Extreme Composting

Rusty'sDog · #**721** 12/26/10, 10:19 PM

RE: chipper/shredder. For a small scale operation, almost anything (other than a home owner's back yard model) will do. I was looking @ a brand that had a 2", and 3" limb capacity model avail. I was opting for the 3" model, because it is built more solidly than the 2" model...and face it, anything over 2" is going to be fuel wood for me. It would have been perfect for feeding material onto the pile. Now that I have become addicted to this thread, I realize that it had a major 'design flaw': it discharged the finished product at, or near ground level. Now, I need one that will throw its discharge UP into a truck bed (pick-up, or dump).

A serious consideration should be tow-ability. Any decent shredder will give a 10:1 ratio. If you can tow it to/from your material site, that means you can make one trip instead of ten trips...gas savings will pay it off quickly (to say nothing of time savings).

I think my bottom line is to look at the one you think will best serve you...and then buy the next model up from that. Otherwise, you will end up buying both, and the first will sit, rusting, in your barn. Buy once (the proper one), not twice.

Rusty'sDog · #**722** 12/26/10, 10:23 PM

The thing about this thread that amazes me, is the number of farmers (people that should know better) that will allow you to haul off tons of (what should be) a valuable commodity.

sticky_burr · #**723** 12/27/10, 12:04 AM

i was thinking much bigger as when i doze up root balls/stumps up when on new land if i can find it. along with if i take down a rotten tree for $ or half rotten . i would rather toss as big chunks into it along with any "scrap" 6x6 and 8x8 (chunks and peices) right into it.

OH heres one .. i cant use mahogany and teak in the pile .. right ... ship yards around here

Forerunner · #**724** 12/27/10, 03:52 AM

The Canadian "Wallenstein" chipper is much less expensive, but the "Valby" does an incredible job of reducing the material to near sawdust consistency.
I believe the quality to be high in either machine.
If you can afford it, or have time to watch for used machines, I would highly recommend a tub grinder, though.....much more versatile and built to handle h*** as a matter of course.

taylorlambert · #**725** 12/27/10, 09:17 AM

SWe were about to get tub grinder ath the landfill I manage to reduce some of the wood waste. And pregrind the surplus for easier compaction and we have to have a liuttle wood in the fill to maximize compaction. I went to a site and wastch one in dr waste and it was amazxing but this one stayed on fire lol. THe wood would get hot and catch. It wil lbe a few more months before I get my pass on it if things go well.

The best part of it that all the big stumps we get I can grind and bring home.

Forerunner · #**726** 12/27/10, 10:47 AM

I've wanted an industrial tub for some time now (as opposed to agricultural--much lighter duty), but, as I was telling the fellow at the sale barn the other day..... time will accomplish the same thing. We were discussing tubs, as he has one for grinding hay.

I've seen what I believe to be low end serviceable units go for anywhere from ten grand to fifty, and, of course, the big rigs in mint condition get crazy at three to five hundred grand.
The deal is, perfect mixture of materials; no blades to sharpen daily, if not twice a day;
MUCH more horsepower; reduce a full-sized carcass to paste and grit, while simultaneously mixing the same with carbon

; and, like Sticky Bur mentioned..... throw in a whole stump or root ball, dirt and all, and forget about it.

Wow.

Makes me break out in a cold sweat.

mudburn · #**727** 12/27/10, 01:09 PM

Forerunner, that is a beautiful thing to imagine! That'd be better than new knitting needles!

I can imagine another scenario in which you fabricate your own tub grinder. I'm thinking an old dump truck or semi as the basic frame and power unit, a heavy duty tub constructed out of salvaged materials, and a whole lot of ingenuity which you possess in great quantity. I can visualize the beauty of the monster you could create and the sounds as you joyfully toss in a carcass or two and a stump. . . Ahh, pure bliss!

When do you need me to come help? I'm thinkin' good times!

mudburn

Forerunner · #**728** 12/27/10, 06:13 PM

Knitting needles are MUCH cheaper and more readily available, but.......

I have concocted many a salvage yard tub grinder in my imagination.
Let's let the weather settle a bit.... maybe after syrupping, right before the gardening dam breaks wide open.

I have a tandem AND a single axle, both dump truck frames.... to work with.
*whisling innocently*

taylorlambert · #**729** 12/27/10, 08:25 PM

Forerunner I may know of a burnt tub grinder its a smaller one. It had a 290 Cummins on it and a friend bougfht the motor to go in an old scraper. Imagine the sound of it wit ha Detroit on it. It runs standard teeth. SOme of the bearings on the tub may be goin out but they are standards.

