Neighbor building gate on shared road

I love this thread. Most interesting on here to me (so far) in the few months since I discovered this forum because it is in part what happened to me so I can "really relate" to the challenge.

One thing that was not in place when I bought my land was something that is in place now under zoning laws which is that persons who share a private road for access are required to have a formal maintainance agreement which is filed in the circuit court so it is a form of adjunct to the deed. Many farms are being subdivided with the eventual intent of having the interior roads dedicated to state or county naintainance so they are designed and built to meet higher criteria than mere right of ways or easements which include provision for a width of 50 feet even though it's only on paper and not in actual use.

Presumably the subdivider/seller of this property complied with local code regulations which do not require. A maintainance agreement but under the circumstances it would be a real good idea to work one out. Virginia has the suggested wording but I did a search and other states have wording for private roads also. Yours may be one. Let's hope.

It is very wrong to put metal in a tree because any tree risks ending up in a saw mill or being cut down (or up) with a chain saw. The sawyer can be injured or killed and the saw blade sestroyed.

There are some real hostile suggestions on here. I mentioned this situation to a friend who said that since the tree is yours, cut it down and toss the gate over onto the other guy's property, then cut down any other trees he can fasten gates to. I call this the cromagnon approach but actions speak louder than words. Your neighbor did not give you the courtesy of any polite words. He may respect you if you respond in kind. Sometimes that's the only way to deal with thugs and bullies. I can't do that myself physically or ethically but it is an option offered by the kind of person who could and would do it!

Keep us posted on next events in this fascinating saga!

This may be neither here....nor there....however I wanted to point out that trees do not necessarily die when a piece of metal is inserted therein! We have several trees still standing tall and proud into which something foreign has been inserted. One has a huge metal bolt to which a gate is hooked, another has a long metal straight bolt to which a chain used to dangle....yet another has a hook-loop thing that we have no idea why it is there but the tree is still alive.

My point is that the Tree may still survive and no rash decision should be based upon the suspected soon death of the tree!

I thought about this today when I closed and locked my Gate on the Shared Road.....and I am so very thankful the Gate is still there and no one has complained to have it removed.

Good luck again - I hope it will all work out nicely for everyone.

funny how the tone is different in this thread
How would you handle this ?

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I think that it is very Christian of you to approach this with the expectation that your "neighbor" has no ill intent.

How this situation is resolved could effect your future use of your land and the value of the land you bought. What you might see as an act of understanding or kindness, could bite you hard. Maybe not. I hope not.

But, we have all witnessed situations where people got greedy or took liberties that were not theirs to take. Settling an estate and property line disputes rank right up near the top. Simply giving up your share seldom settles it.

Real life situation: A neighbor, Uno, sold 40 acres to a friend, Jhon, behind his own 40 acres, with an easement road 20 feet wide and 1320 feet long.

John began cutting trees on his new 40 acres. Uno came back and told Jhon that the property line followed the stream, Jhon disagreed, a property line is a straight line. This Section had never been surveyed. A section is about a mile square, some larger, some smaller, many not exactly square. Since a 40 acre parcel is 1/4 of a 1/4 of a section, the entire Section had to be surveyed. It was mostly wooded so "line of sight" paths had to be cut and hacked. First, the section was divided in half, east from west. Then divided again, north and south. That required two miles of "line of sight" clearing. Then, that 1/4 of a section had to be divided, both ways, east and west and north and south. This took another mile of clearing.

The 40 acre property, with no direct road frontage was purchased for $5000. The bill for the survey cost $5000. Jhon had to pay it all, just to prove where his land was.

I owned 40 acres just west of Uno's 40 acres. In the back corner of my 40, there is a survey stake, from Jhon's survey. There wasn't any stake up front marking the property line for Uno and I.

One winter day, I was cutting trees on my property, well inside where I figured where my property line was. Uno came over and we talked about how petty it was of Jhon to double the cost of his land for a few trees. He was concerned that I was cutting on his property. He said that once the snow melted, he'd come over and show me where the property line was and we could drive a stake at that place.

