Extreme Composting

gimpyrancher · #**3481** 01/08/15, 11:51 AM

Last year I brought in about 60 cu yds of old horse ranch collections to my property. I dumped it all in one place on the property. Property is second growth pine that has become overgrown with small trees.

I also have a house in town with large trees that produce a lot of leaves and small branches every year. I've been hauling it up to the property and dumping it in another location. It also includes a bunch of old fallen logs that are so old that they seem to weigh almost nothing. Great rain sponge material.

Now I've been cutting a fence line (will be about 1/2-3/4 mile long) and 10 to 12ft wide and going to use that as my future road to where we plan on building our log home. Pushing over pine trees from a couple of inches in diameter to over a foot in diameter so far.

Now it's time to start limbing those trees and perhaps chipping them to add to another pile. All of this and all the dead fallen trees all over the property will be used to combine all the piles and create a real meaningful compost pile for future use.

Most of the property is fairly barren except for the pine forest with lots of weeds and lots of old fallen trees. It's high desert land. Can't wait to start posting pictures of my combined pile.

Most in the area burn large debris piles each year and I hope to put the "waste" to better use. Hugelkultur beds are definitely in our future and all the compost will certainly be put to good use.

I especially look forward to seeing the pile in the winter with snow on the ground and perhaps an uncovered compost pile due to heat.

Forerunner · #**3482** 01/09/15, 02:49 AM

If I were in your shoes, Gimpy, I would _want_ a chipper, while admitting to myself all the while that I didn't _need_ a chipper.

A man who composts brush need never worry that his work will be done tomorrow......

Just what are your summer and winter temperature averages and extremes, and rainfall average, out/up in that Oregon high desert ?

gimpyrancher · #**3483** 01/09/15, 03:16 PM

I own a smaller chipper but I think I'll end up either renting a large one or buying a used one.

But the branches will be useful in my hugelkultur beds.

Grapescott · #**3484** 01/22/15, 02:58 PM

Wow, just spent the better part of two weeks reading EVERY thread of EVERY page. Can't believe how much info on poo...and pee...
First of several questions- Tim, you da man! How'd your screen name originate?

Here's my back story: spent my 54 years living on postage size lots in NJ. Moved a couple years ago to 1/12 acres in the heart of the pinelands (zone 7a)... Tiny for yuz guys, but it is my paradise....
Been clearing the back 1/2 acre to plant veggies and to have some goats( arriving next month).
My 9to5 is in sales, some on the road and some from home- plenty of time to get one with the dirt...

Questions

Whats the real risk of a pile getting hot enough to become a fire hazard? There are days we are all out of the house all day with no one to monitor...

I've seen mention of shade being good- but how about complete shade? I've been scoping out potential pile sites and can utilize some shade areas if it would work.

My kid just moved her horse to a new stable- I've been sneaking around and see they have a slide off container filled with manure/shavings so I'd assume they pay to haul it away....been trying to hook up with barn manager and ask if I could help myself to the some of the giant pile on the ground...(was there on a 15 degree day and saw steam!!!) if I can get some to load (on my tiny harbor freight 4X8 trailer) should I take the time to dig in and haul the hot stuff or is just taking what's up front ok enough?

Same kid- starts a job at a bagel shop soon, are coffee grounds N or C? Gonna have her ask owner if grounds are spoken for....

Sister has a hair salon- hair is a good source of_______?

As I said I'm in sales, selling wine. On occasion clients return wine to me to credit the account. Typically the wine is return as bad, spoiled wine but not vinegary.... I issue credit then throw the bottles (and wine) in the garbage.....I now feel it can be composted, but for what purpose? Thought it may be a nice addition to a manure tea? At any given time I can have several (10/12) bottles sitting around in garage for disposal.

All for now....

Thank you HT for providing such a helpful forum, and thank you Tim- your passion and enthusiasm is infectious....I've always cummune when I'm in the yard, now I can put it to use... Did I mention that Tim is da man?

(Oh dear, I may have a man crush on him)...

DEKE01 · #**3485** 01/22/15, 06:09 PM

Welcome to extreme composting, Grape.

Hair and coffee are N materials. All good. Worms will love the coffee if you want to try vermicomposting.

Should you use old horse manure or fresh horse manure? YES

Get all you can of horse manure and bedding. It can be too hot to put direct on garden veggies, so allow it to go thru a good heat cycle. Other than that, it is hard to go wrong with manure. There is a very remote possibility the manure could harbor residual herbicides or wormers, but IMO, the possibility is so remote and for all practical matters impossible to detect.

Forerunner · #**3486** 01/22/15, 06:25 PM

Thanks, DEKE, for taking up for me while I was *ahem* just now hauling in about 17 tons of really soupy sale barn manure.

I think DEKE hit the highlights unless there are other specifics ?

My screen name..... well, it was a bold notion, I suppose, but I've undertaken many activities that lots of folks say we should all be doing for ourselves, you know.....self-sufficiency stuff that Grandpop of yesteryear just took for granted.

So, it was either Latecomer, or Forerunner.......and I chose the latter.

ETA......could you accumulate that old wine in glass carboys and see if it would ever go to vinegar ?
I know some of that stuff has chemical inhibitors against such bacterial activity, but do they all ?

Otherwise, save it for stuff like New Years and birthdays and pour it over the piles for those occasions.
I don't know about other's experiences, but my red wriggles are PARTY animals !