It was mounted on an old self propelled Prentice log loader frame. It was set up at a MRF site used to grind windrows that were dumped out. It put shredded matter into another windrow. I think a windrow caught fire next to it and burnt it. I think the conveyor belt is a little damaged to. It would be a good buy at scrap price. Id like to have it for the farm but work will get a new larger one like a Wood Hog.
I think the one that is salvaged is a Bandit or Brandt.

Forerunner · #**730** 12/27/10, 08:35 PM

Way too many irons in this fire to be able to take advantage of that at this point in time.
Can't you make a go of an opportunity like that so close to home ?

taylorlambert · #**731** 12/27/10, 08:50 PM

Insufficient funds here lol. Ive got to repair some termite damage to my old house and a living room to remodel. And I Have 2 dump beds to build a green house to remodel and My dream I want to buy and old excavator under carriage to make a windrow turner. I may see what the low ball on the grinder is, I could I cant skip the remodel Or my wife would compost me lol.

Ive been saving material and hydraulics to build such a turner. I have a question for you . In the picture of your road building what Make is your dirt pan and the Yardage and HP requirement. Im looking at one to save it from the scrap yard.

am1too · #**732** 12/27/10, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyld thang

the model in this thread is a few people practicing ongoing hoarding of compost resources from a wide land area. Meanwhile, the land the materials were taken from do not benefit from those composting resources. Stuff is concentrated in a few areas. The question I like to ask with a method (in this case my "issue" is hoarding) is can it be done with everybody doing it. After all, don't y'all want everyone to compost? In the future a lot more everybody will be (forced) to grow their own and heal the land. Ongoing hoarding is unsustainable--it is indeed unworkable on a large scale.

I think it's entirely worthwhile to consider an action against traditional "viewpoints" such as conservation, "social justice" (for a lack of a better word--I just mean hoarding takes resources out of the hands of other people, or makes them fight for them), sharing, knowledge of the cycles of the land, even things like gluttony come into play.

Again, the simple question, can everyone in an area do this(hoard and concentrate materials from hither and yon). Obviously no. Does nature do this? no.

That is not to say there isn't a lot of good composting science going on in this thread, albeit a "little" weighted towards upper midwest climate and plants etc. Nor am I saying it's "wrong" to gather stuff to jumpstart some sick land. Just stating IMO that this action of "extreme composting"(ongoing hoarding) is the action of an elite few among their village to concentrate composting wealth.

Whoever can decide for themselves if that is traditionally affirmative, or even worth thinking about. I'm glad to see a few have.

In grass cutting season the city trash amount nearly doubles do to grass clippings. To make use of this is not hoarding anything. It just goes to the land fill and increases garbage colledtion fees to deal with it. A town near my place collects yard waste seperately and save a bundle on land fill. They compost it. All you can haul if you load it for free twice a year. Makes the city look better. And helps me to. I drug maybe 30 cubic yards home for spring and could have had 10 times that. Just lack time and money. I could use probably a few thousand tons.

If you want to do your own compost, they will load up all the pregorund and mixed material you can haul. Their stock pile even caught fire once or twice.

Forerunner · #**733** 12/27/10, 10:36 PM

Taylor, my little pan is an Ashland, 5 yard. My 150 horse 4630 Deere does a pretty satisfactory job with it. In drier times and harder clay, I rip the area where I'm getting the dirt and that makes the loading much more efficient, but usually, it loads fine by itself.
I have rigged up and tied into the ripper circuit on my dozer..... half the horsepower, and with the crawler under carriage, pulled the pan just as well, just slower.

Am1..... good to see that you're on board with reality.
Make use, not waste.....

taylorlambert · #**734** 12/28/10, 12:01 AM

Thanks Forerunner I bet the pan did great behind the dozer. When dad was 15 he started running an old TD18 with a 10 yard pan. Im sick of seeing all the good implements going overseas. Im thinking about getting a bigger tractor and this pan. I have access to the self loading JD scraper at work but its a pain to get a lowboy to move it.

Am1 ditto on what Forerunner said. I manage and operate a private land fill and we started taking from some of the public and the city yard waste pick up. In the summer and fall it doubles like you said.
Its not hoarding as folks wont get out and pick it up. We get the material free and Im not certified to compost at our site. I bring it home and compost it. I know a lot of folks in town that want compost but wont even rake their leaves for it. THey will rake them and curbside them though.

jlrbhjmnc · #**735** 12/28/10, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylorlambert

I know a lot of folks in town that want compost but wont even rake their leaves for it. THey will rake them and curbside them though.

