Extreme Composting

uncle · #**621** 08/22/10, 08:03 AM

I too see the need for some extreme composting and have a couple questions.
I've read the entire thread twice now and have a better understanding.
Are Pine needles good or bad for compost? I can get more than I need but I never saw anything growing in pine needles.
Second, My land has not been worked in 20+ years other than bush hogging once a year. When the time comes to spread the compost, would you disc the area then spread and disc again? Would you just spread and use a turning plow?
I'm planning ahead as I haven't started with anything.

Great thread!
Brian

Forerunner · #**622** 08/22/10, 08:38 AM

Hello Brian.

Pine needles make a satisfactory carbon source, but they are a little higher in acid than most. Thorough, hot composting will balance some of that and finished compost helps to buffer unfavorable pH. I don't have any experience with large quantities of pine needles, but if I had access, I would make use and see for myself what comes of it.
I assume you are in pine country.... do you know the pH of your soil ?
If it's alkaline, all the better for receiving the pine needles.
If I was in your situation, I'd take the pine needles and mix them with whatever nitrogen source I had, plus any other source of carbon that was available.
Reduce your percentages, if possible.

As for incorporating the finished material, I would spread a layer 3-5 inches thick and plow it in the first time. Then let that get rained on to blend and stabilize, add another lighter layer of compost and hit it again with the disc. Then spread and disc as the material comes available after that.
My approach, at this point, is to get as much organic matter worked into the soil as possible. Any imbalances that I have experienced alleviate themselves in a short time.
I'm not concerned with this year's perfect crop, or next..... but to have extremely fertile black 5 years from now and beyond. That said, the natural green manure growth that has been coming up between discings here has been phenomenal.

anvoj · #**623** 08/22/10, 09:20 AM

Are you sure pine needles are acid? That's what I always thought too, but was told by a pro gardener in northern MN that they are actually ph neutral. He uses them in his heavy mulching system. I don't know from personal experience, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

Forerunner · #**624** 08/22/10, 01:24 PM

Everything I've ever heard was that pine needles leaned toward the acid side, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were just a little more innocent than widely believed. It's not unheard of for those who put the metal to the grindstone to find that commonly held dogma isn't always accurate.

Either way, well composted and aged, I'd use them in my operation if I had access.

mudburn · #**625** 08/22/10, 02:22 PM

I've heard it said that pine needles are acidic, too. So, I just did a little searching. Seems it is a myth. Here are a couple informative links:

Pine needles in the compost

Pine needle acidity: myth or reality?

If I had them available, I'd also use them.

mudburn

froggyfarmgirl · #**626** 08/22/10, 04:25 PM

I read a book recently that had a bit on composting that made me totally think of this thread. It said NEVER EVER put meat, or fecal matter, or urine of ANY type into compost. I thought that might give ya'll a little giggle. I'm not even a miniature composter at this point, but from reading this thread I knew that was..well, crap! Pun intended

Linkon · #**627** 08/22/10, 06:42 PM

Ok, I went and got a load of the horse manure over the weekend. Its very nice and mixed with saw dust bedding. I will have a constant source for this material and it will supply me all I will ever need. He also has some straw bedding and rotten hay I can get if I want to.

Anyhow, I brought home a nice pick-up truck load and mixed it in with the stuff I already had. I did layers - a layer of the manure, then a layer of the stuff I already had, then a layer of manure, etc, etc, etc. I watered each layer with the hose befor adding another layer.

How long should it take for this thing to start heating up? I have a pile about 8' long, 8' wide and 4' high. I'm going to go get a few more loads next weekend but I'm going to use it to start a new pile in a new garden i'm going to till this week.

uncle · #**628** 08/22/10, 07:22 PM

Thanks for the reply Forerunner. I do not know the ph, but it looks like a lot of red clay but with enough loam to not be real hard. It plows easy enough as I hit it in a couple small spots to see what was under the surface.
Our Land fill has a dedicated spot for grass. leaves, etc. that I can get but being there are a lot of pines around I thought I would ask about the pine needles. I'm sure I can get some good stuff and now that I know about the pine needles, I can rest a little easier.
Brian

Forerunner · #**629** 08/22/10, 08:40 PM

Good to hear from Mudburn.

Someone occasionally dumps a load of pine needles at the Canton yard waste, and I just mix them right in. I'd say we've covered the pine needle issue adequately.

Froggy, pull up that chair over there. You're one of the guys, now.
You just set those flatlanders straight any time you hear 'em talking trash about composting the good stuff.