Before Spring, I had a survey done. Since so much was already done and on record, it didn't cost much to do. When Uno came over to show me the line, he saw the official marker, well into where he thought the line was. He was very angry with me. I explained that I valued our neighborly relationship and didn't want to risk a dispute, so I hired an impartial, professional third party to settle it once and for all. He didn't like that one bit. He wanted to get me to agree to less than what I had bought. He said I was stupid and refused to talk to me.

To make matters worse, Uno also owned 40 acres behind my 40 and in order to get to his back 40, he had to cross through the back corner of my 40 or the west corner of Jhon's 40. Without our cooperation, his 40 was land locked. Finally got resolved when Jhon bought that other 40 acres. Since the 40s joined each other, Jhon owned access from that first 40.

I guess what I'm saying, be kind, but don't be stupid. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Every tree on my property will likely become lumber or firewood some day, nailing my property is not acceptable.

Please read your deed, find out what the easement says and get back with us.

I feel for you. You have purchased property and it does belongs to you. I agree that it should not be used by anyone other than you or whomever you give permission to. In your most genteel and professional manner approach the neighbor and get this settled. Make sure your survey was correct (I'm sure this cost you a bundle to start with) and then make sure you have control over YOUR land. It's best to not be abrasive but it's also crucial that you keep ALL your land - squatters have real rights too so don't give up a square inch of it.

Just go talk to him. Until you determine that it was any more than an honest mistake, why look for trouble? There's plenty of time to get more aggressive later, if you determine that his intentions are to take advantage of you.

Please tell how us you can surmise this could be an honest mistake? The OP has already said "we both have a legal right to use the road to access our properties and neither can forbid the other access usage."

There is a boundary marker with a flag on it mere feet from the gate. Is it too much of an assumption to think the neighbor knows which side of the boundary marker his land lies on?

The man knowingly tresspassed on and damaged the OP's property by erected a gate which denies access to land not his. That, to me, would make his intentions perfectly clear. I would consider the aggression to have already commenced were I the land owner denied access to my property.

The property line runs down the middle of the access road, that is why the stake is in the "middle". The bugaboo with gates is that you can't gate off half a road, it's really hard to get a vehicle through half a space. The guy hung the gate on the tree because it was handy(and maybe the road is not actually often used as well so that explains the cheap quick n dirty hanging or it--I see that around here too, the good stuff goes on the frequently used access). So, not exactly evidence for aggression as gates "usually" span a road.

ETA I looked back, and the OP does use the road, but the explanation of it all is fuzzy--I think he's saying the road beyond the gate is then completely (?) on the neighbor's property, in which case the upsetting thing appears to be the use of a tree on a corner(just within the corner) to hang a gate. The road up to the gate he "shares"(the property line goes down the middle). The land is a few acres of trees and swamp, nothing else on it(?). He is an absentee owner(?).

So yeah, honest mistake on the part of the neighbor (so far)

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The neighbor should have contacted you beforehand. That bothers me.

The gate and the fence needs to be in the right spot. I suppose that your neighbor could be just trying to get something up quickly to keep people off his land. (hopefully he isn't doing anything on his land that's illegal)

The only remedy to not knowing what they intend is talking to them.

I like the suggestion to get a copy of their deed and take pictures to document the situation.

I have an odd paranoid suggestion. Get a couple of long spikes and drive them into the ground a set distance, say exactly 10 feet, along the property line from the survey stakes. I guess that you'd want to use something that won't be confused with the survey stakes. The idea is to have a buried stake if the neighbor decides to pull the original survey stake.

I don't know if you'd like to volunteer to supply a sturdy gate post and put it at the correct location.

I also don't like that the neighbor is putting fencing in the wrong spot, it makes me doubt that the gate and fence are temporary.

Good luck

No, there is shared road beyond the gate; not much, but some.

I assume (there I go again ) the neighbor placed the gate where he did because the road goes through a good sized open area when the road reaches his property. That is, if he gated the road at the point it became entirely his, not only would he have to erect a gate to restrict access, but fencing on either side of it as well. Placing it where he did, he only had to erect the gate to restrict access.

