Haha! You know that a good 'shiner isn't going to release any evidence! :whistle:

Well, it has sure taken its toll on my time; but this thread was not only a lesson in quality composting but an inspirational and joyful read as well. Thanks so much forerunner!

My compost pile (3 parts for ease in turning) is a "speck" of what you do; but am hoping for some quality bedding for my veggies/fruits from it.

Where had you been, all this time, MotG ? :shrug:

We been right here tellin' jokes and pitch forkin' shhhhhhhhhhhavings for quite some time now.........


:)

ROFL well, I been digging off the topsoil for my new raised bed and preparing the area for my new composting. :) At my age and with this weather, that has taken its toll! Say you got the cutest little boys....would sure love to have a few on this place....sure hope they attend good schools.

Well, I don't have much of my own compost and it is under snow. But this is a pile where i can fetch already composting piles of mulch for free (township transfer site)

I am given permission to fetch a load here there but I cannot clear out the pile since I am not a resident of the city :P but... it works for me. I can use the composted material on my trees now and work on my own piles for eventual spreading throughout my very sandy yard to build up my soil

http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps8a0385cc.jpg

http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/l...psca185bd2.jpg

There are also blueberry bushes. Eventually I want to fill in the whole area. I have a lot of sandburrs that grow in this area and i want to smother them out

All those young trees in fresh compost look nice.

I thought that black pile in the first pic looked nice. :)

My little urban homestead needs compost in the worst way - we're planting on top of the remains of previous occupation, so it's very much starting from scratch! Every year I add everything I can find, but it feels like a losing battle! This year, though, I'm on a mission!! I found a ton of stables on craigslist giving away their manure and although I know it'll be weedy, it's FREE and they'll load it for me! So tomorrow morning I'll be strapping the toddler into her car seat and loading my heavily pregnant self into a borrowed pickup to start making runs! Thank goodness a friend needs work and can unload it for me!

Thank you, Forerunner, for getting me on task this year. No composting, no crop for us!

LadyR...... if you pile that delicious bonanza of stall cleanings, they'll heat and kill most of those weed seeds. Horse manure and bedding is one of the best stand alone compost sources out there.

Ah - so I should wait to spread it out? I thought I should spread it so it'd have a chance to water down into the soil before spring? I haven't any machinery so I was just going to turn it into the soil a couple of inches when everything thaws.

I used sawdust for my garden paths two years ago and then my well-meaning hubby tilled the entire garden over, resulting in a serious N loss. Last years garden was so sad and spindly, and it took me awhile to figure out what was wrong (only been gardening 5 years now). So this is my year to fix it!! I'm hoping the manure helps, but I'm very fuzzy on the math to figure out how much I need....roughly a 20'x50' space. 3 cubic yards is about what I'll manage to haul tomorrow, then we're buying 3 cubic yards of mushroom compost too. Enough?

On a 20 by 50 plot, you could spread 30 yards of finished compost......and you'd see some phenomenal growth to follow. :)

I would definitely make a couple piles of the horse stall cleanings......maybe one on each side of the garden. You could also spread the stuff a couple inches thick like you were thinking, and till it in come the thaw, and do pretty well, too. You'd just have a few more weeds and maybe some small evidence of an imbalance here and there.

Just wing it this year and make some good, hot piles to season for next year.
That's the beauty of composting. It's the gift that keeps on giving, and it's never too late or too soon to get the ball rolling.

Can I compost by just digging 6 foot hole ?
 

Can I just dig a 6 foot circular hole 6 feet deep and throw my grass cuttings and leaves after I cut them up too with microcut double-blade mower, and throw some dirt in there from time to time too, to compost ? Thank you.

Holy cow. :eek:

That would be a lot of unnecessary work.

Such a configuration wouldn't drain and would likely even ferment rather than properly decompose. A simple pile, or a simple bin made from pallets or straw bales, would be much more satisfactory a setup for composting.

Hey, sharing Compost Pile GIFT STORY...

