leap right now. But for now, we need to work with what we have. Something that's been tough for us is that our ideal scenario would be to live up north right now and be self-sufficient, but I don't think that's realistic just yet. So I think we'll need to do this in phases.

Hi Matt,

For us, there are some practical considerations to do with buying land with

a building. It could provide shelter while a new one was being built.When

we looked at our hunt camp home,

we saw what it could become... http://frombeyondthegrid.com/worddont

Diane and Warren

have you checked craigslist..i've posted a lot of properties from Michigan Craigslist for a family looking to move from Michigan..they ranged from $5,000 for some land to $250,000 for a working farm with huge outbuildings and equipement..very nice place..