Yep - when you ask to take away folks' grass clippings and leaves for composting, you get some funny looks. We've become so conditioned to buying instead of doing! This thread (and HT in general) has helped our family train our minds differently and we're having a blast.

am1too · #**736** 12/29/10, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taylorlambert

Thanks Forerunner I bet the pan did great behind the dozer. When dad was 15 he started running an old TD18 with a 10 yard pan. Im sick of seeing all the good implements going overseas. Im thinking about getting a bigger tractor and this pan. I have access to the self loading JD scraper at work but its a pain to get a lowboy to move it.

Am1 ditto on what Forerunner said. I manage and operate a private land fill and we started taking from some of the public and the city yard waste pick up. In the summer and fall it doubles like you said.
Its not hoarding as folks wont get out and pick it up. We get the material free and Im not certified to compost at our site. I bring it home and compost it. I know a lot of folks in town that want compost but wont even rake their leaves for it. THey will rake them and curbside them though.

Thanks for the welcome from both of you.

I am curious as to how one might convince a small town to seperate yard waste for a possible fee or free pick up or seperate delivery.

Forerunner · #**737** 12/29/10, 10:23 PM

Thanks to EPA (wonders never cease) it is actually "illegal" almost everywhere, if not.... to mix yard waste with regular landfill waste. Of course, that may be just Illinois, so close do I follow the progress of the nation's over-regulated status.

If your particular municipality does not separate the material, you may just have to bite the bullet and take the initiative to make your case for reason.
You may be surprised at the cooperation that is afforded you.
You may be shot down immediately.

Personally, I'd just wade right in and start sorting the stuff out, myself, until someone came forward with enough clout to dissuade my efforts.

sticky_burr · #**738** 12/30/10, 09:21 AM

unfortunately here the town possesses a stone quarry, probably came with a huge cost, where building debris and stumps are thrown .. along with a few way ward cars in winter (RIP). although i bet there is some nice organic matter in the bottom along with lead and asbestos. we're all safe as long as granite is not at all cracked or porous.

would planting a legume on a pile die from the heat?
how would one pump in a very controlled matter black water/septic sludge onto a pile? i wouldnt put town sludge onto it but our own wouldnt be so bad..
if one was able to set up a biogas digestor for human/animal waste would there be enough nitrogen left to compost?
thanks again

Forerunner · #**739** 12/30/10, 03:05 PM

I like to plant on top of piles that have aged for several months.
Your success growing anything on a compost pile will depend largely on how well C and N were balanced when the pile was built. The exception is a pile that has sat for a long time...

Running household grey water through compost is a good idea.... IF your piles consist of enough mass to handle the volume of water, and heat enough to clean that water up suitably. My advice would be to switch to as natural of soaps and cleaners as you possibly can and work on cutting your water usage tremendously.
We're down to an average of less than 25 gallons a day for a family of seven, so, it can be done.
Methane production is said to potentially enhance N to the point that further composting is often preferred to balance and buffer that potent ingredient.
I'd say, half spent sludge/half sawdust. What a blend.

am1too · #**740** 12/30/10, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty'sDog

RE: chipper/shredder. For a small scale operation, almost anything (other than a home owner's back yard model) will do. I was looking @ a brand that had a 2", and 3" limb capacity model avail. I was opting for the 3" model, because it is built more solidly than the 2" model...and face it, anything over 2" is going to be fuel wood for me. It would have been perfect for feeding material onto the pile. Now that I have become addicted to this thread, I realize that it had a major 'design flaw': it discharged the finished product at, or near ground level. Now, I need one that will throw its discharge UP into a truck bed (pick-up, or dump).

A serious consideration should be tow-ability. Any decent shredder will give a 10:1 ratio. If you can tow it to/from your material site, that means you can make one trip instead of ten trips...gas savings will pay it off quickly (to say nothing of time savings).

I think my bottom line is to look at the one you think will best serve you...and then buy the next model up from that. Otherwise, you will end up buying both, and the first will sit, rusting, in your barn. Buy once (the proper one), not twice.

Those are usually bolt together plates. I would look close and see if it could be flipped without to much trouble. Or how about setting it up on some blocks or change the shoot.