Linkon, you're on the fast track now. From what you've described, that pile should be heating within hours, not days. The material list you gave us should put you straight into business for the duration. Your last line brings up a good point....
For those with limited equipment, build those piles right on the edge, preferably the upper edge, of your garden. We don't want to lose any of that good tea, and it's nice to just pitch fork the stuff where you need it come spring.
Compost tea brings up another good book that I don't think I've mentioned yet.
"Ten Acres Enough", by Edmund Morris.
Now that dude was an extreme composter, LOONNNNG before mechanization made it fun. The book is written circa 1850 by a man who moved from big city business life to small farm produce marketing. You'll get quite a kick out of his work ethic.
But, his hired man, "Dick", takes the cake.
These boys knew how to work a piece of ground.

Brian, I'm sure if you mix your available ingredients you won't have any problems.
Good to hear that dirt isn't starting out like concrete. It might not take much to bring it right around.

Linkon · #**630** 08/23/10, 03:58 PM

Wooohoo!

I got home from work today and stuck my hand down into my pile and it was HOT. That is sooooo cool!

Thanks for your help Forerunner!

Forerunner · #**631** 08/23/10, 07:28 PM

Linkon, I'm not a bit surprised.

I never doubted you fer one second.

Glad to be of service.

JDog1222 · #**632** 08/25/10, 07:21 AM

http://cwmi.css.cornell.edu/roadkillfs.pdf

WOW, I did not know that the best way to keep our surface and ground water SAFE is to COMPOST dead animals!

Forerunner · #**633** 08/25/10, 08:53 AM

Welcome to the real world, JDog.

Panhandler · #**634** 08/25/10, 01:37 PM

Would mulched up limbs provided courtesy of The SUNSHINE STATE, on the side of highways do just as well as sawdust with my rabbit pellets? Passed by crew 2 miles down road mulching 1 mile stretch of limbs.

Forerunner · #**635** 08/25/10, 08:55 PM

Those grindings will take a little longer to break down, but they'll work just fine.

They make great mulch and garden paths.

Euphony · #**636** 08/27/10, 04:18 PM

WHEW! I just finished reading this thread and had to finally register here so I could post a reply thanking you! Forerunner you have certainly inspired me with both your story and your actions. Seeing your boys climbing the mounds and emulating you by spreading compost on flowers etc warms my heart considerably. I think it's great that mudburn was inspired to start a project on a similar level to you and that you two seem to have made friends along the way

I myself am an avid composter and I collect what I can but live in an urban rental home where my landlords barely let me get away with having two modest compost piles (thankfully they shrink and get used hehe). I loved seeing not only the massive compost piles but the pictures of your plots with spread compost and proper mulching. I can't believe how few of the organic gardeners here in Portland mulch their gardens - something I find to be indispensable in my own garden. I have worked doing landscaping before and think it's humorous that people are paying quite a bit to dump yard debris and then paying even more to get it back as compost. I've definitely been ordered to rake up and mow multi-acre lots and to make sure I haul away all the debris when there are even hidden areas for compost heaps.

I would love to see some more pictures go up in this thread. I think it would really revive its original spirit

I definitely had more to say but wanted to read the thread in its entirety before I ventured to post - maybe it'll come to me later

EDIT: Since I suggested posting more photos, here's a photo from my own compost heap

Having a small compost, they continue digesting organic matter even when my compost falls below the hot composting threshold. Extreme Composting - Homesteading Questions

Extreme Composting - Homesteading Questions

Forerunner · #**637** 08/27/10, 05:46 PM

Welcome aboard, Euphony.

Always good to have another avid with us. Your worm population tells all.

I agree, we need more pics.
Any volunteers ?

Lloyd J. · #**638** 08/28/10, 04:37 PM

As I am new to this forum, I'd better ask, are embedded or linked pictures preferred?

I usually do the linked so that dial-ups can choose not to look if they've seen it before but if embedded is preferred I'm sure I can figure out how.

Lloyd

seedspreader · #**639** 08/28/10, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd J.

As I am new to this forum, I'd better ask, are embedded or linked pictures preferred?

I usually do the linked so that dial-ups can choose not to look if they've seen it before but if embedded is preferred I'm sure I can figure out how.

Lloyd

All you can do is linked.

Lloyd J. · #**640** 08/29/10, 09:26 AM

Sorry, I used poor phraseology, is it preferred to have a click-able link to go to a picture or have the picture displayed within a post?

Lloyd