Extreme Composting

No more saw mills around here except a large one that sends its waste to a burner. There was one old pile hhere by my neighbors that was 50 years aold it was rotted through. THe stuff at work was saturated then turned 1 maybe 2 times as it was being piled. I want to get a few loads of it before we have to cover with it. Its about 150 degrees about 8 inches past the surface. THe old dogs out there will dig in the top and lay in it in the morning.

Well i hauled fifty yards of manure/ hay n woodchips in today ive been slackling on hauling weekly weve been getting snowstorms every couple of days so acess to my pile wasnt happing. I love my old backhoe it hasnt been started since sometime in december u der 3' of snow i got the jumper cables and a sniff of ether and roared to life. Iwish my other equip thats 20-30 years newer would start that easy. Its amazing dead of winter and piles will sart heating back up in a couple days. Has anyone bought one of those compost pile themometers and where did uget it.

Regarding composting in the greenhouse.

This morning I was talking to my daughter who's studying horticulture at college. Said she was doing some research and ran across an article saying in China they discovered that composting in greenhouses increased CO2 in the air, and greatly increased plant growth. Assuming other nutrients are not limited, of course.

Cool DJ! Thanks for that info!

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Trisha in WA
Visit my blog @
Diamond Belle Ranch

What else does a man have to do in his short time here on earth than build soil and feed people~Forerunner

Found a GREAT article/study on heating with compost in a greenhouse. They pump the "exhaust" from the piles under the soil to heat the soil and use the soil as a biofilter to remove ammonia from the air and convert it into nitrogen that is usable by plants directly in the root zone. They also discuss CO2 output and utilization.
The Composting Greenhouse at the New Alchemy Institute: A Report on Two Years of Operation and Monitoring

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"So folks out there - plant your victory gardens... this time, the war is against inflation." --highplains (from here at HT)

My random, hopefully-entertaining and educational blog: Black Cat Farm

For those reading this thread for the first time, I was perusing a bit, myself, and came across a few oddly disjointed posts that are the result of either deleted posts or members who have left for their own reasons and requested that all of their posting history be deleted. I don't suppose the meat of the discussion has been compromised, but if I was reading this for the first time, unawares, I'd sure have been scratching my head in confusion a time or two.

As for heating a greenhouse with compost, I've done it on a small scale in what was basically a very large cold frame...... just a thousand gallon fuel tank laid in the ground about three feet, laying horizontally, the entire front of which was cut out and laid in with old windows facing to the south at about a 45 degree angle. Id dig it out every February or as soon as the frost allowed, and lay in horse manure and bedding three feet deep, with three or four inches of black garden dirt from the last batch laid in on top. We set seed trays in part of it, and started seeds directly in the soil on the other end. There was definitely a heating going on that likely gained us a month of growing season for those plants. Instead of cold framing in 28 degree weather, we were doing it in 20 degree weather, give or take, and experiencing a large degree of success.

I have since dreamed of a larger and permanent greenhouse, laid in with a heavy concrete foundation about six feet deep, with drain tile, 20 or 30 feet long by 12 or 14 feet wide. I have several tons of red clay brick....and the concrete forms....and I thought that a brick greenhouse with solid glass front would be cool.
I planned a double foundation, about four feet apart, for the front, to facilitate a four by six by full length pit in which compost could be laid every late winter. With a mass like that, it could likely be laid in a couple months sooner than that, and still produce plenty of heat. I figured on a row of black plastic barrels in the back to absorb and hold solar heat to supplement the compost on colder nights, and even install a small wood stove for when life gets serious.
The entire affair would be sunk in the ground to allow, say, a foot of foundation to show in the front, and glass from there up. A traditional lean-to roof could be installed for the remainder, simplifying construction and making for a far more durable structure.
Brick for the back and both ends...... sliding glass door panels for the front.
With vinyl or aluminum framed panels, such, and concrete foundation, there would be little opportunity for deterioration for quite some time.
The only issue would be moisture against the rafters and sheeting.....which could be dealt with by selecting a moisture and rot resistant wood for all interior construction.
Cypress, cedar, osage, locust.....cured out and painted with linseed oil or some equivalent ?

