Neighbor building gate on shared road

All,

thanks for the advice. Sounds like I'm on the right track. I'll let you know how things turn out.

Thanks again,

Doug

__________________
Live and learn. Die and forget it all.

blooba,

BTW, assertion of rights does not equate to aggression.

Doug

__________________
Live and learn. Die and forget it all.

Gate? What missing gate? I haven't seen a gate.

When we first purchased our homestead land I had a question about a little corner of about 3 acres that appeared to be ours on the township map, but were fenced off at a slightly different location. When I specifically asked the realtor this question, he showed me his map and said "yes, this is part of your property that you're buying".

Later, I got a copy of the legal survey from the county's website, and after going out myself with a compass and chaining rod, I found that the fences were exactly were they were supposed to be and that the realtor was in error. So, based on someone else's incorrect map reading I could have "thought I owned" several more acres.

This might be exactly what is happening here. Both of you might "think" it is your own land and are acting accordingly. What you really need to do here is sit down with your neighbor and compare notes to honestly see where a mistake has been made.

Here's one more option for you. You can leave the chain in place, but have it locked with TWO locks. Whenever multiple land owners share a gate, it is customary to link locks together, so each individual land owner can unlock it whenever they please without interfering with the access of any other neighbor. You might bring a lock with you the first time you meet your neigbor and ask them to link-lock so you can have access. That can be better than asking for a key, because sometimes an owner will have multiple locks opened with a single key. Even if it turns out that the land actually belongs to your neighbor, their likely to grant YOU only access as a neighborly courtesy

If you haven't even talked to him yet why get yourself all worked up. If he has a lock on it ask him for a key and go from there. but don't assume he is trying to keep you out. He just might be having problems with people trespassing.

Face to face calm discussion.
Don't expect but be prepared for anger,that way you won't say things you might regret and you will say things that later you'd wish you'd thought of.

Many people don't respect the property of others. Some are here on HT.

Avoid an argument. Just say, " Well I don't want to debate this. I don't want this to spoil our relationship as neighbors. I'll check with an expert and we can get this settled fairly and legally." When he asks who your expert is, " Well, I don't know, but I'd think that a realestate attorney would know how this stuff works. Who would you suggest?"

As I said above, I'd be upset about damaging the tree....

But - you did say this was some sort of 'shared' road.

With that said, it becomes very, very muddy as to what it is you are losing? If you share the road, then you aren't losing - you are sharing. That setup means you both use each other's property.

There have been a lot of topics on bad deals with shared roads - they don't seem to pork out very well. This is another example.

Yet people keep creating proerties that can only be accessed by a shared road.

In many places people use living trees for fenceposts & gate posts & such. But that is a pet peeve of mine as I mentioned above. I'd be dern upset about putting metal in one of my trees. That would be unacceptable. I'd try the diplomatic way many folks suggest, and sounds like you are going to do. But man it bugs me when people wreck trees with metal. Do it on my property & I'm not happy for sure!

The gate itself, or 'losing' a bit of land is much more of a grey area - what does 'shared road' mean - you will have to give up something if you are sharing.

Good thread, hope you keep us informed.

--->Paul

Yep, face-to-face and calm. I know it sounds crazy, but it doesn't even occur to some people that using a single tree of someone else's would even cause someone a second thought. They simply don't understand the respect of someone else's property. They just 'assume' it would be okay since it's just standing there. We see that all the time around here.

Then there is the other side of things. In many areas of the country, it is customary (or use to be and they don't know it no longer is) to just 'sliver' off a piece of ajoining land if needed and the other guy isn't using it at the time anyway. If it's less than a 2 foot (on acreage), it's just kind of a 'gimme' for the one who needs it at the time. It's kind of an unstated neighborly understanding.

__________________
"Challenges are what make life interesting -- overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

well, I'll just say your attitude "is" anal(not necessarily that you are "wrong" or sol on the law) and if you don't handle this right it will set a precedent for how people receive the new city boy(yes people will talk about this if it blows up). Was the property surveyed when it was put up for sale? Is all you want is that the neighbor set a gate post a few feet over into the road smack on the property line?

Seriously if you get wadded up over this and handle it wrong, you have no idea how people will have fun pushing your buttons!

__________________
THE BEGINNING IS NEAR
5-star double-rated astronavagatrix earth girl

wyld thang,

Please quantify the amount of land or the number of trees I must cede before I cease to be anal.

