Extreme Composting

Forerunner · #**381** 05/25/10, 10:47 AM

Perfect.

Glad to have you aboard.

michelleIL · #**382** 05/26/10, 12:16 AM

two spirit in the traditional native american way I take it?

twospirit · #**383** 05/26/10, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelleIL

two spirit in the traditional native american way I take it?

Quite observant of you. Good call.

bernice13 · #**384** 05/26/10, 09:31 AM

This is an amazing thread. Thank you, Forerunner. I have a very ignorant, newby question. When you spread the compost on your garden, do you need to put mulch OVER it to keep the weeds from growing? Or does the compost itself count as mulch? Can I plant, say, a bean plant, and then just put a big pile of finished compost all around the plant stem and expect not to have grass and weeds growing right up to it? Or should I put straw / chipped wood or something on top of the compost?

Forerunner · #**385** 05/26/10, 09:38 AM

Properly heated compost won't allow many weed seeds to survive.
Compost should be tilled in, but can be used as a side dressing after planting.
It shouldn't be used for top mulching if for no other reason than it is simply too valuable. When I top dress with compost, I always cover with a more benign, carbon-based mulch to protect my compost from sunlight.
That top dressing (leaves, straw, light coat of sawdust, woodchips, etc.)
also serves as the final weed suppressant, conserves moisture and feeds the worms for the duration.

michelleIL · #**386** 05/26/10, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twospirit

Quite observant of you. Good call.

Something I learned in college...don't know if it did me any good to learn it...wish I could have learned of folk medicine instead!

Trisha in WA · #**387** 06/01/10, 11:51 PM

Speak to me please of composting ashes and charcoal from a slash pile. We burned several piles along the lake shore and it really needs to be cleaned up a little more, but I am concerned with how that might make my new and growing compost pile get really out of balance. My pile consists of probably 60% old dry hay and the rest is wet fresh cow manure and kitchen scraps. It is pretty small still and the chickens work at it everyday. Please advise.
Thanks,
Trisha

Forerunner · #**388** 06/02/10, 12:59 AM

Spread your clean ash and light charcoal directly on soil that you want to sweeten.
Ash reacts with nitrogen, driving it out of the pile and into the atmosphere.
Very seldom do I mix ashes with my compost....and even when I do, likely enough I shouldn't.

Trisha in WA · #**389** 06/02/10, 09:59 AM

Thank you Forerunner. It just didn't feel right adding it to the compost pile.
We have very acidic soil due to all the pine trees, so I will spread it on the ground where I hope to put raised beds for a late (read Fall) garden.

wyld thang · #**390** 06/05/10, 12:55 PM

Thanks for finally posting some garden pics

I'm curious about your machinery you use, the tractors, bulldozer etc. This thread has gotten so long to read through to see if you haven't already talked abotu it--so sorry if you have.

So what is a complete list of equipiment you use to handle all this, do you own it or rent or barter/borrow use of.

Do you wrench your own machines? how do you get parts when you need them, salvage? machine new stuff to jerry rig?

Does the net from your crops pay for fuel, repair, tires, fluids? Where do you salvage hydraulic fluid from? (we use trash oil from vehicles and used to have a GM mech friend who would bring us their trash oil, also have used old cooking oil). This includes fuel to collect compost materials. How much do you have delivered?

Do you barter equipment work for goods or services? (we have done this)

Do you feel composting action breaks down leaked oil and hydraulic fluid sufficiently?

Forerunner · #**391** 06/05/10, 04:08 PM

I believe most of those questions could be answered by a thorough reread of this thread.
But I am curious, for whom are you seemingly attempting to collect so much of my asset-related information all at once ?

As for composting oils, they have to be in the thick and heat of the pile.
Where so composted, they do often disappear without a trace.

wyld thang · #**392** 06/05/10, 04:30 PM

I could care less about your assets. I was simply asking about the practical issues of shoving all that compost around. Not everyone has the equipment to do it. If they want the equipment they need to know how to support that equipment and make it "pay". Obviously you need the equipment to manage that volume of compost.

Oil in compost--so you've had the compost tested for oil residue? Sure you're not going to "see" anything. Doesn't mean it ain't there. I'm talking diesel and hydraulic, NOT vegetable/fry oil. Because I'm sure you don't have spanking brand new equipment. Old stuff leaks.

Forerunner · #**393** 06/05/10, 04:43 PM

Joseph Jenkins in his "Humanure Handbook" goes into detail about how well microbes can completely digest industrial oils. Industrial oils are what I was referring to, as well.

As for the level at which I have chosen to compost, and the equipment required, who ever said anyone had to go to matching extremes ? If they do, they will, as a matter of necessity, either have the money or the time to learn and acquire what they need.

I thought you were a big proponent for zero composting.
Why all the sudden interest ?

A simple, 50-70 horse loader tractor and a couple dump wagons....or a one ton truck with a dump bed, would be my recommendations for getting started in a productive way. That said, a pitch fork and hand cart can accomplish a lot in a day.
I still use both.

mudburn · #**394** 06/05/10, 05:24 PM

Composting does not require expensive machines. Extreme composting doesn't require expensive machines, either, but it is easier to handle and move the volume of material with the aid of machinery. That machinery does not have to be expensive, and those who value soil fertility will find ways of acquiring the necessary equipment. Said equipment would likely include a pitchfork and shovel to begin with and on a recurring basis thereafter.

