Extreme Composting

Forerunner · #**761** 01/25/11, 08:01 AM

I'm trying to work about a half acre that I have laid in 4 feet deep with finished material into an orchard......but it keeps getting used as the new pile grounds.....and it keeps getting expanded in three directions....
Hopefully, this spring the project will settle enough to get some cherry volunteers set out permanently.
I have several large piles going, including the three next to the house.
It sure is gratifying to see that snow won't stick even in 0 degree weather.

...... and that the cats love to curl up on top of the piles by the house to keep warm.

luv2farm · #**762** 01/25/11, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorichristie

Forerunner, that rabbit hutch compost experiment was so successful, I am doing it again!

I'd love to know about this! What did you do and how did it work?

ChristieAcres · #**763** 01/25/11, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv2farm

I'd love to know about this! What did you do and how did it work?

My three larger hutches came with my rabbits a few years ago. One houses two larger cages, another three larger cages, and one four cages. These outdoor hutches are up off the ground, with at least three feet of space between the bottoms of the cages and the ground. I have Mini Rexes and a Mini Lop. Every few months, I clean out the chicken house. All that is spread underneath the rabbit hutches. I begin layering it with Comfrey, and any other scraps that normally go in the compost pile. Occasionally, I toss a little straw on top of the piles, shavings, leaves, etc... Since I'll be semi-cleaning out the chicken house this week (leaving a few inches, adding straw on top of that...builds heat in our chicken house), that will go under, and I'll be done adding that material. It will be allowed to compost until Spring, then I will start all over again. Meanwhile, we have two other compost piles, not big ones... Seems my projects keep me needing more!

I asked Forerunner about my manure composting idea, and he encouraged me to move forward with it last year. Thanks! Yes, it worked great, too. Now, with my plans to turn my orchard into a garden, the compost will be right there (hutches are in the orchard).

Forerunner- Enjoy hearing about the cats

Cute! We are experiencing a warm spell, so I am going to take advantage of it. That will be followed by cold weather again before we know it (and lots of rain).

maverickxxx · #**764** 01/25/11, 10:45 PM

Im glad to see im not the only one out there with monster piles of compost. I actually use mine for making topsoil. I got into cause im an excavtor and could never get any good topsoil. It was to sandy no nutrients smelly or grew weeds. I got one pile ready for spring about a thousand yards. I also screen straight compost for peoples gardens. I am actually setting my yard up for my homestead. This year im going to have my first garden on my own property.after reading this im very excited for spring now. The great thing is how people call me back weeks or months later to tell me how its best garden they have or lawn. Some people even bring their lawn clippings or leaves which is even better. I got my fresh pile with no snow on it and weve had about three feet of snow and just got down with two nights -20 and it has broke 30 degrees in almost amonth. Its cooking. I collect all year long i got a couple horse stables i collect from. I hual it all with my mason dump and sometimes with my dump trailer. With both full its about fifteen yards @ a time. I try to move my piles at least a couple times. And it takes me about a year before its burned out. Theres alot of joy in having some of the best soil around. I hope this thread is still going im the spring. Ill have pics then. My ultimate goal is to have my own landscape supply buisness and my own self substaining homestead. I have produced some biodiesel and hopefully have some time to work on some radiant heat out piles and maybe digester for making methane. Of course i got more ---- than anybody. Prolly 2500 ydslol

Forerunner · #**765** 01/26/11, 06:10 AM

Sounds like you're on the right track, Maverick.
We're gunna hold you to those pics......

nebraskafarmer · #**766** 01/27/11, 07:49 PM

Hey, all I have been a long time lurker here on the site and on this thread to be specific. I am what you would call a "commercial farmer" from Nebraska. I also market garden and have for years. I have composted most of my life (although not on the scale that forerunner and mudburn), however, the wife and I recently put in a new house on a wonderful clay hillside closer to some of my farm ground and my composting ambition has been renewed due to the nature of the ground at our new home. I just wanted to introduce myself and to thank the both of you for your efforts on this thread.

