Extreme Composting

Forerunner · #**1541** 04/23/12, 05:46 PM

Silvercreek, just a handful.

I can't get the boys to pack them the mile and a half from where that video was shot......and, it hasn't flooded to get the fish that excited in a couple years, now.
I've got enough expired cattle carcasses in the current piles to keep me mineral and nitrogen rich for decades.

southfarms · #**1542** 04/23/12, 09:01 PM

Thanks for the reply Forerunner. I farm a few miles from two of the country's largest rice mills. I do not have a great supply of chicken litter, but the northwest part of Arkansas has a problem with phosphorus contamination in the streams due to overapplication of litter. I would have to truck it about 150-200 miles to get it from that area of the state. Due to the current cost of P and K commercial fertilizer, if I can capture the P and the K from the litter, it would be quite feasable to move it that far. This would not only be less expensive, but it would be better for the land that we farm (all rented). I hope that this commercial use of compost doesn't upset the spirit of this thread. I would love to make my living from a small acreage, but I can't seem to convince my wife that less is more. Until then I would like to remove myself as far as I can from the powers that control the fertilizer markets. Comments, concerns, and suggestions are welcomed.

Forerunner · #**1543** 04/23/12, 09:45 PM

I dare say that a "commercial" use of compost in place of "commercial" fertilizer would be exactly what I like to see as a result of this thread.
I harbor no illusions in that there is an immediate and ready supply capable of servicing every "commercially" farmed acre of ground in the country......but wouldn't it be something if compost again saw it's value rightfully appreciated to the end that there came a shortage of composting material due to the hight demand......and that every scrap of American organic matter now wasted was again returned to the soil ?

Somebody slap me before I sink any further into this utopian daydream.

SmokeEater2 · #**1544** 04/24/12, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southfarms

Thanks for the reply Forerunner. I farm a few miles from two of the country's largest rice mills. I do not have a great supply of chicken litter, but the northwest part of Arkansas has a problem with phosphorus contamination in the streams due to overapplication of litter. I would have to truck it about 150-200 miles to get it from that area of the state. Due to the current cost of P and K commercial fertilizer, if I can capture the P and the K from the litter, it would be quite feasable to move it that far. This would not only be less expensive, but it would be better for the land that we farm (all rented). I hope that this commercial use of compost doesn't upset the spirit of this thread. I would love to make my living from a small acreage, but I can't seem to convince my wife that less is more. Until then I would like to remove myself as far as I can from the powers that control the fertilizer markets. Comments, concerns, and suggestions are welcomed.

Being from Arkansas myself (North Central area) I am glad to hear that a commercial farmer is saying no to chemical "fertilizers"!

I don't know what crops you raise but I firmly believe that they and the land as well as the families who receive the food you provide would benefit greatly from your planned use of compost.

And since Tyson has covered the state with chicken and turkey concentration camps there is an over abundance of manure that is being under utilized and causing problems in local water supplies.

Having walked farm land that reeked of freshly applied chemicals to an eye watering degree and also having the misfortune of seeing (and smelling

) the inside of a couple of turkey houses ( That will put you off store bought poultry products forever.) I'm glad to see that someone is farsighted enough to use the by-products of them to stop the chemical treadmill that too many commercial farmers have allowed themselves to rely on.

I wish you the very best of luck!

southfarms · #**1545** 04/24/12, 09:03 PM

Thanks for the encouragement guys. That treadmill is what I am trying to stay off of as much as I can. I am about 50 miles SE of Little Rock. It's a long haul, but hopefully I can make some steps toward soil improvement and lessen my dependance on Potash Corp. By the way I currently only raise rice, soybeans, and occasionally wheat.

Stephen

Oswego · #**1546** 04/27/12, 09:23 PM

I am behind getting this years compost pile started because I started a vegetable garden using the pile I have posted on. But I have some of the darkest green tomato, pepper, eggplant, beans, squash and cucumbers I have ever had. Blooms everywhere and will be eating from it soon. I need to use the time between blooms and fruit to get my new pile started.

Forerunner · #**1547** 05/02/12, 07:15 AM

I've touched on it several times before, but the concept is worthy of an occasional repeat.

I am fascinated by the darkest, richest green and robust growth that is evident where my piles have been before spreading, and the same phenomenon that occurs wherever the runoff from these current piles is allowed to drain.

Whenever possible, place your piles on a hilltop where the juices can flow down into your garden/pasture/field/orchard what-have-you. The compost tea generated during decomposition is as valuable to the operation as ever the finished product will be.