DEKE01 · #**3487** 01/22/15, 07:33 PM

FR - 17 TONS!!! Well done Mr. Poopy Pants.

Grapes - sorry, I missed your Q on wine the first reading. Good question and something I had never considered before, mostly because we virtually never drink in our house. I wondered if the alcohol would kill more of your bacteria than it would help. So that got me reading about 20 different sites. I couldn't find any university extension sites with scientific data to prove beer and wine are good, but there were lots of folks extolling its virtues. I can't find any negatives on using wine and beer unless you have a very wet pile that can't take any more liquids. So that would not be an alcohol problem but the water portion of the wine could be enough to make your pile go rancid and anaerobic.

But I think that is mostly a theoretical problem, not a real one. We get 60 inches of rain a year and sometimes that is measured in 5 - 6 inches a day and I've never had a problem with one of my piles getting rancid. Maybe up north with a heavy snow load melting in the pile for a month or so, that might be a bad time to add wine.

Several of the sites I read actually recommended beer and wine, but beer more so, as a compost activator. Apparently the sugars in the beverages make the desirable micro party animals fat and fertile, in a really good mood for procreation, IOW it's not much different than with people.

Grapescott · #**3488** 01/22/15, 08:01 PM

Dekes ..... The pile of old poo from our last horse farm developed a crusty outter shell that could have used some moisture... Maybe I can dump some vino there to see.. It's a teeny pile..(sorry Tim).... Enclosed in a four by pallet structure..

All that said..gents.... I'm a bit concerned when the weather turns to summer here in The northeast that I don't let my future piles setting all of south jersey aflame!!!!

Scott

Forerunner · #**3489** 01/22/15, 08:24 PM

In all my experience with compost, I've never seen any hint of a tendency to combustion.

Simply ensuring adequate moisture assuages my already minuscule concerns.

DEKE........ just the other day, I was admonishing an acquaintance in that a man should never mess with a fellow who can take a Ten Ton S*** when and wherever he chooses (in reference to my heavy semi-axle dump trailer and a bit of a local feud in the works over here)

.

YamahaRick · #**3490** 01/22/15, 08:29 PM

I finally had a chance to visit this guy's farm. His primary focus is worms, but the castings/compost are becoming a larger aspect of his operation (from a revenue standpoint).

Here is a 2012 video from the Georgia Farm Bureau - it's how I learned of him:

It was late in the day when I was there, so my pics are not that great. But I hope to either emulate his operation (to a degree), or be a regular buyer of his compost.

DEKE01 · #**3491** 01/22/15, 08:52 PM

Grapes - I've had big piles, 60' x 30' x 12' high and never saw a hint of combustion. That big one was all pine wood, pine straw, no manure, no added moisture. Other piles nearly as big with the same pines but tons of manure and bedding added, no added moisture, no fire problems. Big pine piles covered in dirt, no fires. I've had all manure/bedding piles, mixed piles, small piles, dead animal piles, I can't make fire.

Everything I've read on compost fires was it takes really big, very dry piles, containing hay or straw, and enclosed in some walled system that prevented air flow.

DEKE01 · #**3492** 01/22/15, 08:55 PM

FR, with your penchant for getting yourself into deep sheet, it is good that you have learned to enjoy it.

Forerunner · #**3493** 01/22/15, 10:04 PM

Contentment is a choice.

.

Forerunner · #**3494** 01/22/15, 10:13 PM

Wow, Yamaha......... Kinda like Forest Gump meets Joel Salatin meets Mr. Green Jeans !!

All those wrigglers........

Grapescott · #**3495** 01/23/15, 07:31 AM

Thanks guys for setting straight my misconception about fire worries...

So let me get this right- say wifey cooks up a chicken roaster, we carve it up for the week, I can take the balance and bury it a couple feet under (in) my pile and my four pups ain't gonna mess with it? From what I've read it appears and odors are contained

Forerunner · #**3496** 01/23/15, 08:30 AM

Yup. Meat is no problem if buried in the pile deep enough.

The carbon cover is rather key, as well.....for the fact that it absorbs and eliminates odor.

What is your best carbon source out there ?

Grapescott · #**3497** 01/23/15, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forerunner

What is your best carbon source out there ?

Oak leaves? And pine needles......and bark from firewood stacks...

Even though we live in the pinelands this area is unique because of the over abundance of oak trees... Soo many trees in fact ,please sir, answer for me my question about shade piles? Would building piles in dense shade still get them cooking?

Forerunner · #**3498** 01/23/15, 09:58 AM

Oh, absolutely.

Shade is far more conducive to happy microbes, moisture retention, non-leeching of surface nutrients, etc. than ever full sun......but then a good carbon cover will protect from sunlight, as well.

To answer your question simply, you can compost in the dark and the microbes wouldn't know it.

SmokeEater2 · #**3499** 01/23/15, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapescott

Oak leaves? And pine needles......and bark from firewood stacks...

Even though we live in the pinelands this area is unique because of the over abundance of oak trees... Soo many trees in fact ,please sir, answer for me my question about shade piles? Would building piles in dense shade still get them cooking?

Oak leaves are my main source of carbon here. I'm blessed with an enormous amount of them every fall,To the point that I'm almost short of nitrogen until grass cutting season rolls around.

Until then I'm scraping by on every smidgen of manure I can find.

Grapescott · #**3500** 01/23/15, 04:33 PM

Well- seems I can source some poo from the farm....that container is the six foot tall version....that pile is over seven feet tall....