Within the last year I have invested money in my composting efforts because I have been blessed through Forerunner's sharing of his endeavors with a vision of what is possible. I now have a great desire to build up the fertility of the soil on my homestead. The most important of my investments was a loader tractor in which I have invested $4,000, including a brand new set of rear tires. I also bought a dump truck in order to haul more at a time ($3,000), but one could argue that it wasn't necessary.

My yearly income during the last several years has been below $20,000 per year. It is through frugality and hard work and the blessings of God that I had the money to invest in composting. It's a small price to pay for what I see as important returns that are yet to be realized.

If I was only concerned with spreading 4"-6" of compost only on my gardens every year (or one year), I could have accomplished that without the addition of equipment. I have a 3/4 ton truck with a dump bed, a 16' trailer (and the ingenuity to unload it), and a tractor to which I can attach a grader blade. I also have a scoop shovel and a pitch fork.

I am not concerned about the presence of oils in my compost piles, nor would it be worth having the compost tested for oil. In the overall scheme of things, these are very minor concerns. The amount of mistreatment through the application of excessive amounts of chemicals and the exportation of fertility with little or no importation affecting so much farm land during the last few generations renders any worry about possible exposure to or inclusion of limited amounts of hydraulic fluid, diesel fuel, or motor oil frivolous.

One of these days, it may very well become practically impossible for me to use some/much/all of my machinery, at which point I will invest a lot more sweat equity in order to compost on a smaller scale than what I have currently undertaken. Before that time comes, I desire to have hauled in as much material, built as many compost piles, and spread as much finished compost as possible. In order to feed my family and others who have need, the fertility of the soil will be our greatest asset. There is no time to waste. . .

mudburn

wyld thang · #**395** 06/05/10, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forerunner

Joseph Jenkins in his "Humanure Handbook" goes into detail about how well microbes can completely digest industrial oils. Industrial oils are what I was referring to, as well.

As for the level at which I have chosen to compost, and the equipment required, who ever said anyone had to go to matching extremes ? If they do, they will, as a matter of necessity, either have the money or the time to learn and acquire what they need.

I thought you were a big proponent for zero composting.
Why all the sudden interest ?

A simple, 50-70 horse loader tractor and a couple dump wagons....or a one ton truck with a dump bed, would be my recommendations for getting started in a productive way. That said, a pitch fork and hand cart can accomplish a lot in a day.
I still use both.

thank you. I simply was thinking of other people wanting to do this on the scale you portray, what kind of resources and energy does it take. You know trying to be helpful. Personally I use a pitchfork and a hoe and a wheelbarrow. I've been reading your thread, got lost for the last several pages and wanted to ask a question. Sheesh, first I get blasted for no interest, then I get blasted for asking a question.

I didn't say zero composting. Go back and read what I said.

misplaced · #**396** 06/06/10, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyld thang

Thanks for finally posting some garden pics

Finally?
Just feeling particularly ornery.

Bluebird · #**397** 06/06/10, 04:39 PM

Forerunner,
I was looking back on some of this post and noticed it looks like you have a hammermill that you use to schred leaves and hammer bones? Since there is one on this farm and not in use now, wondering if I might used it for that/those purposes.

paintboy · #**398** 06/06/10, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyld thang

thank you. I simply was thinking of other people wanting to do this on the scale you portray, what kind of resources and energy does it take. You know trying to be helpful. Personally I use a pitchfork and a hoe and a wheelbarrow. I've been reading your thread, got lost for the last several pages and wanted to ask a question. Sheesh, first I get blasted for no interest, then I get blasted for asking a question.

I didn't say zero composting. Go back and read what I said.

you kind of asked a lot of questions which seemed to be loaded. Read the thread. I know it's long but there is a huge amount of valuable info and you will be able to answer most of your questions. I for one am grateful for furerunner and mudburn sharing how they do it. I see how hard they work for their farms and families and it inspires me to keep going knowing that there are like minded people out there.

Forerunner · #**399** 06/06/10, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebird

Forerunner,
I was looking back on some of this post and noticed it looks like you have a hammermill that you use to schred leaves and hammer bones? Since there is one on this farm and not in use now, wondering if I might used it for that/those purposes.

Mine works great for bones. The only leaves I tried were just a tad damp. Worked until the screen plugged.
Mine is a heavy old Bear Cat, and handles large cow bones well.
If you've a lighter model, I'd start with smallish bones and work my way up to a cow leg. The process does make a fine bonemeal product, and I'm due to run a few barrels of dry bones.

wyld thang · #**400** 06/06/10, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintboy

you kind of asked a lot of questions which seemed to be loaded. Read the thread. I know it's long but there is a huge amount of valuable info and you will be able to answer most of your questions. I for one am grateful for furerunner and mudburn sharing how they do it. I see how hard they work for their farms and families and it inspires me to keep going knowing that there are like minded people out there.

loaded--I'm on another gardening forum which had a great thread on the economics in farming/selling/equipment costs/payback/scale etc. It was a great thread because people actually discussed the practical nuts and bolts--or, "the sustainability of theory", and I thought it would be a good question in this thread. At 14 pages it's getting unweildy to read through and gather info like this--it's always good to gather and sum up periodically in such a long thread anyways(unless, apparently, the wrong person asks the question).

but, whatever, this isn't the first thread I've been bucked off of for saying "count the cost before taking on responsibility".