So, a few months ago, I dumped the extra Elephant Garlic and multiple varieties of Hard Neck Garlic out in our Compost Pile. Since they were old, just didn't give them much thought after that. I hadn't considered planting them due to their condition... DH was dumping all sorts of compost materials on top this Winter.

What did I recently discover? While dumping some compost material out there, I looked down and saw some Elephant Garlic plants. Bending down, I began digging around and found over (90) very happy plants, some up to 4" tall. Yesterday, I planted (30) of them, dug the rest of the holes, and will plant the remaining (60). I'll be digging around some more to see what else is growing in there...

A few years ago, there was a gardener in Canada's Maritimes who did similar to that with what was pure glacial sand and gravel. He used a backhoe to dig trenches almost that deep and filled them with supermarket, restaurant, and fisheries waste. It was the ultimate in trench composting.

Martin

Trench composting
 

Forerunner,

It is a lot of work. There is no question of that. I am not lazy, and I do enjoy the exercise. I have done this now for 10 years. I have dug 2 holes 6 feet diameter and 6 feet deep. Actually, I am more than about 9 feet now. My neighbors come over and all they see is dirt flying out from my shovel. The 1st year, I dug the 1st hole. That had roots and rocks. I had to use a pick and an axe quite a bit. I discarded all that. And, the dirt I piled up outside the hole.

The 2nd year, I had the 1st hole covered up, and above the ground like you show in the pictures here in this thread.

So, I had to dig a 2nd hole, and again pick and axe, and again a lot of roots and plenty of rocks.

The next Summer, I was all set then. Just dumped in the grass clippings, and then in the Fall, the leaves crunched-up.

The 3rd Summer, I decided I would dig up the 1 I did the 1st year. It was easy digging. Lots of worms and snails and black dirt. Really black dirt. I put it in wheelbarrows and spread it all over my yard.

Not one ant. Not one rock. No sticks. Great stuff.

Couple of weeks later, I had the greenest yard. It also leveled off some spots and I did some beds for flowers with it by the doors.

Easy to put the grass clippings and cut-up leaves in the hole then year 3. Been relatively easy each year since, although the holes seem to grow.

Like I said I am like 9 feet down now. Have to climb out. And, the width grows wider and wider, each year too.

I have the best dirt when here in Georgia what I was digging in was red clay, I am sure you know.

Before Christmas, we were 17 feet short at Lake Lanier where we get our drinking water. Now, it is 6 feet short. So, as you can imagine my digging has come to a halt now with the Lake the 9 feet hole has in it. But, when or if it dries out before Summer, I will have easy time getting all the soft dirt out of the bottom.

I try to throw back the worms and snails and such. I have no weeds and no ants and no rocks, and my dirt is free.

Great dirt.

And, I get great exercise. And, everyone just looks at me like you said and roll their eyes.

I just ask them what they pay for dirt ? My neighbor bought a truck load. He sorted out rocks till the cows came home. He had ants. He has weeds from it. He has big sticks in it. And, he paid hundreds of dollars for the dirt.

I am not so much looking for a justification for continuing to do this until the Good Lord calls my name, as I am just wondering input on how others do this. I am not building a compost bin 6 feet wide and 9 feet tall, nor actually 2 of those. And, actually the pile grows on-top of the ground 6 feet high too. And, I am not having a pile that high no one can see over. My yard is nice. I spend all my time in it gardening. I don't want that. I can put-up with a hole 9 feet deep from February until the Summer when I throw a couple bags of grass in it and it looks full. Then, I put a little dirt from the previous year's compost. Then, more grass. Then the leaves all cut-up. Then, more grass. Then more dirt until it is like 6 feet in the air. Then, dirt for the top. And, it gets more and more compact.

Then, I start digging the hole out from 2 years' prior and spreading that dirt out. I am told this is Nitrogen. I buy no fertilizer, although I have used some Lime pellets each year, very lightly. And, ant killer. I just fill up my wheelbarrow, roll it to a spot and throw it out with a shovel until I get down to near the end and look for a spot I can dump the remaining load, and then spread-out that lot some.