I have several large hills that stand alone in pasture and field areas, and have gone to building my piles on the peaks and letting the tea soak in all the way around.
I've even gone so far, where feasible, as to rip the ground up within ten or twenty feet of the piles, all the way around, every few weeks, to more completely facilitate incorporation of the tea into the surrounding soil, and to prevent the liquid traveling too far, too fast, in the event of heavy rain.

For a very interesting and in depth second witness to the value of compost tea, I encourage the participants and observers here to seek out their own copy of the reprint book, "Ten Acres Enough", by Edmund Morris.
The book is an incredible inspiration to the hands-on organic grower, just not quite on par with Extreme Composting.
Pay particular attention to the work ethic and focus of the hired man in Ten Acres......

Amazon.com: Ten Acres is Enough (9780980297638): Edmund Morris: Books

idigbeets · #**1548** 05/03/12, 09:17 AM

I would like to note that if you are in a state that has/requires (most do I think) a manure management plan (if you are using manure) it's important to review those regulations prior to choosing a compost site.

My county defines composting as "manure stacking, or field stacking" and requires certain runoff considerations, slope of land, covering of pile, or if necessary an improved pad. Now.. I'm not saying don't compost... but for those of you doing this on a larger than backyard scale.. make sure you don't get slapped by NRCS/DEP for "improperly" handling manure.

am1too · #**1549** 05/03/12, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneldad5

Well I've been off of here for a couple of months and haven't chimed in but in that time I've made my way back from Afghanistan to the states and have even had a chance to run home for a few days to check out my new homestead. Although I already have good soil I can only imagine that adding good compost will make it better. I am also blessed to have several dairy farms near by and most folks have horses. I have already (well the wife has anyway) approached a couple and we have ready access to an abundant supply of cow/horse manure. Looks like I get to start building some big piles this summer. My only limitation is the fact that I am limited to a Ford pickup to haul it in and shovels to unload and build my piles. Unfortunately my appetite for large piles greatly outstrips my ability to build them.

It takes lots of shovels (manure fork) to build a pile by hand. I have no major equipment and have to do it little by littel. It sure adds up and my neighbor ask me if I was building a mountian.

At last I have enough material to use a couple of those expired cows. Now I need to find them and have them delivered.

Coloneldad5 · #**1550** 05/03/12, 03:26 PM

I must admit one of the reasons I bought my "homestead" was to help teach me patience. I recognize that it is a long term task to build up such a place and I really do wish I could get it all up and running now, but have to be patient and work one step (or in this case one scoop) at a time and gradually build it up over time. And so it appears I will be building as big a pile as I can, one pick up load at a time.

Forerunner · #**1551** 05/03/12, 04:11 PM

I have been amazed, many times over, what can be done by one man, using hand labor, with diligence and determination applied....let alone the same over an extended period of time.

Rafter B · #**1552** 05/04/12, 07:32 AM

Forerunner sir,

I have been reading this thread for some time, and have to admit even have gone back 3 times to reread it again. I just love it, and it is so addicting. You have totally opened my eyes to making compost, as you have so many others here. I cant wait to finish working overseas (in Afghanistan right now) and finally have my own place, so compost like crazy. lol. thank you so much for all the education you have given.

Forerunner · #**1553** 05/04/12, 09:54 PM

My pleasure, Rafter B.

Isn't there a compost pile, somewhere close there in Afghanistan, that you could pee on to tide yourself over a bit ?
I hate to see you pining away, so.....

Rafter B · #**1554** 05/05/12, 08:31 AM

lmao, I think the whole place is a compost pile. so that wouldnt be a problem.

Forerunner · #**1555** 05/05/12, 08:34 AM

The whole place is a compost pile ?!!

Are you certain that you're in Afghanistan, and not Heaven ?

CesumPec · #**1556** 05/05/12, 10:43 AM

In the May issue of Acres Magazine there is an article on composting which is an excerpt from the book Organic Management for the Professional. It provides the most comprehensive list of feedstock materials I have seen which includes the normal manures and food processor wastes but also some items you might not have considered like out of date beer (yes, that does happen in bars) drywall, telephone books, and bakery wastes.

What I found most interesting was the authors’ validation of Forerunner’s composting technique.