__________________
Live and learn. Die and forget it all.

How exactly is the easement defined in the deed? Reason I ask is most often the easement is defined as a certain width in a certain spot and is often wider then the actual travel lane. For instance our shared easement is defined as having a width of 50 feet and in some places the property line is in the middle and in other places at the outer edge. Our actual travel lane is maybe ten feet wide so there is an additional 20' of easement on either side of the outside edge of the travel lane.

Maybe the tree is in the easement?

He should have talked to you about the gate before he put it up.

All,

evidently I've given the impression I'm going for my neighbor's throat. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have every intention to deal with my neighbor in a Christ-like and -pleasing manner.

I don't understand how my neighbor could not know he's violating another person's property. Nevertheless, I will give my him the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise. Even then, as I believe I've stated before, if he recognizes his offense and commits to doing things differently in the future (i.e., asking permission), I may choose to let the gate say right where it is (with the appropriate written agreement and double locks).

I have no intention of blowing this guy out of the water just because I may have the law on my side.

I don't think I can make my intentions any clearer than that.

Regards,

Doug

__________________
Live and learn. Die and forget it all.

Doug - good luck.

I hope it works out decently for you (and neighbor), and hope you let us know what the outcome is.

Angie

__________________
"Live your life, and forget your age." Norman Vincent Peale

Hooligan,

Both parcels were surveyed. I need to check the deed, but I don't think there's an easement of any sort.

Even in the case of an easement, the person granted the easement doesn't have the right to modify the property without permission, do they?

Thanks,

Doug

__________________
Live and learn. Die and forget it all.

An "easement" is just another name for the access across anothers property to reach your own. Your shared road is an easement as it guarantees you access across your neighbors property. These are usually clarified in detail in the deeds affected by them.

While the specific placement and size is usually spelled out in the deed any other considerations are usually defined in some type of landowners agreement which would be seperate from the deed. Things such as how maintenance, snow removal or accessiblity issues like putting up a gate would be handled. This agreement, if it exists, would also be mentioned in the deed.

Whether or not the person has permission SHOULD be spelled out in an agreement but lacking any formal contract it would come down to the lawyers unfortunately.

Lawyers and agreements aside.... anyone with an ounce of consideration and respect would approach his neighbors before doing something like that.

You have ASSUMED your neighbor has claimed your few feet of land and a tree with out having talked with him, and you haven't said if the property was surveyed and marked. You haven't INTRODUCED yourself to your neighbor yet and you are worked up about HOW MUCH land/trees you envision your neighbor gobbling up in the future which hasn't happened yet.

I've seen two survey companies come out and come up with different marking. If you want to make a good neighborly start offer to set a proper post for the gate(which will make the gate serviceable longer, and YOU will benefit from rifraff being kept away from your property line).

You need to chill and not be so quick to take offense. From what you've posted the issue is a few square feet and a tree, NOT acres and many trees. That jump to assuming your neighbor will rob you blind "is" anal(and un-Christian, since you brought that up).

Go talk to your NEIGHBOR and quit speculating.

__________________
THE BEGINNING IS NEAR
5-star double-rated astronavagatrix earth girl

And by the way if you think all country people sit and scheme how they can scam more land and resources from their neighbors, I guess you'll find what you're looking for?

__________________
THE BEGINNING IS NEAR
5-star double-rated astronavagatrix earth girl

wyld thang,

*sigh*

I have made no such assumption. I assume he either doesn't know where the property line is or doesn't understand what he can or can not do on a shared road.

I have said the property was surveyed. I have said the corner is clearly marked a few feet from where the gate has been erected. I have said I assumed the seller walked the property line with my neighbor because the seller did with me and the neighbor's seller and my seller are the same person.

If you would read my posts you'd know I said I may offer to pay half for the gate.

I think you need to follow your own advice.

Again, I'm not jumping to that conclusion. And I was serious the first time I asked: precisely how much land and how many trees I must cede before I cease to be anal?

I'm not speculating. I'm getting an education so I don't go off half-cocked.

I have neither expressed nor implied any such thing. If I thought that, why on earth would I want to live in the country.

Evidently, a "city person" has done you wrong. I'm sincerely sorry for that, but please don't take it out on me.

Regards,

Doug

__________________
Live and learn. Die and forget it all.

I hope you get this settled. I'll pray for a peaceful resolution.

Go talk to your neighbor!

__________________
THE BEGINNING IS NEAR
5-star double-rated astronavagatrix earth girl