I dug a spot the other day for some work I was doing, and after 10 years now, my yard is covered in deep black dirt down a good number of inches. The grass doesn't die because I don't dump that much on any 1 place. Kinda fling it loosely, and let Nature have her way.

Paquebot I read your post about trench composting and you gave me an idea. The property next to mine is vacant and the erosion is unbelievable. The loss of top soil is bad but the flooding the runoff causes across the street is truly awful. Some of the trenches on the property are over 5’ deep. What if I dump compostable items in the base of the trenches, there are about 12 or so, to help stop the fast water runoff and let the stuff decompose as it functions as a part-time dam, and then as the water slowly seeps through give it a trench to let the soil settle in. What do you think?

Dug trenches are one thing, erosion ditches are different. No ordinary organic matter is going to stop water from washing it out just as easily as plain dirt unless you make a dam of something more dense or solid. One way is to fill erosion ditches with logs and then sod over them. You could do something like that and mix organic material with the logs as you fill. Otherwise, that is just going to end up wherever the missing soil went.

Martin

Thomas... there's no doubt that what you're doing is interesting and a bit strange in the composting world. But it sounds like it's working good for you. I grew up on land that was mainly composed of red clay too, and I know your pain when it comes to making your soil dark and fertile. Digging huge holes in red clay, is kinda like making giant clay pots in the earth. Even if they fill with water and ferment, like Forerunner stated, I believe it would be about like putting swamp dirt/mud on your soil. We had several hundreds of acres of swamp behind the property that I grew up on, and we used to haul some of that rotten, stinky stuff, and put it on our garden plots. Worked pretty good, and I would think that maybe you're getting some of the same benefits.
One question though: Do you put a fence or something over those deep holes to keep people and animals from falling in? I realize that once they are full of compost it's not an issue. But before it's full, how do you protect them?

Thanks for the input. I know where to come when it comes down to the truly dirty questions.

That's funny! Your right though, this has to be the dirtiest thread on the site. :hysterical:

It was the ultimate in trench composting.
 

Martin,

"It was the ultimate in trench composting."

My dirt, to begin with on-top of the ground, and deep, deep down into the ground, was as all know of my environs, red clay with rocks.

Sticks in that, stay hard and do not compost, either. I have a corner fenced-in where the shade from my Pecan Grove doesn't allow sun much, and grass simply wouldn't fill-in nicely anyway.

I fancy I can make my yard like some you see with deep, rich grass. After 10 years of it, it gets better each year now.

Some of the hills are so steep, I frequently slip mowing and cannot cross-cut or it would turn-over on me. Over time now, with me throwing the vast majority of the made dirt there : Loosely each year wheelbarrow after wheelbarrow dug out of my composting pile made of just only grass clippings, leaf clippings and in the Winter, my ashes from my fireplace Old Man Bailey built for me in my very large bedroom, and the dirt from the compost pile thrown in every few feet to make that dirt better and, now the hills have become less severe, and actually grow much better grass now too.

I have leveled off the land, and have fewer and fewer bare spots, though the hills remain the main focal-point of the trench composting. You find no red clay in the yard on-top or anywhere in either of the two trench composting piles now, largely one contiguous pile spreading-out about 15 feet in all directions.

The 1st few years, the compost dirt was not fit for spreading yet from all the red clay. I just dug it up, easily then, and put a little of that composting material in with the grass clippings, leaf clippings, and ash from my fireplace. And, again the 4th year, still more of the same. That is when the pile grew to 9 feet above ground, and I started to notice that the entire trench composting has provided the darkest black-earth free of ants, sticks, rocks and great for spreading out wherever the land needed it.

It all really started because of the DeKalb County Yard Trash Schedule. I spend the entire weekends, every weekend, gardening with no time during the week. I get the debris piling-up early Saturday morning. Were I to buy approved brown bags and carry it to the street, there it would sit until Friday afternoon when they pick-up my street. Indeed, this scene is exactly what my industrious neighbors have. Then, Saturday morning, early, back to the street with 5 bags of grass clippings, bag or 2 of ashes from my fireplace, or 20 bags of leaves, depending on the season.