Good compost is created with little or no turning. Frequent turning aerates the pile and causes it to reduce in volume by up to 70% in as little as 3 months. The reduction in volume comes at the expense of releasing nitrogen and sulfur as gases to the atmosphere, killing beneficial fungi, and eliminating organic matter. If your goal is to reduce the volume of stuff in your pile and create a soil amendment with little value as a fertilizer, turn the pile every few days. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

Containers and bins are probably not desired. If you have a situation as may be necessary in urban/suburban settings where compost piles have to be hidden or limited to a small space, then bins could be required. However, bins reduce air flow which slows decomposition and hinders the growth of beneficial microbes. The beneficial microbes bind harmful salt; bacteria use the sodium and fungi use the chlorine in their cell walls. The microbes improve nutrient retention, improve soil structure both physically and chemically, and breakdown toxic materials. In spite of the hype by Home Depot which wants to sell you a fancy bin and even some composting books, try not to use bins. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

Making compost fast, as is done in most commercial composting facilities, is probably not desired if your goal is safe, fertile soil amendments. Time and heat kills pathogens, grows higher populations of beneficial microbes, and decomposes insecticides and herbicides that may have been in your manure or yard waste feedstock. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

The authors define a large pile as 8 – 15 ft tall, 15 – 25 ft wide, and as long as feedstock is available. Smaller piles don’t get as hot, don’t kill as many pathogens, and don’t decompose toxins as effectively. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

The simple take away from the article is that they agree with the advice given over the 50+ pages of this thread, create good compost by using diverse feedstock, place it in a large pile, leave it alone for a year.

am1too · #**1557** 05/05/12, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CesumPec

In the May issue of Acres Magazine there is an article on composting which is an excerpt from the book Organic Management for the Professional. It provides the most comprehensive list of feedstock materials I have seen which includes the normal manures and food processor wastes but also some items you might not have considered like out of date beer (yes, that does happen in bars) drywall, telephone books, and bakery wastes.

What I found most interesting was the authors’ validation of Forerunner’s composting technique.

Good compost is created with little or no turning. Frequent turning aerates the pile and causes it to reduce in volume by up to 70% in as little as 3 months. The reduction in volume comes at the expense of releasing nitrogen and sulfur as gases to the atmosphere, killing beneficial fungi, and eliminating organic matter. If your goal is to reduce the volume of stuff in your pile and create a soil amendment with little value as a fertilizer, turn the pile every few days. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

Containers and bins are probably not desired. If you have a situation as may be necessary in urban/suburban settings where compost piles have to be hidden or limited to a small space, then bins could be required. However, bins reduce air flow which slows decomposition and hinders the growth of beneficial microbes. The beneficial microbes bind harmful salt; bacteria use the sodium and fungi use the chlorine in their cell walls. The microbes improve nutrient retention, improve soil structure both physically and chemically, and breakdown toxic materials. In spite of the hype by Home Depot which wants to sell you a fancy bin and even some composting books, try not to use bins. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

Making compost fast, as is done in most commercial composting facilities, is probably not desired if your goal is safe, fertile soil amendments. Time and heat kills pathogens, grows higher populations of beneficial microbes, and decomposes insecticides and herbicides that may have been in your manure or yard waste feedstock. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

The authors define a large pile as 8 – 15 ft tall, 15 – 25 ft wide, and as long as feedstock is available. Smaller piles don’t get as hot, don’t kill as many pathogens, and don’t decompose toxins as effectively. A better solution is a large static pile left to sit for a year or more.

The simple take away from the article is that they agree with the advice given over the 50+ pages of this thread, create good compost by using diverse feedstock, place it in a large pile, leave it alone for a year.

Closing in on this size.

Forerunner · #**1558** 05/05/12, 01:37 PM

I hate being validated.

It robs me the opportunity to argue logic with that occasional incomprehending.

That said, I got the validation from Joseph Jenkins, who also loathes a pile turner....... along with my own logistics, here.
I figured it cost enough time and resource to get the stuff here. No need to spend the same time and resources eternally turning compost piles.

As for the drywall, I've come to keep several piles melting down, in the weather.
Once the construction industry finds that you're interested, there's certainly no shortage of the stuff. Like lime, I recommend against incorporating drywall gypsum into the compost piles. But do spread it in the fields as a stand alone amendment. As with my compost, I spread extra thick on the mounds to allow runoff to carry the tea down the hills for me. Drywall sheets break down in the field very nicely, the paper disintegrating in a season or two and the white powder disappearing altogether within a couple diskings.

Oswego · #**1559** 05/07/12, 09:49 AM

To start my new pile I called the City Electric dept. They have a truck with a large chippper behind it that follows the Electric crew when they have to cut limbs away from wires. When the covered dump part of the truck gets full they just dump it at the landfill. By calling and putting my order in they will dump the next load at my house.

This morning they dumped a full truckload and it already had hot spots with steam rising from it. Now I will travel the neighborhood for a few weeks and pick up grass from where folks dump their riding lawn mowers with baggers.

Rafter B · #**1560** 05/08/12, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forerunner

The whole place is a compost pile ?!!

Are you certain that you're in Afghanistan, and not Heaven ?

lol yeah, if this is heaven, I dont want to see hell.