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dezingg,

I did something along those lines when I discovered the gate: I paced off the distance to the stake from the nearest tree.

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For the record on our gate issue? There are two driveway easements on the N and S edge of the property owner's land to our West. Just before we bought the property, that owner erected two posts and hung a gate. Now, we don't need to use that driveway, as we already have one driveway leading to our property on the other side of the their property. However, one other property owner, to the S edge of this Owner's property would have to drive down the driveway we use (the closest one) most. The Owner of our property wisely went up to that property owner and discussed the gate with them, asking them nicely to remove it. It was illegal for the Owner to gate off an Easement Driveway without agreement from the property owners who owned that Easement Right. These Owners are good people, who admitted they just wanted people to use the other Access Easement, but conceded they also knew they had to allow access. The gate was removed without incident.

Here, it is illegal to "divert" the flow of water. That isn't to say that you cannot put in a curtain drain where it drains down and flows through a pipe. The reason for the law was to prohibit people from diverting natural flowing water that empties in to streams and other bodies of water, primarily. Also, to keep diversion practices from causing damage to other properties. This same property owner, to the West, not realizing that Law, put in pipes and diverted their run-off right onto this property. That tough, but fair, lady didn't hesitate to go right up there and discuss how that could cause problems on this property. They mutually agreed the pipes would be removed and no incident followed.

We buy and move in without all the headaches that all this could have caused. When I looked at the Title work and confirmed the only Access Easement on our property, I realized the Easement Road was actually put on the property to our West (same property owner) MANY years ago. That makes it adverse possession, so that leg connecting the two driveways won't be moved. We will be applying for our small Easement to be abandoned, as it isn't even possible to widen that little driveway leg. This is due to topography, where our well is, and also a utility pole (in the middle of where the Easement should have been). Fortunately, for that Owner to our West, he doesn't use his property except to park a few older vehicles on, has a great big shop full of junk storage (never uses it), and otherwise never see them in their back forest acreage. It was logged before they bought it, but has a lot of nice trees happily growing. Our land is buffered by tall trees all around it, with our forest acreage on the back 5 acres.

I already know a new property owner wants to fence his property (horses) on the other West side of our property. So, I asked him when he moved in to let us know when he wants to. Our SW Corner borders their property. They are very nice folks, so I anticipate no problems. Communication is key to working out most things.

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Dheat, "Both parcels were surveyed. I need to check the deed, but I don't think there's an easement of any sort,' I hate to tell you, but if you do not have a recorded easement, you may have been suckered into buying a landlocked parcel, so you may have more than just a problem with some belligerant turkey declaring war on you by putting up a gate across your access anchored by your tree. You may have been attacked in a war you can't legally win. If you don't have a recorded easement, much less a road maintaince agreement, I sure hope you have title insurance and that there is no weasel clause excluding your easement! Also hope the survey plat showing the easement was recorded. I especially hope you are not in a caveat emptor (buyer beware) state like Virginia!!!!!

Looks to me like, before you bake any cookies and make any pacifying gestures to the adjoining landowners, you'd better thrash out your situation and options with a good real estate lawyer and I don't mean the one who prepared your deed or you used for your closing!!!

If you do not have a deeded right of way, the best thing for you to do might be to rescind your purchase and get your money back and be made whole, if you are within the time frame for doing so. It looks to me like you got hornswoggled and the gate issue is minor compared to the larger issue of your buying property you don't have legal access to.

Yes, you would have a prescriptive easement but it may cost you more money for a lawyer than you paid for the land!!!

Do post an update status report for those of us who care about you and your challenging situation.

guess the right question would be who built the road..township, county, state or private.

a guy here tried to close off an ancient road..and was denied permission ..as the road is not private..and is maintained by the township/county

and if it is in the deeds that this is a dual use road..there is no right to put a barrier on your property period

Navotifarm,

I checked my deed. I do have a perpetual easement to access the property. The road at issue is not that road, however, but is a perimeter road along one side of the property. The property line is down the center of the road.

That's exactly what I'm doing and I did speak with a RE lawyer. He said no one has a right to effect my property without my permission regardless of whether there's an easement or not.