Basically, we have on my street, bags in front of my house from Saturday morning, until Friday afternoon. Then, they pick-it up I pay for, and looks nice Friday night only. Plus where I put the bags is only back on the grass, killing it, or block my driveway, since blocking the busy sidewalk is not an option, nor on my highway 5 lanes wide in front of my home with a million cars a week passing by.

Vainly, I hear folks tell me my yard always looks the best of all.

I guess I just can't bear to have all that at the street Saturday morning until Friday 365 days' a year.

I already have a woodshed, and of course, my Morgan Building with all my power tools, and a basketball court, and alas I don't have the heart to build a composting structure of wood too to compost above ground, yet another structure which would have to be two 15 feet high 6 feet wide wood structures.

I see no difference, therefore, than digging down 9 feet February and March and start filling it in my fenced-in corner in the back, when I have unlocked gates in all 4 ends of the yard for anyone to freely travel through my yard, than having a pile of compost sitting only upon the top of red clay, not enhancing that corner in any fashion, nor the ground underneath a compost pile just sitting there as in the pictures above.

I fantasize I will dig-up gold or a chest of old coins, and like I say I love the exercise. I have improved the dirt in that corner. I have improved the yard nearly a foot in places all over. I try not to have the stench associated with burning smoking piles of animal droppings, nor the reek to the whiff of rotting garbage, for which I pay a handsome fee to the county anyway, and they pick that up Monday and Wednesday.

What I hoped for here in this thread, this blog, I have found in Martin discussing

Trench Composting.

And, for that I thank you Martin.

They don't call us Extreme Composting, fer nuthin'.


Now I've just about seen it all.


Thomas B..... looks to me like you did a fair job answering your own original query. :)

uh, no
 

No, I was looking for ways to improve Trench Composting. Again, what is the difference in what I've successfully been doing, and just piling it up on the ground ?

That answer is nothing, other than piling it up on the ground does nothing for the soil underneath the pile. The compost pile in the ground can only get water down into it, while the trench is deeper than the clippings. Pretty much when you start putting clippings into the trench, the trench seems full to the eye. When it is as a hole and is dry, I put clippings in it. When it is as a hole and full of water, I wait to start filling it, and can easily dig out the wet dirt.

Martin seems to be aware of similar. You don't.

I had a hole on my property once. I live on sand mind you. But I tossed my leaves in there for a few years and other things. It composted and now I no longer have a hole. No issues with drainage since I live on sand. I am currently filling in a big hole with manure, hay etc and I know it will take longer to compost than if I just made a huge pile but with only a pitch fork and my overweight out of shape body, its what I can do :P. Within 2 years it should be nice soil specially once the worms find it (it is a 20x20 by 2-3 foot deep hole)

Ooh I see now.. you live on hard compact clay. What a pain! I'd think it would be less effort if you had a mound on top of the ground... making a wet soupy mess I think would hinder the composting process

Ouch Thomas.... no need to start a composting war. There are always different ways of doing the same thing. Like the old saying goes: 'There's more than one way to skin a cat!'.

One more note... and don't get your feathers ruffled, okay? Composting effectively, requires a constant influx of oxygen for the little organisms to thrive. True, you can still compost the way you're doing it....But, having more of the 'pile' exposed to air, rather than being in a hole where air is harder to get to and circulate, will allow the organic matter to thoroughly decompose at a faster and more consistent rate. Here is an outfit perfecting the idea of using compost heat to feed a heat exchanger. They talk about the importance of oxygen circulation: http://www.magicsoil.com/Heat/index.htm

Trench composting for me was done out of necessity when we were raising up to 80 or more rabbits at any given time for a local market. Given a choice of using half of the garden space for a huge dung heap, trenches were dug in the garden. They were 3' deep and 3' wide and 6' to 8' or longer. The winter's accumulation of manure and bedding was packed in to ground level and mounded with about 6" of soil. First year was always beans and after that didn't matter. Eventually over 1200 square feet of garden area was at least a foot higher without adding any more real soil other than some sand to reduce compacting.