James

Forerunner · #**767** 01/28/11, 10:24 AM

Hello James, and, good to have you so enthusiastically aboard.
Many commercial farmers take issue with this approach, if not the suggestion that
composting is the superior approach to long haul food production.

nebraskafarmer · #**768** 01/28/11, 11:51 PM

I wholeheartedly agree that over the long term that the return of organic matter to the soil is the best for fertility. That said as a farmer who is still in business (and one of the few who actually operated on a cash basis rather than mega operating loans leveraging him to the hilt), I know that in order to farm the number of acres that a commercial farmer does in this day and age it becomes necessary to utilize chemical fertilizers. As a compromise of sorts I guess, I don't use any chemical fertilizers, nor insecticide or herbicides in the market garden operation. Also I want to say that I agree very much with the discussion on here that we are running headlong into the day that commercial agriculture as we know it will hit a point of diminishing returns in all aspects including fuel used, soil fertility, etc, etc... So I guess I will continue like most on here to strive for a more self sufficient less dependent lifestyle (still dreaming of the day when I finally talk myself into that oil press to make camelina a worthwhile crop for personal biofuel production). Also on that note I have a question about a post of yours a while back, where you stated that since going offgrid that you use 3-4 gallons of gas a week providing power for your house and shop. Just curious if you only use limited electricity at certain times and most times go without or? That question has just bugged me.

James

Forerunner · #**769** 01/29/11, 08:35 AM

Curiosity understood.

At the time, I was using an old Wisconsin 12.5 horse to run the alternator and occasionally a belt driven air compressor.
I've got a battery bank of larger truck and heavy equipment batteries that I keep charged, and run that current through an inverter to the house.
The air goes to any one or all of several old LP tanks that I've refurbished and fitted for storing that commodity.
Now as to the specifics of your question, we have found, most emphatically, that the best way to facilitate the most sustainable home electricity production is to learn, by and large, to do without electricity.

That said, we generally use our biggest loads, i.e. laundry, heavy duty kitchen blender, light shop tools etc. while the engine is running, and save the batteries for incidentals like radio, laptop, etc.
...and, all told, we were using the amount of gasoline referenced to accomplish those purposes in any given week.
Funny thing, though... that Wisconsin (whose magneto needs rebuilt, I fear) maxed out at about 650 rpms, and we typically ran it about one third throttle after reaching cut-in speed on the alternator. (alternator came from a scrap ambulance and puts out 195 amps in spite of its 165 amp rating)
I have since mounted that over-sized alternator on my diesel 3010 Deere and idle it almost down to a crawl..... which is still over 650 rpm, running the juice through a pair of very heavy duty welding cables to the power house....and we are using less diesel now than we were gasoline before.

Afterthought..... for the main shop, I've acquired a Miller, LP fueled portable welder/generator. I don't use that often, at all, but when I do, (11,000 watts) it's nice.
On the average, we charge the system at the house for about an hour a day.
The 3010 burns one gallon of diesel, at idle, every 4-5 hours.

taylorlambert · #**770** 01/29/11, 03:42 PM

Before we had power at the landfill we used a CHonda/ chinese honda copied 13 hp generator. It would run an airconditioner in the office and few lights in the shop for 8 hrs on 5 gallons of gas. We got an old Studebaker/Onan single cylinder diesel generator. It had a 10 gallon tank and would run at a slow governed idle. It ran for 8 hrs a day for 12 days.

maverickxxx · #**771** 01/30/11, 10:51 AM

I was wondering if anyone has looked into making anysort of digestor to capture methane from piles. Most of my compost comes from manure and then i mix at my shop. It would be nice to get extrme power and hot water from the gaint piles. Has anyone tried anything with running water through piles to get hot water like the jeanpain methods. I havent seen anyone thats actualy made it work 100%

sticky_burr · #**772** 02/01/11, 10:37 AM

i was thinking anaerobic digestor then composting the left overs but not sure if there is enough nitrogen left

Forerunner · #**773** 02/01/11, 10:52 AM

Plenty of nitrogen left...... enough, in fact, that an addition of an equal part carbon will get you as nice a steaming pile of compost as can be had.
Spent slurry from anaerobic digesters is far better composted than spread in it's raw form.
Think of the stuff as being similar to the spent contents of your stomach after a few days therein...... see what I mean ?

As for the doing, don't wait for the movie.
Write the books yourselves.