I'm good legally, I just need to contact my neighbor and get on with it.

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Hi,

Earlier you said you were "getting an education". Heh, you are getting an education alright, but not in legal matters, only the varieties of opinions and animosities. The only way to know for sure how things are in your area, is to talk with a lawyer. You can often talk with one for an hourly rate which they will advise you of in advance.

There are too many possibilitie here with no certain knowledge. On likely thing is that the landowner is having damage (or fears damage) from others comming down the road. He may have wanted to ask you about the gate, but since you are "in absentia" he may have had difficulty in locating you. Still, if he put up a gate, he should have hinged it on his side. Many people, in an area of forest, may not put much value on any given tree.

I think you need to contact him, and say "Hi, I am ......... and I own the property across the across the road from you. Attempt to start a friendly conversation. If he had tried to contact you, he is going to be in a hurry to explaine the gate without your asking. He may be expecting thanks for getting a gate up fully at his own expense to keep you both free of vandalism, and jumping his case right off is not going to go well. I think this is the most likely scenario.

He may also not really understand the property line, in which case, hopefully, the two of you can work that out on a friendly bassis.

There is a possibility, that he is just an a##hole and a jerk. In which case you will have to deal with that as a civil/legal matter.

It is best to become friends with your neighbor if there is any way at all. He can make your life miserable or he can be a person that will lookout for you and your land down the road. Starting a friendly conversation before you get to the specific topic can go a longway to evaluate his character. Even a good guy, who thinks he is looking out for your lands wellfare as well as his is going to get a bad opinion of you if you approach him with an attitude. If there is a better area to place the gate, you can discuss that with him after you have established a relationship. You need do go into the convesation with the idea that he has placed the gate for both your protection, and then deal with it as you have to if you find out differently.

I had a neighbor try that with me a couple of years ago. And as far as I'm concerned, one tree or one hundred, it's mine, and I don't go messing with other peoples property, and I don't want them messing with mine. Anyway, he built a fence and was going to build a fence, I told him he couldn't do that. Here in Oklahoma, you cant fence off someones road, if they've been using it, even if it's on your property. My road went through a small sliver of his land, BUT he'd let the road be used for years, before I made him mad, so he couldn't close it off. If that road was there when you bought it, he probably can't close it off, and he darn sure can't hang his gate from your side. I'd talk to him and get an idea of whats going on, probably just a mistake, if not, you'll know after the talk.
P.J.

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it always helps to talk things out first! example: at Dh's work they sold some of the land behind the business for residential developement. one of the new neighbors contractors left brick in their parking lot for months while building his house. during construction we all said gee wondering what that big garage door is for? (it under the back of the house and facing the business parking lot. New neighbor never asked to drive through private parking lot, but tried one day during business hours and was rude about it. Beautiful split rail fence went up, totally legal! nothing ugly but makes nice big garage useless. new neighbor threatens and blows steam. if only he had asked or been polite and apologetic. Oops!

I have a piece of property at the rear of a subdivided development with a shared access road. My neighbor (non-resident) has an easement off this road through my property to his land. I fenced my property and put a gate (not locked) across the access road. In Wisconsin, you can gate to keep livestock in but not lock it. He wasn't happy but then he never is....

Well, I visited my property yesterday and met my neighbor. A nice fellow. I spoke with him about the gate and learned my most basic and reasonable assumption was wrong: he did not put up the gate; another neighbor put up the gate.

The other neighbor has no property claim on the road whatsoever. I'll have to check, but as far as I understand, he doesn't even have an easement granted. Unbelievable.

While I was there I met a third neighbor for the first time. They were using their tractor to get some water off a road by digging a ditch. He and I share the road (same deal as other road: property line down middle of road) until the road reaches the entrance to his property. After the entrance to his property, the road is entirely mine. The problem is he was several 100 ft. down the road beyond the entrance to his property, i.e., he was working on my road without my permission. I appreciate his desire to get the water off the road, but... Unbelievable.

So, now I have 2 problems to resolve with 2 people. Yahoo.

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