Martin

Would that be a bit thick?

Depends on what you are aiming for. If just adding enough compost for nutrients and soil amendment value, 2" would be fine. If you wanted to grow in pure compost, 30 yards would give you about 10" on 1,000 square feet.

Martin

Thomas, I do believe that Forerunner said it would be alot of extra work, digging those trenches.

If that's the way you want to do it, then have at it. But don't attack a guy for simply giving his opinion.

I don't mind the occasional sparks, A-Moose.

You know, they say, the best way to tell what's in a man's cup is to bump it. :)

OK my math is having a problem today. I seemed to have droped a zero somewhere.

Admittedly, even coming from me, Am1......100 inches would be excessive.

2-10 inches is great. :)

Gotta be cause it is snowing down here today. Is 30 Cu Yd 810 Cu Ft? Martin is close to 10". Seems some zeroes are floating around. I lost one and it seems you found it.:banana: Was gonna pick up 8 yrds of horse stall cleanings. But I can do it in the sun tomorrow. Crossing my fingers. This is Oklahoma. Neighbor is envious of my pile.

According to my math, which is HIGHLY questionable, you're correct. 30 Cu Yd = 810 Cu Ft. Therefore, if Volume / Area = Height, then 810/1000 = .81.
.81*12 = 9.72 inches.

Like I said: HIGHLY questionable! :confused:

Martin, Why did you choose Beans first?

^^^^Exactly ^^^^

Why not start a thread on "trench composting" and enlighten us all?

Am1too, the last place we lived, I had a little bitty 25 ft x 25ft garden with about 8-12 inches of the neighbors horse stall cleanings layered on top of solid beach sand... it was sort of like one big raised bed. The first year we put it down, there was a bit of heat to it, but not enough to kill the plants.

The tomatoes were HUGE! Each year for 3 years, the soil mellowed and composted in place. The only caveat, is to catch the weeds before the go crazy in that luscious stuff. When we moved out, the weeds took over and all I can say is, wowzas.

I used shallow trench composting when I was still gardening in a suburban home, with no place for piled compost. My lot had had all the top soil scraped off when the house was built 20 yrs prior, and there wasn't but maybe an inch of soil on top of the clay. It worked very well to improve my garden soil, and produce a raised bed after a few years.

I'm no expert on composting, but deep trench composting sounds like to me that it is similar to running a municipal dump. Yep, everything is going to decay, but it will be oxygen deprived and tend towards methane production. That might be a great route to take if you are a dairy farmer and want to convert manure to tractor fuel. I just don't think it is an optimum way to use compost.

I disagree that piled compost does nothing for the soil below. rain goes thru the pile and leaches into the ground carrying all sorts of nutrients. That, I think, is why martin prefers bin composting, so he doesn't lose anything in processing. The same happens in trench composting, I'm just guessing but I believe nutrient loss would be worse because the deep pit would collect more water from tops and side seepage and what runs out the bottom would be too far out of the desired zone for garden annuals.

To improve soil to a useful depth, you can see prior in this thread where FR trenches and fills with finished compost. I believe that is a better alternative, but he's got lots of farm equipment others may not have, so his options might not apply to some others.

To improve my newly acquired farm, I'm clearing the garden areas and chipping everything smaller than 8 inches and stacking the larger logs. Where I will have plantings, I dig down about 3 ft with a backhoe, bury the logs, then semi finished compost, then return the soil on top. This gives me what I hope will be a hugelculture concept but still a fairly flat garden that can be worked with a tractor. It remains to be seen if this was a good plan or not.

And the last, perhaps most important comment I need to make in re your posts, Mr ThomasBrownUGA, is...How 'bout them Gators!!!!