Phantomfyre · #**774** 02/01/11, 06:04 PM

This thread needs a disclaimer: May cause intense compost envy and/or encourage the acquisition of large equipment. I've been following this for a long time, and am finally just posting now to subscribe so I don't miss updates.

I've been busy and out of town since posting the dump trailer thread, but am home now and going to pursue purchasing one and securing sources of large quantities of organic matter. Shouldn't be too hard...

One idea I'm playing with is using composting in my unheated greenhouse as a heat source to moderate the temp in there. Took a while to get things cooking because I started with cold materials in January, but the approximately 3.5 ft. square pile (in a bin made with pallets) is going now. Future ideas include pumping water through lines coiled inside the compost pile and into barrels to add heat to the thermal mass that water already provides.

Thanks for the inspiration, Forerunner! And to everyone who has contributed!

Trisha in WA · #**775** 02/01/11, 08:07 PM

Phantomfyre, that is a great idea! I have a very small greenhouse and I bet that would work very well. In fact, we have not yet put the cover on this new greenhouse and one side (raised bed) is yet to be filled. I bet if I were to put the right mix in there, it would warm up nicely and be ready for planting by summer. I am planning to plant on the side that is filled as soon as the snow melts off of it (we'll be putting the plastic on this month).

Rusty'sDog · #**776** 02/02/11, 04:50 AM

Many farmers in Austria take the marc (pomace...the leftovers from fermenting grapes for wine) and pile it in their barns. It will keep their livestock warm all winter. Then they plow it under in the spring to add organic material & nutrients to their soil. Sustainable use of a vineyard: some wine, warm cows, and rich garden beds for next year's crop.
If we keep throwing away valuable natural resources, the time will come that we will depend on chemicals!

Phantomfyre · #**777** 02/02/11, 11:29 AM

Taking the compost-for-heat idea one step farther: it is known that low tunnels or a Remay-type blanket on plants inside a hoop house can add a few degrees of additional protection. Lots of people are doing that. But what if you build hot frames inside? Like cold frames, but dug out deeply and the soil replaced with at least 8" of manure to compost below a few inches of soil, warming the soil and the inside of the frame.

Also thinking that keeping chickens in a part of the greenhouse during winter could add heat, and also provide compost materials on site. (Could easily also be rabbits.) In early spring, chicks. If you're going to run a heat lamp anyway, might as well use that lost heat for something useful, right? And, to stay on topic (compost), chicks need their bedding cleaned and replaced often. Toss it in the bin - keeping a good carbon:nitrogen ratio, of course, so it heats.

My goal is not a warm greenhouse, but to see if I can keep things from freezing, even on cold, cloudy, snowy days. (Like today!) And it's just plain fun to putter with ideas and soil and compost in the dead of winter!

fishhead · #**778** 02/02/11, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickxxx

I was wondering if anyone has looked into making anysort of digestor to capture methane from piles. Most of my compost comes from manure and then i mix at my shop. It would be nice to get extrme power and hot water from the gaint piles. Has anyone tried anything with running water through piles to get hot water like the jeanpain methods. I havent seen anyone thats actualy made it work 100%

I haven't had a chance to build my sawdust pile yet but we did dig into a sawdust pile at a small sawmill that was at least 20 years old. It got so hot it burned our hands and we had to stop digging. I think a large pile would provide heat for decades.

taylorlambert · #**779** 02/02/11, 07:06 PM

Many a gallon of whiskey have been made in a sawdust pile back in the day to the present. I have a large pile at work individual loads that we use on the roads at the landfill for wet weather roads. Whats save after it gets wet we pile it up and use for a daily cover. It gets pretty hot. THeres a pile there thats been there a year and turned 2 times. Its a nice chocolate brown color. It smells a bit like alcohol from the break down. Im bringing a few lods of it home when the weather fairs a bit. Id like to make a water heater like this but I think it would need to be turned several times to re heat.

fishhead · #**780** 02/03/11, 07:52 AM

The sawdust pile we dug into was never turned. It stayed where it landed after going through the blower at least 20 years before we dug into it.

There's another huge sawdust pile in town that still catches fire and it is at least pre-1970's.

I think it gets it's nitrogen from rainwater so it breaks down over a longer period of time.

If you got any sawmills in your area ask them if you can dig into the pile. Find the oldest stuff and see if it's still heating.