Oh, for more energy, these days.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

Im wanting to put a green house up and also make a pit for compost heat. Reading your post gave me a new idea to combine both. But basicly im thinking a pit that is all lined with concrete prolly 8' down the center maybe 6' deep i can fill with compost once or twice a year with loader or skid steer. Can run piping in it for radiant heat for my other buildings and heat from pile should be more than enough to heat greenhouse. You could also have a sump in bottom to pump out water from compost for plants in green house.

Doing that would also allow for more accurate testing and experimentation. If this stuff is getting off topic let me know i think it fits in with the title bringing compost to the extremes. We have a local composting facilty thats run by the county they make compost in thirty days. They blow air in piles to cool and heat. They use wood chips and biosoilds from sewer treatmant plants. Those piles cook at 150 degrees for thirty days straight.

There would have to be a really off-the-wall post about the preferred hair-color of a vintage Barbie™ doll, etc. before I'd cry foul for thread drift.
Do carry on with your good, on-point information.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

Maybe you need to hold a greenhouse "raising" this summer and have a group of people get it done for you!

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You are confined only by the walls you build yourself.

Well so much for me getting anything done today. I read a few pages last night and went back and started over and read all 27 pages today although I skimmed through a few pages as they seemed to have no benefit.

Butanyways, Quite inspirational in many ways. The word of the day when writing the factor is "unctuous". How ironically fitting. (I had to look it up)

We're moving to the Mid-West in 6-8 weeks to move onto our new homestead. Off grid and undeveloped.

We've only got 4 acres, mostly wooded and we don't want to cut it all down plus we need space for the house and animals so the maximum growing area will be 1-2 acres. We're starting out with raised beds but I would like an area for some things that lend themselves well to row crops like corn or field crops like grain. Once we get there and survey the land a little better we'll make the determination on where that row/field crop area will be and that will be my compost area.

We'll be using a humanure toilet and making compost asap for next year but I'll probably keep the humanure pile for the following year and just start a separate pile for growing next year since I'm not an experienced composter.
I won't be doing the extreme composting right away due to lack of equipment but that equipment was already on my wish list so it will happen someday.

I already know the area we're moving to and I'm quite sure I can get as much of anything that I'll need for our little homestead. In my case, since I'm a newbie and DW is squeemish, we'll be doing 2 different systems/pile(s). I won't be seeking out any carcasses but I will definitely utilize the occasional expired chicken in the same pile(s) as the humanure along with other household waste. That will be small and well tended and modeled after Joseph Jenkin's double pile system.

Then we'll have the big piles like Forerunner minus the cows and horses that will be used for the veggies and the humanure ones will be used for fruit trees and landscape plants/trees.

What this thread has done for me is make me realize I can turn this 4 acres into a nice little paradise a whole lot quicker than what I was thinking considering the heavy, rock filled clay soil that is the Ozarks.

I've read that one thing that helps heavy clay soils is coarse sand. I'm wondering if that wouldn't help stretch the compost as well. 1/2 compost, 1/4 sand, 1/4 clay as a starter and then nothing but compost added in the following years? Just thinking for fast tracking things in my case and maybe helping those with heavy soil and limited access to organic material.

The other thing this thread has done for me is remind me to take pictures constantly. Not only does it make these threads more interesting but I'm half thinking about flipping our little homestead at some point to start a larger one. The pics would be good documentation. I was already considering flipping it as I really want something bigger but this is all we can afford. Making really big piles is just one more reason. All depends on how the world goes.

If you have a clay soil sand will defnitly help. Clay is the smallest of dirt particles thats why it packs so dense and sand is the largest. Also if u canget silt as well.i would use a third of each get the dirt really workable first and then add compost it will mix more evenly. Ialso add sand to my compost piles to help keep air space and keeps it from clumping as much i screen it so it helps alot.if you dont have a machine how are you going to mix dirt togther a rottatiller or something? If you are i would spread sand silt on top of area and till it in then add compost and till agin.

Unctuous......*chuckle*........ I do love a fellow linguist.

I wouldn't mix sand of clay with my composts, though swamp goo (silt?) may contain some beneficial nutrients and bacteria. Sand could be applied directly in the case of loosening clay.
If I were starting out, and short on equipment, my initial wish list would include the largest loader tractor I could afford, a heavy disc--narrow enough that my tractor could handle with ease, a ripper of some sort with 18 or so inch shanks-but no more shanks than the tractor could pull sustainably, and a harrow to level things up.

I have found deep ripping to be extremely advantageous in clay, both for facilitating drainage and for stirring/mixing organics deeper into heavy mineral soil (clay).
The deep ripping disc (heavy, large diameter disc blades in a narrow frame) does a fantastic job of mixing/blending the upper six to eight inches--perfect for incorporating that two-three inch heavy spread of finished compost, as well as chewing up the late season field trash. The harrow, especially if you have an eye for aesthetics, and more especially if you've never had the pleasure of using one, is God's gift to the tender of soil and builder of Eden/Paradise on earth. There's not much as rewarding as the black sheen of a freshly worked piece of heavily composted ground, with the anticipation of the lush green to come.

John, I'm only 60 miles east of the Mississippi, just off route 9.
I hope we'll have opportunity to meet.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

Well im going to work on trailer brakes on the dumptrailer this weekend. We gotta a warm spell to melt some snow and ice then its going to freeze back up so im going to take advange of this before the construction season starts. I found out that everyone gets spring fever the same time my season starts and its way to busy. I got my track skidsteer running good now. I learned something new alge can grow in fuel tank. I got three horse stables with a winters worth of manure straw and woodchips thats been cooking all winter. Im sure with the warm spell others are going to be getting the itch. I talked with my landlord about buying my shop witch is just a small building that i cant even pull a truckinto to work on and they came up with an astronical number so greenhouse is on hold now im still thinking i might be able to do something with mafia blocks. I dont wanna build anything permant now.

For those that don't have an old dictionary.
Unctuous: Rich in organic matter and easily workable as soil
That's one meaning. Plastic claylike is another.

Yeah, it's gonna be a while before I can afford all that. That's why I'll be starting with/doing mostly raised beds so we can work them by hand.
The going to get organic material will have to be done by hand for now although with the manure, there's a pretty good chance of getting loaded. The sawdust is easy to load by hand. What I do have is a couple of old garden tractors with a few attachments and more available including 12" rear single tine, disc harrow. rake harrow and a seed planter. I have my doubts as to whether it would pull that tine through unbroken clay but maybe a few inches at a time. I've got a dual wheel setup for the back but still need ag tires and to make some wheel weights. I know it will tear up sod with the corner of the rear grader blade. I also have plans/specs for building a loader for it with 6' lift. I should be able to make 7-8' piles. I'll just have to zoom in when I take pics so they look bigger. Also got belly mowers and front dozer blade/snow plow. One's going to stay as a mower and the other will be built up for pulling/pushing/lifting. If I have to I can hire someone to come in and rip it up for me the first time.

Mini mechanized extreme composting?

Once I get that loader built I can set my trailer up so I can drive the tractor right up sideways on the front and have a bed, preferably dump, behind that. Should be able to drive right in most stalls too.

Thank you, John, for correcting my geography.

I do be 60 miles EAST of the ole Miss.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

I thought it was a brain teaser. I found rt 9 and was scratching my head. I went to wiki and found out that the Mississippi used to run where the Illinois now runs. So you're West of the Ol' mis and East of the new Ol' mis.
I had to make it work somehow. Just the way I am.

Well then, by thunder, I am west of the Mississippi.
Now if I could just avoid having to cross that bridge 60 miles west of me when I visit Missouri or Iowa.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

[IMG]http:/C:\Users\User\Pictures\2011-02-19\003.JPG[/IMG] the pile ive been building all winter and no the little dog didnt contribute much

yea apparently that didnt work so if some one can tell me how to post pics that would be awsome. i dont have url i guess so if there is another way?